Apparently, I've been removed from the tournament. Why?

Field of Glory II is a turn-based tactical game set during the Rise of Rome from 280 BC to 25 BC.
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kraff
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Apparently, I've been removed from the tournament. Why?

Post by kraff » Mon Jul 01, 2019 5:33 pm

Hello!

I'd like to kindly ask for explanation on why have I been removed from the ongoing tournament? I suspect that's because I've been assessed as inactive. But this hasn't been the case.

But let's start from the beginning: the second round started on 17th of June. I didn't have a proper moment to make my move until last Monday. Since then I was ready to dedicate most of my free time and that's what I was doing. Unfortunately for me, my opponent wasn't doing the same for this or another reason, and we were exchanging moves in frequency of around one turn per player per day. I played my last turn on Thursday. He didn't respond. It seems he waited me out. I don't judge him. I did read the rules and I did accept that most likely I will get some penalty.

But today I've learned I'm not in the tournament anymore. And I've learned that from the score board. I haven't received any closing email (which is normally send by the system when the game is over).

I would appreciate if anyone explained what has actually happened. It really is a shame that I can't participate in the following rounds given that I haven't actually been inactive.

melm
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Re: Apparently, I've been removed from the tournament. Why?

Post by melm » Mon Jul 01, 2019 6:03 pm

I guess you scored zero point and the turn in your tray is longer than your opponent's. If these two criteria are met, the player will be removed from the list. If you scored a single point, then you won't be removed. I can feel your pain that these criteria punish people who want to spare a certain amount of time for frequent turn-exchange but afk for some time. But rule is rule.

kraff
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Re: Apparently, I've been removed from the tournament. Why?

Post by kraff » Mon Jul 01, 2019 6:38 pm

Thank you very much for reply.

I've read the rules again and can't find any explicit or implicit information that the combination of the two criteria you mentioned disqualifies a player.

http://www.slitherine.com/tournaments/r ... terStatus=

Where can I find such information?

melm
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Re: Apparently, I've been removed from the tournament. Why?

Post by melm » Mon Jul 01, 2019 6:49 pm

Perhaps I am wrong after I read this
http://www.slitherine.com/forum/viewtop ... 77&t=91817
f the timed-out player has played less than 6 turns, he will not be included in the draw for the next round. This is to prevent someone else’s enjoyment being spoiled by being drawn against someone who has apparently dropped out of the tournament.
So it may be 6-turn threshold.

kraff
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Re: Apparently, I've been removed from the tournament. Why?

Post by kraff » Mon Jul 01, 2019 7:29 pm

Again, thank you very much for response.

However, if it's the 6-turn threshold, then the validation doesn't work, because the last two emails I got from the system invited me to play 7th and 8th turn respectively, which I did play (after those my opponent stopped playing). I can present screenshots of the emails as proof.

melm
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Re: Apparently, I've been removed from the tournament. Why?

Post by melm » Mon Jul 01, 2019 8:07 pm

I feel sorry to say that the turn-counting in email also counts the opponent's turn. So 7th turn actually is the 4th turn. You can see you don't have two successive numbers for one match. 7th and 8th turn are for two matches.

kraff
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Re: Apparently, I've been removed from the tournament. Why?

Post by kraff » Mon Jul 01, 2019 8:39 pm

Ah, yes, I see now.

Alright, then it seems that because I played less than 6 turns I have been considered a drop out from the tournament. I find that very very strange. The limit is obviously arbitrary, and the check is made blindly and with no consideration to the actual situation (at no time during last two weeks I was actually a drop out), and as a customer - and a regular one, I have to say - I feel like I've just been punished for both being a working adult person and for my opponent being just the same. How did I spoil the game for anyone, if my opponent got 150 points basically for free and I got zero as a penalty? Isn't that enough?

Well, not always I can afford the time to play since day one. And I'm sure I'm not the only one who was treated so kindly by an automated script. Please, Matrix Games / Slitherine, consider introducing a different checking system, because the current one is - to put it simply - blatantly unjust.

rbodleyscott
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Re: Apparently, I've been removed from the tournament. Why?

Post by rbodleyscott » Tue Jul 02, 2019 7:18 am

kraff wrote:
Mon Jul 01, 2019 8:39 pm
Ah, yes, I see now.

