Skirmish Force Selection is NOT working properly...

[AssKickinProf]

I am using version 1.0.4 which I believe is the latest version of the game as of 7/15/2023. Anyway, there seems to be a bug in the Skirmish Generator. When you set the force selection switch in the Skirmish Generator advanced options to ALL only sometimes (rarely) does it work correctly with the human getting to choose ALL the troops up to the selected point total.

For example, if I choose 4000 pts for my troop size and select ALL for the force selection option, sometimes I have 4000 pts to select troops with but more often than not I have none. That is, the computer has already selected ALL of my troops up to the 4000 point limit. At other times, perhaps I have about 2000 pts. to spend. Which choice I get seems random. FYI, my Army List is set to RANDOM.

I know that this is an older game but I am a recent purchaser and fixing this would greatly enhance the playability of the game as, for example, in multiplayer mode both sides could have the same number of points and get to select their own mix of armor vs. infantry, that is human choice for troop selection on BOTH sides of the battle with each side getting to spend ALL of their assigned troop points.

The ALL setting for force selection does work sometime, so it just seems like the force selection parameter is getting reset some/most times. I am thinking that this should be a minor bug to fix.

Thanks for looking into this.

p.s. See my next post in this thread for a description of the issue that I believe is causing the bug/problem.

[AssKickinProf]

I believe that I have figured out what is causing this bug in the Skirmish Generator - or at least what the direct symptom is (though I do not know how to fix it) but there is a work around (see below). To recap the bug... If the force selection type is set to ALL in the Advanced settings in the Skirmish Generator, it often fails to allow you to choose ALL of your troops. Indeed, more often than the not the computer chooses 100% of your troops rather than you being able to choose ANY of them. This is the bug.

It seems that this bug is related to some internal maximum limit on the number of troops in your selected army. If the program determines that the skirmish point total you have chosen for the Army List type you have selected will result in your army having more units than allowed, the program will proceed to choose 100% of your troops to ensure that your army will, in fact, not exceed the internal maximum limit on the number of troops in an army. Thus, if your Army List is from later years (1944 say) then you can select a higher number of points for your army without encountering this bug. I have (by trial and error) determined the maximum number of points for each Army List type that selecting below this point value will allow you to avoid this bug. The maximum number of points that you can have for each Army List type without encountering this bug are (this goes for both the Default Data and Enhanced Random Skirmish Mod 1.9),

German Mech Corps 1941: 3100 pts maximum
German Panzer Corps 1943: 4500 pts maximum
SS Panzer Corps 1943: 6000 pts maximum
German Mech Corps 1944: 5600 pts maximum

Soviet Mech Corps 1941: 3200 pts maximum
Soviet Tank Div 1941: 3100 pts maximum
Soviet Ramshackle Def 1941 3300 pts maximum
Soviet Mech Corps 1944 4200 pts maximum

So, if you set your force point total to LESS than these maximums for each force type then the Skirmish Generator works as it should. This table also illustrates why this bug appeared to happen randomly at times. For example, suppose you set the Army List type for each side to RANDOM and chose 3300 points for each side. Since the Army List type is random, if the skirmish generator happened to choose German Panzer Corp 1943 vs. Soviet Mech Corps 1944 then both human sides will be able to choose ALL of their troops as 3300 points is less than the maximum point value for each of those two Army List types that would trigger the bug. If, on the other hand, the Skirmish Generator randomly chose German Mech Corps 1941 vs. Soviet Mech Corps 1944 then the German side human would not be able to choose any of their troops as 3300 pts > 3100 maximum pts for German Mech Corps 1941. In this case, the soviet side human could choose their troops but the Skirmish Generator would choose all of the German troops (no human choice of troops for the German side in this instance). Alternately, if you again set the point limit to 3300 pts. and the Skirmish Generator randomly picks German Mech Corps 1941 vs. Soviet Mech Corps 1941 then neither human side would be able to choose any of their troops and the computer would choose 100% of the troops for both sides of this battle scenario.

As far as the work around goes, just keep your point total less than these maximums and the Skirmish Generator should work as intended. So, if you keep your point totals to 3000 pts or less, the Skirmish Generator should work as intended for all randomly generated Army List battles. If you manually choose the Army List type then just keep your point totals under the maximum values indicated in the table above for each Army List type and the bug should not manifest itself.

Can we see if this bug can be addressed?

Also, it would be nice if you could select ALL for the Skirmish Force Selection option even when the Army List Types are NOT set to RANDOM. It would be nice, for example, for you and a friend to have a skirmish battle where it is all Tigers vs. T34's or all infantry vs. armor. Is it possible to implement this? Just allow the ALL option and within this option allow any troop type to be selected as much as you want.

Thanks

Paul

[Paul59]

I believe that I have figured out what is causing this bug in the Skirmish Generator - or at least what the direct symptom is (though I do not know how to fix it) but there is a work around (see below). To recap the bug... If the force selection type is set to ALL in the Advanced settings in the Skirmish Generator, it often fails to allow you to choose ALL of your troops. Indeed, more often than the not the computer chooses 100% of your troops rather than you being able to choose ANY of them. This is the bug.

