Max & Min for Single Divs???

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Blathergut
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Max & Min for Single Divs???

Post by Blathergut » Tue Jan 20, 2015 2:16 am

When it says to divide the minimums by 3 and round to nearest whole number, reducing anything of less than a half unit to 0, and the maximum then is divided by 2:

a) What happens to something like horse artillery, with a minimum of 0 and a maximum of 2 which is then divided by 2? Does this mean that the horse artillery CAN'T be used in that single division coming into a different corps? Or does the maximum of 1 unit still remain available?

b) This would be all kinds of things with minimums of 4 and maximums of 4 or 6 which would reduce to less than a full unit, making the unit impossible to form. So are all these units unavailable for imported divisions?

Blathergut
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Re: Max & Min for Single Divs???

Post by Blathergut » Tue Jan 20, 2015 3:15 am

So, to further delve:

French 1812 Cavalry Corps importing a Gd cavalry division:

-ALL Gd cavalry (except one unit of lancers) reduce to a minimum of less than a unit so are unavailable? This makes no sense.

It says I can import a Gd cavalry division but everything reduces to less than a unit?

So could someone explain what I am doing wrong and how it IS possible to have an imported Gd cavalry division?

Blathergut
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Re: Max & Min for Single Divs???

Post by Blathergut » Tue Jan 20, 2015 3:42 am

So, ALL optional troops with a maximum of 6 or less can never be imported into a single division?

ALL core troops with a minimum of 4 (inf/cav) or arty min 2 and maximums of 6 or less can never be imported into a single division?

Blathergut
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Re: Max & Min for Single Divs???

Post by Blathergut » Tue Jan 20, 2015 3:58 am

Or...do the rules on page 159 of ToN ONLY apply if nothing is mentioned about minimums and maximums for imported divisions?

Example:

French 1812 Cavalry Corps

-a division of Gd cavalry may be used...ignoring minima for artillery and infantry...Does this mean the rule on p159 does NOT apply since "these [max and min] are often changed by the instructions in the main list, but where they are not the following [p159 rule] changes need to be applied..."

Blathergut
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Re: Max & Min for Single Divs???

Post by Blathergut » Tue Jan 20, 2015 4:01 am

This is all a bit disheartening. I was enjoying running the Gd cavalry division with it's YG horse arty. I can make it OG but if it is impossible to run a GD division, it seems silly for it to be even mentioned. Are there other situations/divisions that have the same problem?

MDH
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Re: Max & Min for Single Divs???

Post by MDH » Tue Jan 20, 2015 9:18 am

Maybe its me but aren't you misinterpreting the purpose of the minima? Or maybe I just don't understand the problem.

A minimum of zero is cancelling the " must have" underlying the use of a minimum, not creating a " can't have" or deleting the line altogether . It is just saying if you can't create a valid unit by cutting a line to one third you don't have to .

The amendment to page 173 in E & E which I have before me clarifies the problem of the maximum being divided by 2 in the original text. It says inter alia " The Division selected need only comply with one of these restrictions [those in the main list]. The selected division must contain 1/3rd of the minima [subject to the point about not being able to form a valid unit] but may contain the full maxima for all troop types selected [key point]. All minima and maxima of the troop types not selected are ignored (reduced to zero.)"

So you can have up to the maxima of Guard Horse artillery but don't have to have any if dividing the minimum by three reduces it to one base only- which it will.

I can see that where the 1/3 of the minima of the core troops are used that may create a large and expensive division that may make optional troops ( who have no original minima - usually) hard to afford of course.

The whole purpose of all this is make it possible to import a viable division that is as consistent as possible with the exporting list's structure . Rigid application of the original minima which are set at Corps not divisional level would have made no sense as it would " bust the bank".

Hope that helps :D

Blathergut
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Re: Max & Min for Single Divs???

Post by Blathergut » Tue Jan 20, 2015 10:06 am

okay...thank you!...I had missed the errata clarification...thank you for taking the time to explain...the 'divide the max. by 2' was driving me nutty!!!!

This has been the first time running a cavalry corps (way more effective/deadly than I thought it would be) and importing divisions, so it's actually never come up before, strangely!

MDH
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Re: Max & Min for Single Divs???

Post by MDH » Tue Jan 20, 2015 11:49 am

Blathergut wrote:okay...thank you!...I had missed the errata clarification...thank you for taking the time to explain...the 'divide the max. by 2' was driving me nutty!!!!

This has been the first time running a cavalry corps (way more effective/deadly than I thought it would be) and importing divisions, so it's actually never come up before, strangely!

The 2 was of course thinking about rather larger maxima than those for horse artillery. Turned out not such neat idea. It worked for most types but the clarification takes care of it.

Yes when we created Cavalry Reserve Corps lists , even when importing an Infantry Division I thought it unlikely many folk would opt to field a single Cavalry Corps in a standard game unless they knew in advance they were up against a similar opponent- two Corps a side then fine.

Blathergut
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Re: Max & Min for Single Divs???

Post by Blathergut » Tue Jan 20, 2015 12:13 pm

The cavalry corps has become my new favourite! Even vs Dead. and his field foritifications. :)

What's not to love about 4 batteries of horse artillery all dropping on one field fort!!??!! (Although how I could roll 25 dice and get only 2 hits... :(

It's undergone some minor tweaking since the first outing...should hold up much better next time!

MDH
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Re: Max & Min for Single Divs???

Post by MDH » Tue Jan 20, 2015 1:32 pm

Blathergut wrote:The cavalry corps has become my new favourite! Even vs Dead. and his field foritifications. :)

What's not to love about 4 batteries of horse artillery all dropping on one field fort!!??!! (Although how I could roll 25 dice and get only 2 hits... :(

It's undergone some minor tweaking since the first outing...should hold up much better next time!
I quite like the Austrian reserve Corps from 1809 - a mix of shock cavalry and light and good quality grenadiers but if you don't win the initiative its not so great.

As to D rolls since I stopped playing *&%$**& Grand Manner I don't have the same problems :D There you often throw dozens of D6s plus D5s and D10s thrown in just to confuse the Gods of chance :twisted: FoG(N) ( but less FoG(AM) ) seems to even things out enough for me .

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