Alright, then it seems that because I played less than 6 turns I have been considered a drop out from the tournament. I find that very very strange. The limit is obviously arbitrary, and the check is made blindly and with no consideration to the actual situation (at no time during last two weeks I was actually a drop out), and as a customer - and a regular one, I have to say - I feel like I've just been punished for both being a working adult person and for my opponent being just the same. How did I spoil the game for anyone, if my opponent got 150 points basically for free and I got zero as a penalty? Isn't that enough?

Well, not always I can afford the time to play since day one. And I'm sure I'm not the only one who was treated so kindly by an automated script. Please, Matrix Games / Slitherine, consider introducing a different checking system, because the current one is - to put it simply - blatantly unjust.
I am sorry that you feel this way.

The purpose of dropping players who timed out (were the slower player) in games after playing less than 6 turns is to avoid the same thing occurring in their next game, which would spoil the game for their next opponent. For most people, scoring 150 points is no consolation for effectively not getting a game.

The cut off point is arbitrary, but it is an automated computerised system so there has to be a cut-off point which will inevitably be arbitrary and cannot take into account the personal circumstances of the dropped out player.
Richard Bodley Scott

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Karvon
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Re: Apparently, I've been removed from the tournament. Why?

Post by Karvon » Tue Jul 02, 2019 8:18 am

I've never considered signing up for the automated tourneys precisely because the time restraints. While some days I could do multiple moves, assuming my opponent happens to be free, there are others where I'm simply too busy with family and work. On the average, I don't think I could finish games at the automated tourney pace. The digital league time limits works for me, so that's what I stick to.

devoncop
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Re: Apparently, I've been removed from the tournament. Why?

Post by devoncop » Tue Jul 02, 2019 9:04 am

Whilst I sympathise with Kaff for being removed I have to say that I agree fully with the time limit system as it is.
By removing discretion it may appear harsh to some but it is clear, applied equally to all and most importantly allows tournaments to progress at a reasonable rate.

Let's be reasonable here. A turn in FoG2 takes me around 10 minutes maximum. I am not an expert at all but a reasonable player so it is not like I am just throwing units around carelessly.

One turn a day is hardly onerous even for someone working full time I would have thought unless working away. If I was in holiday for 2 weeks I would not expect a tournament to accommodate that so would not enter that particular one.

There may be Players that are put off entering because of the requirements but there are many others looking for fast flowing games where the plans made can be remembered from turn to turn who would avoid such tournaments of the limits were increased further.

I like to play opponents who can usually make a turn every 48 hours as a minimum and I suspect many players are the same.

We are all different though and I just thought I should weigh in with a different perspective.

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Re: Apparently, I've been removed from the tournament. Why?

Post by jomni » Tue Jul 02, 2019 12:07 pm

There should be an easy going tournament branch.

kraff
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Re: Apparently, I've been removed from the tournament. Why?

Post by kraff » Wed Jul 10, 2019 10:51 pm

@rbodleyscott, the system could very well take into account factors like drop/rise in activity of a player in any week of a tournament round. It's only a matter of programming it this way. Actually, anything would be better than simply checking how many rounds a player played. And why six is the limit, and not two, for example? I still feel it's a bloody shame to be kicked out like this, I was looking forward to take part in this tournament, I bought WatG the day it was released just to practice before the first round, I was quite invested in the first round, and now I feel I wasted my time. It was supposed to be fun, and ultimately it was not, and just because the player activity verification system works how it works. It would be really great if you could add a few more conditionals to the system.

@devoncop, I'm a freelancer, I worked long hours that week, so yes, it is onerous to play a game when you work for 12-16 hours a day for a week.

Anyway, for the last few days I've been playing some multiplayer battles with another guy, having fun, and tomorrow (actually today) Field of Glory: Empires will be released, and that's my dream come true.

rbodleyscott
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Re: Apparently, I've been removed from the tournament. Why?

Post by rbodleyscott » Thu Jul 11, 2019 6:13 am

kraff wrote:
Wed Jul 10, 2019 10:51 pm
Anyway, for the last few days I've been playing some multiplayer battles with another guy, having fun, and tomorrow (actually today) Field of Glory: Empires will be released, and that's my dream come true.
I hope you enjoy it.
Richard Bodley Scott

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