Banners

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Banners

Post by stockwellpete » Sun Jun 02, 2019 9:32 am

I am doing a series of Anglo-Saxon and Viking scenarios and I want the army banners to have consistent colours throughout. My preferences are . . .

Anglo-Saxon - red
Viking - black
Irish - green

Is it possible to do this? If so, how is it done please? All the scenarios are for multi-player only.

In the Brunanburh scenario the Vikings have Alba (Scottish) and Strathclyde Welsh allies. Am I able to give them separate colours for their banners or would they have to be the same as the Vikings who were the senior contingent in their army?

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Re: Banners

Post by rbodleyscott » Sun Jun 02, 2019 9:46 am

stockwellpete wrote:
Sun Jun 02, 2019 9:32 am
I am doing a series of Anglo-Saxon and Viking scenarios and I want the army banners to have consistent colours throughout. My preferences are . . .

Anglo-Saxon - red
Viking - black
Irish - green

Is it possible to do this? If so, how is it done please? All the scenarios are for multi-player only.
Firstly there is no way to script a change of banner colour, and there are currently no black banners in the vanilla game.

So to do this, you would need to put edited versions of the vanilla banner textures in /Data/Battle/Banners in your user Campaign folder. If you don't want to edit textures yourself, you might be able to find some semi-suitable ones in Paul's TT mod. Obviously there are likely to be some more suitable ones once Paul extends TT Mod to include the Dark Age period.

Also, all of the above nations share the same pair of (side0 and side1) banners in the vanilla game, so you would need to change the banner assignments for those side IDs in a clone of BannerSideIDs.txt in your user campaign main folder.
In the Brunanburh scenario the Vikings have Alba (Scottish) and Strathclyde Welsh allies. Am I able to give them separate colours for their banners or would they have to be the same as the Vikings who were the senior contingent in their army?
No, the whole army has to have the same banner.
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Re: Banners

Post by stockwellpete » Sun Jun 02, 2019 10:16 am

rbodleyscott wrote:
Sun Jun 02, 2019 9:46 am
So to do this, you would need to put edited versions of the vanilla banner textures in /Data/Battle/Banners in your user Campaign folder. If you don't want to do edit textures yourself, you might be able to find some semi-suitable ones in Paul's TT mod. Also, all of the above nations share the same pair of (side0 and side1) banners in the vanilla game, so you would need to change the banner assignments to those side IDs in a clone of BannerSideIDs.txt in your user campaign main folder
OK. So it is possible to do what I would like to do. I have no idea how to start editing though (I have found the /Data/Battle/Banners folder). I also see there are a number of posts in the modding section about banners but that also seems very complicated. So I am bound to mess this up. Maybe Paul when he reads this post might be able to suggest some suitable flags from his TT mod?

Paul, for starters, if we take my Ethandun 878 MP scenario - currently the Anglo-Saxons have yellow banners and the Vikings have blue banners and I want to change them to red and black respectively. So what do I do please?

In due course, I will also need designated colours for Mercia, Northumbria, Gwynedd (and other Welsh polities) and maybe East Anglia and Kent - so it is worth me learning how to do this.

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Re: Banners

Post by Paul59 » Sun Jun 02, 2019 2:14 pm

stockwellpete wrote:
Sun Jun 02, 2019 10:16 am
rbodleyscott wrote:
Sun Jun 02, 2019 9:46 am
So to do this, you would need to put edited versions of the vanilla banner textures in /Data/Battle/Banners in your user Campaign folder. If you don't want to do edit textures yourself, you might be able to find some semi-suitable ones in Paul's TT mod. Also, all of the above nations share the same pair of (side0 and side1) banners in the vanilla game, so you would need to change the banner assignments to those side IDs in a clone of BannerSideIDs.txt in your user campaign main folder
OK. So it is possible to do what I would like to do. I have no idea how to start editing though (I have found the /Data/Battle/Banners folder). I also see there are a number of posts in the modding section about banners but that also seems very complicated. So I am bound to mess this up. Maybe Paul when he reads this post might be able to suggest some suitable flags from his TT mod?

