AAR: Supermax VS Vokt (No Vokt pls) Version 4.0

After action reports for Commander Europe at War.

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supermax
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Re: AAR: Supermax VS Vokt (No Vokt pls) Version 4.0

Post by supermax » Mon Nov 14, 2016 12:02 pm

duncanr wrote:yes indeed, I do wonder if you might run a little short of fuel though
Well. I might yes. Got something like 15 axis ftrs. But i am not really on the offensive anymore, so should be ok. Anyway winter months arriving theynwill replenish it.

pk867
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Re: AAR: Supermax VS Vokt (No Vokt pls) Version 4.0

Post by pk867 » Mon Nov 14, 2016 6:39 pm

supermax wrote:
pk867 wrote:This tactic was tried before in a AAR which very little TAC's were purchased.

link- http://www.slitherine.com/forum/viewtop ... 78&t=65181

You need a more balanced approach with TAC's and SAC's to help achieve victory.( plus land units)

If he had 6 to 7 SAC total along with 8 or more TAC the invasions would fare better.

I am surprised about the full level FTRs in the game by 43' though.
What do you mean by fuel level? You find it low?
No not fuel level, what I meant was that you have DogFight Technology at level 6 in 1943. I rarely see that in my games.

supermax
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Re: AAR: Supermax VS Vokt (No Vokt pls) Version 4.0

Post by supermax » Mon Nov 14, 2016 7:03 pm

pk867 wrote:
supermax wrote:
pk867 wrote:This tactic was tried before in a AAR which very little TAC's were purchased.

link- http://www.slitherine.com/forum/viewtop ... 78&t=65181

You need a more balanced approach with TAC's and SAC's to help achieve victory.( plus land units)

If he had 6 to 7 SAC total along with 8 or more TAC the invasions would fare better.

I am surprised about the full level FTRs in the game by 43' though.
What do you mean by fuel level? You find it low?
No not fuel level, what I meant was that you have DogFight Technology at level 6 in 1943. I rarely see that in my games.
Yes. And whats interesting is that the british also have it!

Plaid
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Re: AAR: Supermax VS Vokt (No Vokt pls) Version 4.0

Post by Plaid » Mon Nov 14, 2016 7:27 pm

Thats not necessary level 6 dogfight to have jet fighter skins, its sum of tech levels what matters. You can get levels from strategic operations and organisation and still get that image without maximum dogfight, for example.
And from my games its typical to reach maximum level fighter tech by autumn 1943 if you focus on it from start. In this game progress is above average clearly, but not by a great deal.

supermax
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Re: AAR: Supermax VS Vokt (No Vokt pls) Version 4.0

Post by supermax » Mon Nov 14, 2016 7:51 pm

Plaid wrote:Thats not necessary level 6 dogfight to have jet fighter skins, its sum of tech levels what matters. You can get levels from strategic operations and organisation and still get that image without maximum dogfight, for example.
And from my games its typical to reach maximum level fighter tech by autumn 1943 if you focus on it from start. In this game progress is above average clearly, but not by a great deal.
YEah hes got the same dogfith as me. even better he has been able to keep his experience on his planes compared to me. :)

supermax
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Re: AAR: Supermax VS Vokt (No Vokt pls) Version 4.0

Post by supermax » Thu Nov 17, 2016 1:08 am

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supermax
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Re: AAR: Supermax VS Vokt (No Vokt pls) Version 4.0

Post by supermax » Sat Nov 19, 2016 2:46 am

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Peter Stauffenberg
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Re: AAR: Supermax VS Vokt (No Vokt pls) Version 4.0

Post by Peter Stauffenberg » Sat Nov 19, 2016 2:51 am

The German oil reserve is going down fast. So 1944 can become a painful year where you have to ground your strong air force.

supermax
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Re: AAR: Supermax VS Vokt (No Vokt pls) Version 4.0

Post by supermax » Sat Nov 19, 2016 3:28 pm

Stauffenberg wrote:The German oil reserve is going down fast. So 1944 can become a painful year where you have to ground your strong air force.
Theres no mistake about it 44 will be a long year for the germans.

Its interesting to see the germans crumble so fastin late 43 44.

Surprises me everygame!

supermax
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Re: AAR: Supermax VS Vokt (No Vokt pls) Version 4.0

Post by supermax » Sun Nov 20, 2016 2:56 am

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Peter Stauffenberg
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Re: AAR: Supermax VS Vokt (No Vokt pls) Version 4.0

Post by Peter Stauffenberg » Sun Nov 20, 2016 12:54 pm

I still think you have the upper hand since the western Allies don't have a foothold in Italy or France. However, all or almost all of your new builds must go to the east front. It won't help the Germans if the western Allies get nowhere if the Russians rush into Hamburg and Berlin. Running away to avoid being destroyed seems like a good strategy. It's a long way to Berlin from the current front line. Now it becomes important to count hexes and take ZOC into account so you can always try to be enough hexes away from the Russian units so they can't get adjacent and attack. In fair weather it becomes less important since the movement allowance is 4+. Still, using ZOC to slow down the Russians can save a few extra turns for the inevitable.

I expect the Russians to be at the Dnepr soon and once they get across it will be a race. Dnepr is very hard to defend since there are so many hexes that can be attacked from 3 sides.

