MULTIPLAYER CHEATING

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nucleus
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MULTIPLAYER CHEATING

Post by nucleus » Fri Dec 11, 2015 4:01 pm

If you find yourself in a game with an incredibly bad string of luck there is an explanation. I discovered this after I was essentially wiped out by turn two. The game is fundamentally broken as it allows cheating in multiplayer. In fact the same cheat works in single-player as well if you'd like to test it.

If you get a roll you don't like, all you have to do is back out of the game before hitting proceed. This clears the dice register from memory and allows you to reload the scenario and play the turn again until you get a roll you like, or infinitely. Of course a savvy cheater will not make the mistake my opponent did, and will use the cheat sparingly so as not to appear to be cheating. But this is such a blatant failure that it renders the game completely untrustworthy. You can never be sure if it's a real roll or not.

This has been reported to Slitherine - by PM to Daniele on 23 Nov 2015 20:51. Being that it's been 3 weeks with no response I felt it necessary to make this a public matter.

pipfromslitherine
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Re: MULTIPLAYER CHEATING

Post by pipfromslitherine » Fri Dec 11, 2015 4:05 pm

Reloading turns is logged on the server and thus allows us to take action against cheaters.

Cheers

Pip
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Strider
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Re: MULTIPLAYER CHEATING

Post by Strider » Fri Dec 11, 2015 7:14 pm

If you think someone's cheated you then make a note of the name and never accept a challenge from them again.

It would be cool if the challenge screen also listed a person "replay turn" count....

ichirou989
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Re: MULTIPLAYER CHEATING

Post by ichirou989 » Fri Dec 11, 2015 8:27 pm

Strider wrote:If you think someone's cheated you then make a note of the name and never accept a challenge from them again.

It would be cool if the challenge screen also listed a person "replay turn" count....
A couple of things to consider then. First a blacklist might be a good thing to add to the game so that you can internally keep track of such players. Also, the Civilization series had this problem/feature with the die rolls since its beginning. However in the more recent releases they also added an option to make the game not change the die rolls between save/loads by using a fixed seed I believe.

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Re: MULTIPLAYER CHEATING

Post by Waltero » Thu Dec 17, 2015 2:56 am

Of course you are going to have players reload (natch). I do not believe that Slitherine can stop this nor can they effectively regulate such behavior. Your just going to have to live with it for now (possibly forever). Any chance this game might add a reload feature (Indicating how many times a game turn has been reloaded)?

Note: could somebody delete all my current games? All the games on my list have been stagnant for months (waiting for opponent).

Thanks
Walter

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Re: MULTIPLAYER CHEATING

Post by IainMcNeil » Thu Dec 17, 2015 3:37 pm

As Phil says - the server tracks it and notifies an admin and your account is suspended if you are cheating. Its very easy to see. The server delivers you your turn. Unless you upload your turn to the server before requesting it again, it flags it as this means the user has prevented the upload.

You can have bad luck and some people really don't like it but that's what happens with dice.

I'm not sure where we are with the Claim game button, but if this isn't in yet you can ask support to kill off any old games you want removed.

Waltero
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Re: MULTIPLAYER CHEATING

Post by Waltero » Mon Dec 21, 2015 8:44 pm

IainMcNeil wrote:As Phil says - the server tracks it and notifies an admin and your account is suspended if you are cheating. Its very easy to see. The server delivers you your turn. Unless you upload your turn to the server before requesting it again, it flags it as this means the user has prevented the upload.

You can have bad luck and some people really don't like it but that's what happens with dice.

I'm not sure where we are with the Claim game button, but if this isn't in yet you can ask support to kill off any old games you want removed.

I know you guys have your hands full; any chance you could put that "flag" on the game turn page?
Allowing players to report. I have reloaded many of my game turns (inadvertently) due to lag.
Of course 90% of them had negative (bad rolls) effect...at that point it pisses me off that the game allowed for that!
I can't help but think there are other situations that would allow game turn reloading.

To my understanding Slitherine will see a flag and assume cheating. If you allow the "cheaters" opponent to see a flag when a reload has occurred, they will know whether cheating has taken place or not. Personally, I would like to know if I am playing against a cheater or not.

You can have cheaters and some people really don't like it but that's what happens with pbem games.

MarvinC
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Re: MULTIPLAYER CHEATING

Post by MarvinC » Wed Jan 06, 2016 5:09 pm

I miss playing you. As you remember I lose most of the time.

Waltero
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Re: MULTIPLAYER CHEATING

Post by Waltero » Wed Jan 06, 2016 11:07 pm

MarvinC wrote:I miss playing you. As you remember I lose most of the time.
That's because I cheated :P

zakblood
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Re: MULTIPLAYER CHEATING

Post by zakblood » Thu Jan 07, 2016 5:30 am

Waltero wrote:
MarvinC wrote:I miss playing you. As you remember I lose most of the time.
That's because I cheated :P
i'm not sure why you tell everyone so often you cheat, for one it's nothing to be proud of, and in the end it's only a game so you only cheat yourself, matters little to me either way, or most really but it will catch up on you in the end and then it's a ban or nobody will play against you, not that you play any more anyway :cry:

CptAlatriste
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Re: MULTIPLAYER CHEATING

Post by CptAlatriste » Thu Jan 07, 2016 1:54 pm

Let`s hope Waltero make a joke... :)

Waltero
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Re: MULTIPLAYER CHEATING

Post by Waltero » Fri Jan 08, 2016 10:10 pm

zakblood_slith wrote:
Waltero wrote:
MarvinC wrote:I miss playing you. As you remember I lose most of the time.
That's because I cheated :P
i'm not sure why you tell everyone so often you cheat, for one it's nothing to be proud of, and in the end it's only a game so you only cheat yourself, matters little to me either way, or most really but it will catch up on you in the end and then it's a ban or nobody will play against you, not that you play any more anyway :cry:

Quote: the server tracks it and notifies an admin and your account is suspended if you are cheating. Its very easy to see.