Paul, for starters, if we take my Ethandun 878 MP scenario - currently the Anglo-Saxons have yellow banners and the Vikings have blue banners and I want to change them to red and black respectively. So what do I do please?

In due course, I will also need designated colours for Mercia, Northumbria, Gwynedd (and other Welsh polities) and maybe East Anglia and Kent - so it is worth me learning how to do this.
Hi Pete,

Editing the banners does seem very complicated, but like many things, it is quite easy once you understand it.

For what you want to achieve there is not much work that needs to be done. There are already several banners in the TT Mod that are perfect for want you want to do. They (and their models) just need to renumbered.

You don't need to learn how to create your own banners, that is hard, but parts one and three of the Banner Creation Guides will tell you all you need to work out how to renumber existing banner sets.

Banner Creation Guide 1:

viewtopic.php?f=492&t=88649

Banner Creation Guide 3:

viewtopic.php?f=492&t=88651


If you check the flag usage.txt file in the TT Mod you will see a number of banner sets that might be useful:

26 27 Anglo Saxon (26 is red, and 27 is blue)
28 29 Romano British/Breton
30 31 Picts
70 71 Welsh
72 73 Irish (72 is yellow, and 73 is green)

Unfortunately I don't have a black Viking flag in the TT Mod, but I will quickly make one for you. The Hun banner can be adapted easily.

So to always give the Anglo Saxons red banners, you take the banner number 26 from the TT Mod and renumber as 04 AND 05.

To always give the Irish Green banners, you take banner number 73 and renumber it as 02 AND 03. In the vanilla game these are the banner numbers for Carthage etc, and you will not be needing them! But as the Carthaginian banners have an inappropriate symbol on the flag pole, you will need to take the Barbarian banner models (4 and 5), copy and renumber them 02 and 03. You will also need to delete the Irish sidename number (98) from it's current positions in the BannerSideIDs.txt and enter it under BANNER3 and BANNER4. Unfortunately, you will also have to modify the internal banner assignments using the Archon tool.

Similarly for the Vikings, you can renumber the new Viking banner as 06 and 07, in the vanilla game those are Greek banners. Again, you will need to take the Barbarian banner models (4 and 5), copy and renumber them 06 and 07. You will also need to delete the Viking sidename number (168) from it's current positions in the BannerSideIDs.txt and enter it under BANNER7 and BANNER8. Unfortunately, you will also have to modify the internal banner assignments using the Archon tool.

To avoid any long banner issues, you will also need to copy into your modded banner folder all the models and Normal and Spec textures for the banner numbers that you are using. Even though we may not have modified them.

Easy!

Fortunately, I have done all this work for you while I typed up this reply!

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/ogro6d0k6j0z ... c3Mba?dl=0

I've not tested it, so let me know if anything does not work.

cheers

Paul
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Re: Banners

Post by stockwellpete » Sun Jun 02, 2019 2:57 pm

Thanks for taking the time to do all this, Paul, but unfortunately I still haven't got the faintest idea of what I am meant to do. It sounds like modding to me - and I thought we were not meant to alter our basic game (not that I have a clue how to do this). If I put TT mod banner numbers into my game what will that do? Will all games I play with Vikings and Irish have black and green flags in future? Will my game still be compatible with other players' default versions?

Where do I put these Dropbox things you have sent me? Do I copy and paste them somewhere, or what? Sorry, but this is all way over my head.

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Re: Banners

Post by Paul59 » Sun Jun 02, 2019 3:04 pm

stockwellpete wrote:
Sun Jun 02, 2019 2:57 pm
Thanks for taking the time to do all this, Paul, but unfortunately I still haven't got the faintest idea of what I am meant to do. It sounds like modding to me - and I thought we were not meant to alter our basic game (not that I have a clue how to do this). If I put TT mod banner numbers into my game what will that do? Will all games I play with Vikings and Irish have black and green flags in future? Will my game still be compatible with other players' default versions?