Remember that Italy might fight on after the fall of Germany so the Russians might have to run towards Rome as well. Not likely it's going to happen, but keeping the italians alive will be very important.

Any chance you can send the Luftwaffe to Russia to cripple their air force and thus halt their offensive? Or is it too late to intervene there? At some date the Allies will land successfully in Sicily and France. Then the Luftwaffe can still win battles in Russia while they can't against the Allies. I wonder if you will be able to hit the Russians in the air before you run out of oil.

I think the Allied strategy should be easy. Engage the Axis every turn forcing the Axis to burn oil. Keep the oilfields bombarded down to red. Ploesti is particularly important to bomb. Then the nice and juicy Axis units will become grounded and can't engage to crush Allied landings.

So Vokt just needs to be patient and keep up the pressure. Still, I expect the Axis to win this game. However, it will be interesting to see if Max is as good at defending as he is at attacking. :P

supermax
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Re: AAR: Supermax VS Vokt (No Vokt pls) Version 4.0

Post by supermax » Sun Nov 20, 2016 7:04 pm

Stauffenberg wrote:I still think you have the upper hand since the western Allies don't have a foothold in Italy or France. However, all or almost all of your new builds must go to the east front. It won't help the Germans if the western Allies get nowhere if the Russians rush into Hamburg and Berlin. Running away to avoid being destroyed seems like a good strategy. It's a long way to Berlin from the current front line. Now it becomes important to count hexes and take ZOC into account so you can always try to be enough hexes away from the Russian units so they can't get adjacent and attack. In fair weather it becomes less important since the movement allowance is 4+. Still, using ZOC to slow down the Russians can save a few extra turns for the inevitable.

I expect the Russians to be at the Dnepr soon and once they get across it will be a race. Dnepr is very hard to defend since there are so many hexes that can be attacked from 3 sides.

Remember that Italy might fight on after the fall of Germany so the Russians might have to run towards Rome as well. Not likely it's going to happen, but keeping the italians alive will be very important.

Any chance you can send the Luftwaffe to Russia to cripple their air force and thus halt their offensive? Or is it too late to intervene there? At some date the Allies will land successfully in Sicily and France. Then the Luftwaffe can still win battles in Russia while they can't against the Allies. I wonder if you will be able to hit the Russians in the air before you run out of oil.

I think the Allied strategy should be easy. Engage the Axis every turn forcing the Axis to burn oil. Keep the oilfields bombarded down to red. Ploesti is particularly important to bomb. Then the nice and juicy Axis units will become grounded and can't engage to crush Allied landings.

So Vokt just needs to be patient and keep up the pressure. Still, I expect the Axis to win this game. However, it will be interesting to see if Max is as good at defending as he is at attacking. :P
Fair enough Borger :) I thought i had been defending for the whole game since i took Moscow... :)

supermax
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Re: AAR: Supermax VS Vokt (No Vokt pls) Version 4.0

Post by supermax » Mon Nov 21, 2016 3:06 am

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supermax
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Re: AAR: Supermax VS Vokt (No Vokt pls) Version 4.0

Post by supermax » Mon Nov 21, 2016 5:23 pm

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Plaid
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Re: AAR: Supermax VS Vokt (No Vokt pls) Version 4.0

Post by Plaid » Mon Nov 21, 2016 6:29 pm

I don't think Soviets can take Berlin in time even if Germans retreat all the way to Oder. They would suffer from rail conversation and 3 supply thing badly.
Its almost impossible to mount effective offensive with 3 supply and enemy ZoCs, no matter how strong is attacking force.

supermax
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Re: AAR: Supermax VS Vokt (No Vokt pls) Version 4.0

Post by supermax » Mon Nov 21, 2016 7:23 pm

Plaid wrote:I don't think Soviets can take Berlin in time even if Germans retreat all the way to Oder. They would suffer from rail conversation and 3 supply thing badly.
Its almost impossible to mount effective offensive with 3 supply and enemy ZoCs, no matter how strong is attacking force.
My thoughts exactly. I can retreat for a long whole still, compress my forces to have a quadruple-line of defense if i wish :)

The key now is retreat to save time in the east and contain a western allies landing. Not sure i can accomplish it, but i will try hard.

Morris
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Re: AAR: Supermax VS Vokt (No Vokt pls) Version 4.0

Post by Morris » Tue Nov 22, 2016 11:43 am

the Axis human resourse drop to a dangerous level .....

supermax
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Re: AAR: Supermax VS Vokt (No Vokt pls) Version 4.0

Post by supermax » Tue Nov 22, 2016 6:34 pm

Morris wrote:the Axis human resourse drop to a dangerous level .....
Yes it is surprising how fast the germans crumble in 4.0 To think that i am still over 50% manpower and havent played recklessly is telling. Not really heatly to stay on the defense with Germany.

Peter Stauffenberg
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Re: AAR: Supermax VS Vokt (No Vokt pls) Version 4.0

Post by Peter Stauffenberg » Wed Nov 23, 2016 1:27 am

50% manpower is no disaster. It's when you get to 25% you really have to worry.

supermax
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Re: AAR: Supermax VS Vokt (No Vokt pls) Version 4.0

Post by supermax » Wed Nov 23, 2016 3:05 am

Stauffenberg wrote:50% manpower is no disaster. It's when you get to 25% you really have to worry.
Well i will definitly not go under 50 in this game it seems.

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