The editor : somethings has no sens, in my opinion...

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welk
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The editor : somethings has no sens, in my opinion...

Post by welk » Thu Jan 14, 2010 7:33 pm

One thing has no sens in the editor, at my point of view : why have you included an editor that allows not to edit all the parameters of units ?! It has simply no sense...

i.e : Impossible to change the number of VP of units : each time, the routine retablish the initial value. And it is the same for a great number of parameters : range weapons, combinations of weapons, etc. It's very frustrating for modding or creating new units : all parameters would be able to be changed in freedom by players.

The more I play this game, the more I love it, it's a pity to not be able to change every thing I want in the editor. Please, mister Slitherine, give us total freedom in the editor.

IainMcNeil
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Post by IainMcNeil » Fri Jan 15, 2010 10:27 am

The editor allows you to create new scenarios - it is not intedned as a way to change teh basic game behaviour. If you could change ranges of weapons people would need to learn new rules for new scenarios and this is absolutely not what we want :) This is by design.

welk
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Post by welk » Fri Jan 15, 2010 6:08 pm

Yes, I undestandt what you mean. :D

So, I will use some tips to create my "Napoleonic mod" with the actual Fog, waiting the official "Napoleonic Field of Glory" : a great hope.

I think it will be probably for 2012/2013 ? Any date ? 8)

Here are some infantry, cavalry and arty icon in work :
Image

Examinondas
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Post by Examinondas » Sat Jan 16, 2010 12:11 am

iainmcneil wrote:The editor allows you to create new scenarios - it is not intedned as a way to change teh basic game behaviour. If you could change ranges of weapons people would need to learn new rules for new scenarios and this is absolutely not what we want :) This is by design.
But we could in effect change the hex scale just changing the fire ranges and movement distances (and unit strength, but that is already possible). That would be great for creating scenarios of very small or very large battles.

Also, thanks to all the information displayed on the screen (the symbols on top of the allowed target units, and the brighter colour of the hexes allowed for movement), the player would not really need to learn anything new.

ScipioTerra
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Post by ScipioTerra » Sat Jan 16, 2010 3:20 pm

Oh my gosh.

Napoleonics are great. What I don't understand is: Wiith Histwar: Les Grognards about to be released, why would anyone bother to do that?

welk
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Post by welk » Sat Jan 16, 2010 7:13 pm

After reflexion, I think that mister Slitherine do error when he limits the editor functions.

This game and the serie will be probably a "hit game", and the public of the game will be more larger than the "figurinists". Myself, I never played with figurins, and I will never play with it, I never read the Fog board rules and I will never read it : I will just play (with lot of fun) in Fog computer, using the "on game help".

Limitation of freedom in the editor will probably conduct players who love modding their games to not work on this game, and just do little scenarios battles, not large projects. But more a game is "worked-modded", more longer is the life of this game. I think that Slitherine should offer to players an option : to play with "official parameters" or to play "free", with personal parameters. All PC games with editor allow that sort of possibility, it wil be a disadventage for the game to take another way. I think that "design considerations" will not be a good choice for the life of the editor-game. This game is very GREAT, I think Slitherine underestimate the possibility of a larger public in wargamer's world for this game.

In particular, modifications in editor would allow to change the scale of battles, and modifications in weapons combinations would allow players to make exprimentations : players love that sort of things, and to not have the possibility to do their own creations with the game is a frustration (new units, new scale for battles, new weapons combinations,etc.)

Mister Slitherine, your game is GREAT : so, you must think GREAT :twisted:

welk
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Post by welk » Sun Jan 17, 2010 1:48 pm

ScipioTerra wrote:Oh my gosh.

Napoleonics are great. What I don't understand is: Wiith Histwar: Les Grognards about to be released, why would anyone bother to do that?
Perhaps could you say : :twisted:

"Oh my gosh.
Field of Glory "ancient battles" is great. What I don't understand is : With Rome total war released, why would anyone bother to do that? "

The 2 kind of games are simply not in same category : too differents. Field of Glory Napolenic would be a very good napoleonic simulation, I hope for release of this game by Slitherine one day.

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Post by Paisley » Sun Jan 17, 2010 2:12 pm

Well for napoleonics, just rate muskets as javelins (2 hex range) and rifles as bows. Artillery will possibly be covered by ranges for ancient artillery. The biggest problem I can see is that changing formation (line, column, square) is absolutely key to Napoleonics, and FoG has no mechanism to model that (and neither does it need one for what it's designed to do). Another problem is melee was very uncommon (as opposed to routing from a charging enemy whose morale had been shattered by fire), whereas in FoG it is rightly, very common.

welk
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Post by welk » Sun Jan 17, 2010 3:11 pm

Yes, formations are a big problem : but the mod is just for waiting "Fog Napoleonic" and to give a look of what this game could be.

Concerning pb of melee and infantry range fire : the pb does not occurs in the mod because the scale is very large : 1 hex = 300 m. So, for infantry, fire and melee are confused in the same notion : infantry attack (I have adapted the sounds : fire and combat). This large scale will allow to do Napoleonic battles on large maps with large movements and tactical operations (50 x 50 hex = 15 km x 15 km)

Arty has in Fog 1.03 4 (Horse arty) or 5 (foot arty) range fire = 1500 m and 1200 m. The theorical fire range of guns in this time was approx. 2000 m but the efficace range was approx 1700/1900 and more efficace range approx 1500/1600 m. On the other hand, other munitions than cannonball had shorter ranges (800/900m for Canniste = mitraille (?) in french).

This mod will be a way to wait Field of Glory Napoleonic war : I know that the actual Fog ancient system is not a perfect simulation for this time but something like "Napoleonic Fog" is better than nothing 8)

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The editor : somethings has no sens, in my opinion...

Post by Hoplite1963 » Sun Jan 17, 2010 6:17 pm

I think that there is a fine balance to be struck here between enhancing the attractiveness of the game by making it modable and not endangering the chances of getting Slitherine to do all the expansion packs and modules etc we would like to see. Modders after all work for free while commercial games company’s cannot.

Many of those of us who prefer a turn based approach have waited for years for something like this game to come out, as opposed to all those real time games that we don’t want to play. So personally I take the view that the more profitable it is, the more likely Slitherine are to do all the expansion packs and hopefully more games on the same lines such as a renaissance title. :?:

welk
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Post by welk » Wed Jan 20, 2010 2:36 pm

One other thing I do not understandt in the editor : PV (victory points) of each unit appears in the modification box but... you can not modify them :roll: : the routine restablish always the original paremeters ! Grrrr...

I thing that Mister Slitherine would have good inspiration for the life of game if in the future, he would offer to players option :
1/ First choice, to play strictly following the boardrules = in this case, no modification of essential parameters in editor
2/ Second choice (a special button in the editor = in "preference editor") = to play "free" : changes = allowed in editor, without restruction. This option would be great for "PC wargamer players", designers and modders who will play this game just "on PC" without interest for detailled "figurin rules".

This game is the best funny game I have bought for a long time, and it will be played, I think, by lot of players who have never played with figurins and who will never play with. Then, why have a retrictive policy for the editor ?This kind of "PC players" will be disappointed to not be able to modify their game as they want to do.

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