Where do I put these Dropbox things you have sent me? Do I copy and paste them somewhere, or what? Sorry, but this is all way over my head.
You do not touch your main game install!

Everything I sent you goes in your scenario folder that you create. The modded banners will only affect scenarios created within that folder.
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Re: Banners

Post by stockwellpete » Sun Jun 02, 2019 3:17 pm

So this BannerSideIDs.txt that you have sent me by Dropbox, how do I put it in my Scenario folder? Do I create a new folder in there and call it BannerSideIDs.text and then copy and paste the data into there? And there is something called Data in the Dropbox link, which seems to be of a completely different structure. What is it and how do I put that in my scenario folder? And then there is New Text Document.txt, which seems to be empty. What is that for? Once I have got these three items sorted out is there anything else I need to do?

Which banners are changed by these Dropbox items? Just the Anglo-Saxons, Vikings and Irish?

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Re: Banners

Post by Paul59 » Sun Jun 02, 2019 3:46 pm

stockwellpete wrote:
Sun Jun 02, 2019 3:17 pm
So this BannerSideIDs.txt that you have sent me by Dropbox, how do I put it in my Scenario folder? Do I create a new folder in there and call it BannerSideIDs.text and then copy and paste the data into there? And there is something called Data in the Dropbox link, which seems to be of a completely different structure. What is it and how do I put that in my scenario folder? And then there is New Text Document.txt, which seems to be empty. What is that for? Once I have got these three items sorted out is there anything else I need to do?

Which banners are changed by these Dropbox items? Just the Anglo-Saxons, Vikings and Irish?
All you do is copy the Data folder and the BannerSideIDs.txt into your scenario folder. That's all.

The Data folder contains all the models and textures for the new banners. Everything in the Data folder is in the correct file structure, you don't need to muck about with it at all.

Don't worry about the New Text Document.txt, just delete it. I was using it to compose my forum post, but forgot to delete it from the folder.

You don't need to do anything else, just carry on designing your scenarios.

What I have given you only changes the banners for the Anglo-Saxons, Vikings, and Irish. But you must use the default Sidenumbers for those factions.

The new banners might not show up in the Editor, as the new Editor banner system is very basic. But they should show when you open the scenario to play.
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Re: Banners

Post by Paul59 » Sun Jun 02, 2019 3:51 pm

If you are still not sure, this is how the Data folder and BannerSideIDs.txt look when they are correctly placed in a scenario folder, in this case jomni's Silk Road mod:

Image


cheers

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Re: Banners

Post by stockwellpete » Sun Jun 02, 2019 4:03 pm

Paul59 wrote:
Sun Jun 02, 2019 3:46 pm

All you do is copy the Data folder and the BannerSideIDs.txt into your scenario folder. That's all.
But I cannot even do this. If I click on your Dropbox link I get a page called "Pete's Scenario" and it has three items there - BannerSideIDs.txt, Data and New Text Document.txt. If I right-click on BannerSideIDS.txt I get no option to copy. If I left-click on it it opens and shows all the banners. I can copy this data onto a WordPad document. When I go to save it I am told I will lose the formatting because I am using a text only format. I don't know which other format to use. So I am stuck.

I cannot see any way at all to copy the Data item. I have no idea how to handle these DropBox items.

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Re: Banners

Post by Paul59 » Sun Jun 02, 2019 4:51 pm

stockwellpete wrote:
Sun Jun 02, 2019 4:03 pm
Paul59 wrote:
Sun Jun 02, 2019 3:46 pm

All you do is copy the Data folder and the BannerSideIDs.txt into your scenario folder. That's all.
But I cannot even do this. If I click on your Dropbox link I get a page called "Pete's Scenario" and it has three items there - BannerSideIDs.txt, Data and New Text Document.txt. If I right-click on BannerSideIDS.txt I get no option to copy. If I left-click on it it opens and shows all the banners. I can copy this data onto a WordPad document. When I go to save it I am told I will lose the formatting because I am using a text only format. I don't know which other format to use. So I am stuck.