Apparently it is not all that easy to see. Can a Moderator not find a cheat? Why would a Moderator assume cheat, where's is your back up? You are telling players to ignore any suspected cheating...yet you yourself...

VPaulus
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Re: MULTIPLAYER CHEATING

Post by VPaulus » Sat Jan 09, 2016 12:25 pm

Waltero wrote: Apparently it is not all that easy to see. Can a Moderator not find a cheat?
No. Most of us won't be able.
Web admins and tech support can.
I can.

Waltero
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Re: MULTIPLAYER CHEATING

Post by Waltero » Sun Jan 10, 2016 10:43 am

@Von Paulus, It seems Mr. zakblood_slith does not put a whole lot of faith in you or your cheat "flagging" system.
Whenever Cheat is mentioned he is on it...I mention cheater, cheated he is all over my arse (I like It)!

I have declared myself a cheater (which I am not), and thus have been unjustly "flagged" as such.
Tis not I nor its members that should label a cheat. I would feel better if somebody like zakblood_slith was at the helm. Maybe giving him access to the wee little flags that pop up every time somebody reloads a game; thereby declaring in open forum the players who are banned for such blatant acts of disobedience.

Who knows If Waltero is a cheater.
Web admins and tech support knows.
I know.

How is anybody going to know you are doing your job if you don't ever expose players who are reloading.
Have to wonder if you even have a reload system that works?
I have to wonder why, why is there never any open games in multiplayer...I could careless otherwise.

Note: I was not officially 'flagged'- just verbally (by a moderator) in response to my posts...same difference.


P.S. zakblood_slith; I sure do admire your energy for the game.

zakblood
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Re: MULTIPLAYER CHEATING

Post by zakblood » Sun Jan 10, 2016 7:22 pm

thanks Waltero, for the energy comment, not sure about the rest tbh :roll: :wink:
Re: question
Pleasure playing with you.

Is the first turn random (who moves first)
Does a player lose points when he loses a match (multiplayer)

It looks as if I am forced to play against the AI, if I want to gain a hero or two ;-(

Re: question
I never use Suppress, maybe I should look up the rules to see how it effects units :lol:

Re: question
51 here. I like your Tank overrun...very nice. You are learning me!

please remember i was the first to say i'll miss you when you said you was leaving the game, and also the one who spent the time online playing you showing you tips and tricks on how to play better, there is repeat no flag against your name as a cheat or has officially or none officially 'flagged'- just typed what you have already printed and said yourself, as nobody have ever mentioned cheat apart from you saying you cheat in some of your posts, if joking it's best to put a smiley face :) then others know your joking :wink:

sorry if i jump on you or if it feels like i jump on you, i don't mean to or even feel like i have either tbh, and will try and do better in the future :oops:

Regarding the faith part, if i didn't have faith in the other mods / staff or admin or developers for that matter, for one i don't think i'd be a mod here, and second i would have posted it to them in private first before i resigned 8)

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Re: MULTIPLAYER CHEATING

Post by IainMcNeil » Mon Jan 11, 2016 12:56 pm

The cheat system is administered by the support team. Players are automatically warned if there are any suspicious signs. If things don't change they are referred to the manual review team who will check it out and if they suspect an issue contact the person to discuss it with them and if they don't have a valid reason for why they downloaded then they will be banned from multiplayer. This is rare but has happened a number of times and we don't announce bans on the forums.

Waltero
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Re: MULTIPLAYER CHEATING

Post by Waltero » Thu Jan 21, 2016 6:35 pm

IainMcNeil wrote:The cheat system is administered by the support team. Players are automatically warned if there are any suspicious signs. If things don't change they are referred to the manual review team who will check it out and if they suspect an issue contact the person to discuss it with them and if they don't have a valid reason for why they downloaded then they will be banned from multiplayer. This is rare but has happened a number of times and we don't announce bans on the forums.
My favorite; "I thought I was playing against the Computer". A valid excuse?
After all, everybody cheats while playing against the computer (AI). Just as some might believe the computer always cheats...who's to know the difference...it is all computer based.
Makes cheating a bit more expectable don't you think?

I don't think they should ever allow cheating, even while playing against the AI.
Keeps players honest, makes you work all the harder too.

Eizo
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Re: MULTIPLAYER CHEATING

Post by Eizo » Sun Feb 14, 2016 11:33 pm

I'm surprised that that this is possible at all.

Will you implement some kind of dice roll/random seed save? Saving really shouldn't be done only when a player presses "Proceed", but after every action that can't be legitimately undone (like movement where you can press "Undo"). It would save both labour time for you (the moderators), and the player's trust in the game.

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