It seems that this bug is related to some internal maximum limit on the number of troops in your selected army. If the program determines that the skirmish point total you have chosen for the Army List type you have selected will result in your army having more units than allowed, the program will proceed to choose 100% of your troops to ensure that your army will, in fact, not exceed the internal maximum limit on the number of troops in an army. Thus, if your Army List is from later years (1944 say) then you can select a higher number of points for your army without encountering this bug. I have (by trial and error) determined the maximum number of points for each Army List type that selecting below this point value will allow you to avoid this bug. The maximum number of points that you can have for each Army List type without encountering this bug are (this goes for both the Default Data and Enhanced Random Skirmish Mod 1.9),

German Mech Corps 1941: 3100 pts maximum
German Panzer Corps 1943: 4500 pts maximum
SS Panzer Corps 1943: 6000 pts maximum
German Mech Corps 1944: 5600 pts maximum

Soviet Mech Corps 1941: 3200 pts maximum
Soviet Tank Div 1941: 3100 pts maximum
Soviet Ramshackle Def 1941 3300 pts maximum
Soviet Mech Corps 1944 4200 pts maximum

So, if you set your force point total to LESS than these maximums for each force type then the Skirmish Generator works as it should. This table also illustrates why this bug appeared to happen randomly at times. For example, suppose you set the Army List type for each side to RANDOM and chose 3300 points for each side. Since the Army List type is random, if the skirmish generator happened to choose German Panzer Corp 1943 vs. Soviet Mech Corps 1944 then both human sides will be able to choose ALL of their troops as 3300 points is less than the maximum point value for each of those two Army List types that would trigger the bug. If, on the other hand, the Skirmish Generator randomly chose German Mech Corps 1941 vs. Soviet Mech Corps 1944 then the German side human would not be able to choose any of their troops as 3300 pts > 3100 maximum pts for German Mech Corps 1941. In this case, the soviet side human could choose their troops but the Skirmish Generator would choose all of the German troops (no human choice of troops for the German side in this instance). Alternately, if you again set the point limit to 3300 pts. and the Skirmish Generator randomly picks German Mech Corps 1941 vs. Soviet Mech Corps 1941 then neither human side would be able to choose any of their troops and the computer would choose 100% of the troops for both sides of this battle scenario.

As far as the work around goes, just keep your point total less than these maximums and the Skirmish Generator should work as intended. So, if you keep your point totals to 3000 pts or less, the Skirmish Generator should work as intended for all randomly generated Army List battles. If you manually choose the Army List type then just keep your point totals under the maximum values indicated in the table above for each Army List type and the bug should not manifest itself.

Can we see if this bug can be addressed?

Also, it would be nice if you could select ALL for the Skirmish Force Selection option even when the Army List Types are NOT set to RANDOM. It would be nice, for example, for you and a friend to have a skirmish battle where it is all Tigers vs. T34's or all infantry vs. armor. Is it possible to implement this? Just allow the ALL option and within this option allow any troop type to be selected as much as you want.

Thanks

Paul

Hi Paul,

I read all this, and it reminded me of a problem I have encountered before in Field of Glory 2, believe it or not FoG2 uses an advanced version of the BA2 game engine, so the two games are very similar when it comes to the internal files and scripts. If this is the same problem, the solution is quite simple, and just involves increasing the numbers in the ArmyList file.

When we were discussing this before I don't think you mentioned that you were using the Army Lists, and my mods were designed to be used without Army Lists (using the Random Selection), so it never occurred to me.

However, I then became very confused, because you say you are selecting an Army List and also selecting Force Selection All. When I select an Army List the Force Selection is always Split, and I cannot change it to All!

[AssKickinProf]

You are correct. When you use an Army List you can not select ALL only SPLIT. Is there a simple way the ALL choice could be added when you are selecting from an army list? Could this feature be added easily?

Also, is there a way to get ALL to work with the RANDOM option selected regardless of how may points you assign to each side? Right now it seems like ALL only works properly (with RANDOM selected) when the point totals for each side are low enough. For example, if you select RANDOM, the the ALL choice seems to always work if each army side gets no more than 3000pts assigned to it. If on the other hand you assigned each side 3300 pts sometimes the ALL choice will work and other times it will not (when it does not work the computer will choose all the troops). This led me to believe that the RANDOM setting just randomly selects an Army List for each side. Or is it doing something else?

[Paul59]

You are correct. When you use an Army List you can not select ALL only SPLIT. Is there a simple way the ALL choice could be added when you are selecting from an army list? Could this feature be added easily?

Also, is there a way to get ALL to work with the RANDOM option selected regardless of how may points you assign to each side? Right now it seems like ALL only works properly (with RANDOM selected) when the point totals for each side are low enough. For example, if you select RANDOM, the the ALL choice seems to always work if each army side gets no more than 3000pts assigned to it. If on the other hand you assigned each side 3300 pts sometimes the ALL choice will work and other times it will not (when it does not work the computer will choose all the troops). This led me to believe that the RANDOM setting just randomly selects an Army List for each side. Or is it doing something else?

The only way that you will be able to select all of your units is to use Random. Each army list has several units that have a required minimum number of units, so the game selects those for you. I have tried removing the minimum unit requirement from the army lists, but strangely it did not work.

So obviously something else is interfering to stop you doing what you want. I am pretty sure that the answer is in the MapGenerate2.bsf file (which can be found in the Battle Academy 2/Data/Battle/Scripts folder), but I can't make sense of the scripts in it at the moment.

[Paul59]

Looking at it again, I think I can understand a bit more of what is going on. It is quite a complicated piece of scripting, as it is trying to allow balanced forces (for both AI and MP play) in a number of different scenario types, without breaking the 64 units per side limit. Also as weapons and tanks get more expensive as the war progresses it needs to adjust the points totals again on a yearly basis.

Basically I wouldn't want to risk modding such a complicated piece of scripting, we could easily end up causing problems. Also, you are limited by the 64 unit per side rule, you can't go over that. Looking at the huge points totals you are trying to achieve, you are risking reaching that limit.

Your best bet is to set the Scenario Type to Symmetric, Army List to Random and Force Selection to ALL. That way you can get 100% player force selection up to 4100 points for 1945, 4000 points for 1943 and 1944, 3900 points for 1942, and 3500 points for 1941. Although those points totals may vary somewhat depending upon the types of unit you get to choose from. For instance I have got up to 4400 points for 1945.