I cannot see any way at all to copy the Data item. I have no idea how to handle these DropBox items.
Click on the Dropbox link, here it is again:

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/ogro6d0k6j0z ... c3Mba?dl=0

This will take you to the Dropbox page. You should be able to select the Data folder and the BannerSideIDs.txt by ticking a box to the left of each line, if you hover the mouse there it should appear.

When these two items are selected, you should have a Download button on the right hand side of the page. Click on it.

Petes Scenario folder should then download onto your PC. It will probably be in your Downloads folder.

It will be a zipped file, so you will then have to extract it (using WinZip or WinRAR, or something similar). You will then have the Data and BannerSideIDs.txt and you copy them into your scenario folder.

I am sorry Pete, I assumed you knew how to do this stuff. If you can't manage the Dropbox link I can put up the unzipped files on a mediafire link.
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Re: Banners

Post by stockwellpete » Sun Jun 02, 2019 5:55 pm

Paul59 wrote:
Sun Jun 02, 2019 4:51 pm

Click on the Dropbox link, here it is again:

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/ogro6d0k6j0z ... c3Mba?dl=0

This will take you to the Dropbox page. You should be able to select the Data folder and the BannerSideIDs.txt by ticking a box to the left of each line, if you hover the mouse there it should appear.

When these two items are selected, you should have a Download button on the right hand side of the page. Click on it.

Petes Scenario folder should then download onto your PC. It will probably be in your Downloads folder.

It will be a zipped file, so you will then have to extract it (using WinZip or WinRAR, or something similar). You will then have the Data and BannerSideIDs.txt and you copy them into your scenario folder.

I am sorry Pete, I assumed you knew how to do this stuff. If you can't manage the Dropbox link I can put up the unzipped files on a mediafire link.
Hovering to no avail I'm afraid. Nothing is happening. Could we try it by mediafire please?

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Re: Banners

Post by Paul59 » Sun Jun 02, 2019 6:04 pm

stockwellpete wrote:
Sun Jun 02, 2019 5:55 pm
Paul59 wrote:
Sun Jun 02, 2019 4:51 pm

Click on the Dropbox link, here it is again:

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/ogro6d0k6j0z ... c3Mba?dl=0

This will take you to the Dropbox page. You should be able to select the Data folder and the BannerSideIDs.txt by ticking a box to the left of each line, if you hover the mouse there it should appear.

When these two items are selected, you should have a Download button on the right hand side of the page. Click on it.

Petes Scenario folder should then download onto your PC. It will probably be in your Downloads folder.

It will be a zipped file, so you will then have to extract it (using WinZip or WinRAR, or something similar). You will then have the Data and BannerSideIDs.txt and you copy them into your scenario folder.

I am sorry Pete, I assumed you knew how to do this stuff. If you can't manage the Dropbox link I can put up the unzipped files on a mediafire link.
Hovering to no avail I'm afraid. Nothing is happening. Could we try it by mediafire please?
This is where the tick box hides, at least when it displays on my PC;

Image

And after I select the BannerSideIDs.txt the Download button appears in a blue box on the left:

Image

If that does not help I will put up a Mediafire link.

cheers

Paul
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Re: Banners

Post by stockwellpete » Sun Jun 02, 2019 6:28 pm

I am not on a page like that at all, Paul. I am obviously not doing something but I don't know what. Can we try MediaFire please? If I cannot make that work then I am going to give up. Making scenarios shouldn't be this difficult. With FOG1 it wasn't. I am 64 now and will probably be dead soon - so I have got better things to do with my time. :lol:

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Re: Banners

Post by Paul59 » Sun Jun 02, 2019 6:43 pm

stockwellpete wrote:
Sun Jun 02, 2019 6:28 pm
I am not on a page like that at all, Paul. I am obviously not doing something but I don't know what. Can we try MediaFire please? If I cannot make that work then I am going to give up. Making scenarios shouldn't be this difficult. With FOG1 it wasn't. I am 64 now and will probably be dead soon - so I have got better things to do with my time. :lol:
Unfortunately Mediafire will not let me upload a folder, only individual files. So I have had to zip the folder, therefore you will have to extract it. But I am guessing that you would have extracted the TT Mod, so you should be okay with this one.

