To Tame a Land

[keyth]

I think that we wait for the dust of Summer to subside and take stock then. I still need to update the first post so everything is on one place, but I've had a busy evening trying to catch up with the 'Deja vu' games

[keyth]

Well having updated the thread twice and had it trashed twice, I'll wait a bit to see if some stability has returned..

[batesmotel]

Here's the agreed result from my Spring battle with Tiavals:

batesmotel (Nikephorian Byzantines) 21/40
Tiavals (Lombards) 46/46

Tiavlas lost one FC and looted my baggage.

I'll let Keyth figure the numbers.

Chris

[blbrowning]

If the inspired commander is killed is the battle over?

[batesmotel]

Now I'm out of the campaign at the end of the spring since I died to blbrowning. Been nice playing.

Chris

[batesmotel]

If the inspired commander is killed is the battle over?

Keyth finished is battle where his IC died so I think you have to finish taking your lumps unless you'd rather resign to avoid them.

Chris

[batesmotel]

With their last gasp, my troops have avenged the loss of their leader by inflicting a decisive defeat to the forces of blbbrowning.

batesmotel(Dailami(Buyid)) 24/34
blbrowning(Dailami(Buyid)) 35/32

I lost my IC and hence am out of the campaign. Blbbrowning's baggage was looted.

Again, I'll leave point calculations to Keyth.

Chris

[blbrowning]

Decisive defeat? The battle was over on the third turn. I lost 6 BP and Batesmotel lost 2 and died, forever and ever. His headless corpse ran around in suicide mode like a decapitated chicken rolling sevens. We got it over and spring is summer.

[phlewis]

I would like to suggest an amendment to the campaign rules. Instead of the faction being out of the campaign if the IC dies have it lose 250 points and no longer be able to use an IC.

Pat Lewis

[keyth]

I've got a busy day today but will catch up with this later!

Cheers.

[blbrowning]

If the inspired commander is killed is the battle over?

Keyth finished is battle where his IC died so I think you have to finish taking your lumps unless you'd rather resign to avoid them.

Chris

Thjs is really wrong because Keyth chose a non-campaign army. Correct?

[keyth]

I chose a campaign army, but the wrong one (I have inspired and 'uninspired' versions of each army). The entire battle is still valid for scoring purposes.

Further to Pat's comment, I think it is too easy to get knocked out via leader death (which is a fairly random event) - the idea is to have some fun competition in the race to 2500 renown, not to have players falling by the wayside in the first few turns!

I like the idea that you start with an IC available, and if he dies, he's out of the picture. Maybe you should gain another IC at certain thresholds?
This would then remove the reason for gaining renown when Taking the Field, so that would be scrapped. Getting an IC killed should be -100? -250 puts you straight on your backside early in the game, unless we also scrap the 'negative renown and you're out'...

As I said at the outset, I'm happy for things to change when it makes for a better campaign. Suggestions please!

[phlewis]

I think having the lose of an IC be worth say -50 renown which is twice what losing an FC costs and no IC available again until you have crossed a threshold to add an additional province would be sufficient.

I suggested -250 renown as an effect that would be fairly catastrophic for a faction but wouldn't automatically put it out of the campaign.

My main concern was losing a large number of the players to early in the campaign.

Pat Lewis

[Turk1964]

Gday all
I agree that it should be a point type penalty for the loss of an Inspired Commander,say -200 reknown .This would allow players to continue and not be knocked out.So for the fun side of the competition to continue i would say remove the Knock out penalty.

[Turk1964]

Battle Result Turk1964 Khazars Phlewis Hamdanids

Turk1964 23/39 defeated Phlewis 36/32
Phlewis lost 1 field commander in battle.

I will leave it to Keyth to figure the results out

[blbrowning]

He put his IC in the field of play and took advantage of that strategy. He put his IC in the middle of the fight and I took advantage of that. If you want conservation of force well he lost with 2 casualties and any group of soldiers worth their salt would dump the clown, end of fight. How are you not going to dump him, he is dead. Throwing a shit fit and attacking everything in sight and getting the results he got was more an aberration of luck than losing the leader. You stick them in the front and they die more often than not.

Then plead for a rule change. After a decisive victory? And a parade?

Keyth, if you didn't use the wrong army you didn't use the wrong army. And after you used the 'wrong army' there was the option to resign.

My opinion is give him my spot like Keyth took Sarpedon so he can continue to flail around having fun dreaming that his men love him more than his Mom. After all I was decisively defeated.

[Turk1964]

I wouldnt field an Inspired commander too soon in this competition as the result of his death is catastrophic.I think it is a little careless to risk your character so early and i would rather use field commanders and troop commanders.I still believe the penalty for the loss should be harsh but it wont be long before there will be no players left if it is to stay as is.

[phlewis]

I don't use ICs. So, if everyone were to run ICs. and lose them with the current rules I would win. At the rate I'm going that is probably the only way I could win. That would be funny. =)

Pat Lewis

[phlewis]

1025 Summer

phlewis attacks Aristides

password phlewis

Charge!

Pat Lewis

[keyth]

We've seen the first season unfold and, to be honest, it's not quite happened as I expected... hindsight is a beautiful thing! I envisaged the campaign as a race to 2500 renown rather than a knock-out competition. I seem to have inadvertently created the latter

I have a suggestion to change the rules and then a question on how to implement those changes fairly.

Rules Changes

Scoring change:

250 - ( (BP lost / Starting BP) * (Army points / 2) )

Example: Player A 10/40 beats Player B 40/40

Player A scores 250 - ( 10/40 (0.25) * 500/2 (250) ) = 187.5, rounded to 188
Player B scores 250 - ( 40/40 (1.00) * 500/2 (250) ) = 0

This gets rid of rounding anomalies with average unit costs - we'll still get the occasional .5 to round up, but it is a fairer reflection.

'Taking the Field' no longer scores renown
Losing your IC loses you 100 renown
Gaining/losing vassals no longer scores renown

Each faction starts with one IC. Additional ICs will join a faction at 750 and 1500 renown. Dead ICs cannot be replaced in any way.

If your score drops below zero, you automatically become vassal to the faction that you were playing against (unless they also drop below zero after the same battle). As a vassal, you may not attack your overlord unless they attack you first. While your renown is below zero, 20% of any renown scored goes to your overlord and you retain 80%. Once your renown is above zero, there is no renown penalty for being a vassal though the attacking restriction is still in place. These rules apply each time renown drops below zero, with the new vassalage completely replacing the old one, including the attacking restriction.

If both factions drop below zero in the same battle, they become Minor Houses, gaining 75% of renown scored until above zero. No other faction gains renown from their actions.

If the majority are happy with these changes then there are two obvious ways to implement them:

1. Reset the game and start from scratch.
2. Continue from the current position, removing any bonuses for Taking the Field and applying the -100 penalty for dead ICs.

Let me know what you think.

Thanks!