Heavy Chariots

[tyronec]

Heavy Chariots work well for the early periods, they seem well balanced against their assorted medium foot and mounted opposition.
Am not so sure about the later ones; Carthaginian & Kyrenean. Would have thought hoplites or pikes or a legion would just have charged them without much difficulty however in the game they count as shock mounted and are effective at pinning good quality infantry.
Of course this wouldn't matter too much if we only fought in period but a lot of us don't.
Is there any historical report of what happened when Carthaginian chariots came up against the Greeks in Sicily, or maybe they didn't use them overseas ?

A suggestion would be to remove the impact malus when heavy foot are charging heavy chariots, if that were possible.

[rbodleyscott]

At Tunis in 310 BC the Syracusans defeated the (2,000) Carthaginian chariots by shooting them and allowing them to pass through lanes in the hoplite ranks. They did not charge them.

[Karvon]

I was a bit curious about these chariots, so did a little poking around online and came across references to two battles in which chariots were used by the Carthaginians.

They are first mentioned at the Battle of Crimisus River in 341 BC. They were important in the early Carthaginian army and it seems that up until during the Second Punic war the Libyans supplied the bulk of these. (Warry, John. Warfare in the Classical World. pp. 98-99.) The four-horse chariots were at the vanguard of the army as they crossed the river. Behind them was infantry which the Greeks identified as Carthaginian citizens and at the rear were the foreign troops. Timoleon noticed the army was separated by the river, giving him a good opportunity to attack. He decided to send the cavalry ahead to prevent the Carthaginian citizen infantry from forming their phalanx.[13] when he saw that they were unable to come to close quarters with the Carthaginians on account of the chariots which coursed up and down in front of their lines, but were forced to wheel about continually that their ranks might not be broken, and to make their charges in quick succession after facing about again, he signalled to his horsemen to ride along outside and past the line of chariots and attack the enemy on the flank, while he himself made his vanguard lock their shields in close array, ordered the trumpet to sound the charge, and fell upon the Carthaginians.

The second account is the one mentioned by Richard, the Battle of White Tunis in 310 BC. The Carthaginians placed the chariots and cavalry in front, who were to strike the Greeks first.[9] The Carthaginian chariots and then the cavalry charged the Greeks first, but their assault proved to be ineffective. They suffered casualties and fled to the rear of the Carthaginian army.

How would the Carthaginian chariots have been used? They were drawn up in units at the front of the Carthaginian army (Plut. Tim. 25.1,27.2), like war elephants we should not be too quick to underestimate just how much of a pyschological impact this would have had on unnerving enemy troops, The chariots would then charge forward, firing arrows to thin enemy ranks, and perhaps javelins too at closer quarters, while the sounds of the galloping hooves and thundering wheels, not to mention the dust would be quite intimidating. Horses will not charge a densely packed phalanx of spears, so the chariots would then either whirl away and repeat this several times before the infantry went in, or if they had created a weak point of injured or fleeing troops in the enemy line, they could exploit this and charge through/create more havoc on this gap in the lines and then the infantry could stream through or even encircle and cut down the enemy in the wake of the chariots.

The Carthaginian use of chariotry in warfare declined during the Second Punic war and was gradually phased out and completely replaced with war elephants.

Perhaps the chariots should be bow armed to reflect this in FOG2?

Karvon

[tyronec]

Battle of Crimisus River is an interesting one, although it is not specifically said that the Greeks charged the chariots, it does say that the Chariots were in the front line and that the Greeks charged the Carthaginians. Guess we just don't have enough information to know what happened when Hoplites were faced by Chariots though in these two battles the Carthaginians came off the worst.

[Karvon]

Well it does say

he himself made his vanguard lock their shields in close array, ordered the trumpet to sound the charge, and fell upon the Carthaginians.

So this sounds like he led his infantry against the chariots, or what was left of them after the cavalry bypassed them, and drove them off, before falling on the Sacred Band behind them. Some sources say the chariots suffered from missile fire from archers and slingers, which may have disrupted or fragmented them in FOG2 terms, making them more vulnerable to an infantry assault. Some other sources mention elite infantry dealt with the chariots, so perhaps some combo of these things transpired.

Karvon