Here is the link:

http://www.mediafire.com/file/hqb3ptaav ... o.rar/file


cheers

Paul
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Re: Banners

Post by stockwellpete » Sun Jun 02, 2019 7:15 pm

Right, a bit of progress to report. I now have extracted it to the Ethandun 878 scenario. At the moment the folder is still called "Petes scenario" and it contains the two elements - a "Data" folder and a text document called "BannerSideIDs". What do I have to do now so that the game will read the new content?

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Re: Banners

Post by Paul59 » Sun Jun 02, 2019 7:50 pm

stockwellpete wrote:
Sun Jun 02, 2019 7:15 pm
Right, a bit of progress to report. I now have extracted it to the Ethandun 878 scenario. At the moment the folder is still called "Petes scenario" and it contains the two elements - a "Data" folder and a text document called "BannerSideIDs". What do I have to do now so that the game will read the new content?
Copy and paste the Data folder and the BannerSideIDs.txt from the Petes scenario folder so that they sit directly inside the Ethandun 878 scenario folder. Just like I showed you in the screenshot of the Silk Road Mod:

Image

Once you have done that you can delete the Petes Scenario folder, I was only using that to bundle up the two other files for you.
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Re: Banners

Post by stockwellpete » Mon Jun 03, 2019 6:47 pm

That has worked nicely, Paul. Can I use what you have sent me for Ethandun 878 (Anglo-Saxon v Viking) as a template for my other scenarios. I have the following not too far off completion now . . .

Brunanburh 937 - Anglo-Saxon v Viking (would the Ethandun banner stuff work for this scenario as well as I am using exactly the same army names, also would it work for Assandun 1016?)
Tara 980 - Viking v Irish
Maldon 991 - Viking v Anglo-Saxon
Assandun 1016 - Anglo-Saxon v Viking

and these just need play-testing . . .
Hatfield Chase 633 - Welsh v Anglo-Saxon (Northumbrians)
Heavenfield 634 - Welsh v Anglo-Saxon (Northumbrians)

and I have just started . . .
Maserfeld 641 - Anglo-Saxon (Northumbrians) v Anglo-Saxon (Mercians)


I think for the battles before 900 AD (roughly) I need to choose colours for the smaller Anglo-Saxon kingdoms, sometimes what are called "The Heptarchy". Maybe Wessex can still be red, but basically that red is for when the Anglo-Saxons start to think of themselves as English after the reigns of Alfred, Edward and Athelstan.

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Re: Banners

Post by Paul59 » Mon Jun 03, 2019 8:21 pm

As long as the Anglo-Saxons, Vikings and Irish use the standard sidenames and numbers the banners will work.

Are all these scenarios going to share the same folder? If not, you will need to paste my Data and BannerSideIDs.txt into the new folder.

I have not provided you with flags for the Welsh yet. Will the Welsh scenarios be in a seperate scenario folder? What banner colour were you thinking of? The two TT Mod Welsh banners are red and green, both decorated with an ornate golden Celtic cross.

There are other suitable TT Mod flags for the smaller Anglo-Saxon kingdoms. The ones I am thinking of are:

Blue with a boar design
Purple and Cream with a raven design
Green and Cream with a raven design
Red and Cream with a raven design
Yellow with a longboat design

There maybe a few others, such as the more Christian designs I use for the sub Romans.

You just need to let me know what sidenumbers you will use for these kingdoms, and what banners you want them to have.
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Re: Banners

Post by rbodleyscott » Tue Jun 04, 2019 7:06 am

Paul59 wrote:
Mon Jun 03, 2019 8:21 pm
Are all these scenarios going to share the same folder? If not, you will need to paste my Data and BannerSideIDs.txt into the new folder.
With regard to this, I think it would be sensible if they did all share the same folder. Or at least, groups of related scenarios could share a folder.
Richard Bodley Scott

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