Vokt (axis) vs Plaid (allies) 3.10 AAR

After action reports for Commander Europe at War.

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Vokt
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Re: Vokt (axis) vs Plaid (allies) 3.10 AAR

Post by Vokt » Wed Oct 29, 2014 11:54 pm

Turn 94. October 4, 1944.

Eastern front last Allies turn. Red Army is in full offensive mode in the Dnepr bend. A total of 5 Axis units (1 mech, 2 corps and 2 garrisons) were destroyed there as a result of Soviet attacks. Near Kiev, Bulgarian corps was finally destroyed. 2xNW of Gomel, offensive actions resumed, Wehrmacht unit there holding well. Soviet army were resumed its attack to Mogilev that, defended by a SS unit, held. In Velikiye Luki, fighting is fierce and last Allies turn, a Finnish corps was killed there:

Velikiye Luki-Mogilev sector
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Southern sector
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Eastern front Axis turn. Fair weather in the East. Dietrich's SS mech unit, at full readiness, launched a counterattack 1xS of Cherkassy which, helped by a xp Romanian corps, resulted in the killing of the Soviet armoured there, regaining the hex. North of Mogilev, another counterattack occurred. There, exposed Rokossovsky's armoured was attacked by 3 German corps that succeeded in destroying the unit. None of mentioned attacks counted with air support from tacs that have been already rebased to Germany. Near Velikiye Luki, depleted HQ (Zhukov) corps was finished off by the Finns. Finnish army even made another offensive action SE of Vitebesk, attacking a Soviet corps there, but this one was completely unsuccessful (lost 1:4):

Velikiye Luki-Mogilev sector
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Southern sector
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Western front last Allies turn. SS mech 1xSW of Cologne was destroyed due to an Allied attack. In Belgium-Holland, 2 Wehrmacht units (garrisons) were killed, Canadians finally crossing Albert Canal. Siegfried Line fortress 2xN of Strasbourg was heavily attacked:

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Western front Axis turn. Many units railed to Holland in order to stop the Allies. No attacks at all:

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Italy last Allies turn. Americans entered Rome and pocketed Bradley's mech, helped by a British mech, restored its supply, killing a German corps in the process. Ancona holds for now:

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Italy Axis turn. Repairings in all front line units (mech in Venice must wait for next turn):

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Last edited by Vokt on Sat Apr 01, 2017 6:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Vokt (axis) vs Plaid (allies) 3.10 AAR

Post by Cybvep » Thu Oct 30, 2014 9:17 am

I'm surprised that Berlin still has full PP value! That's ~14 PPs per turn. Plaid has many STRATs and surely he can afford to use 2 of them to bomb Berlin.

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Vokt (axis) vs Plaid (allies) 3.10 AAR

Post by Vokt » Thu Oct 30, 2014 3:23 pm

richardsd wrote:there seems to be a good set of improvements in 3.1 that shoul keep peoples interest going :-)

I have also been trying a few tactical tweaks in my games which seem to provide some additional interest

I think this game shows there is plenty to learn in 3.1

Sure!
Last edited by Vokt on Sun Apr 16, 2017 9:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Vokt
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Vokt (axis) vs Plaid (allies) 3.10 AAR

Post by Vokt » Thu Oct 30, 2014 3:27 pm

Cybvep wrote:I'm surprised that Berlin still has full PP value! That's ~14 PPs per turn. Plaid has many STRATs and surely he can afford to use 2 of them to bomb Berlin.
That might be due to the fact that most of allied strats being used as tacs for the land campaign. Several turns ago strategic bombardments over Germany PP's were reduced considerably. Strategic bombings over Northern Italy cities like Milan, have totally stopped, maybe for the same reasons.
Last edited by Vokt on Sun Apr 16, 2017 9:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Vokt (axis) vs Plaid (allies) 3.10 AAR

Post by Peter Stauffenberg » Thu Oct 30, 2014 8:40 pm

It seems to me that with the XP bonuses to air units it's even more important for the western Allies and Russians to have a healthy air force. Russia needs to establish air superiority in the east to really stop the German counter attacks. Gaining that is quite difficult since the German fighters have better tech and XP. So you need big numbers in fighters so you can repair depleted onces while the full strength ones fly offensive missions.

Once you have established at least air parity in the east is the time to start attacking the Russian tanks. Before that you just invite the German tactical bombers to crush them.

It is very hard for the Russians to destroy German mechs and panzers unless you soften them up a lot first with bombers. If you don't have the XP on your units then you probably need to find easier targets to work on. E. g. the Russians in this game had quite a few Axis minor infantry units in the far south and north of the front line. So maybe they could have used their best units against these to build up XP. You don't really have to gain much ground, but you need to collect the XP. Attacking a Romanian corps unit across river should give odds you can live with. A similar German corps can be very expensive to attack.

I believe players need to have a strategic plan for how to get XP in their units. Find targets to practise on and make sure you repair units with 8 steps or lower (or at least 7 steps). This way you preserve the hard earned XP.

Since the Germans earn XP earlier than the Allies it seems that you can't afford to become too passive as the Allies in the early phases of the war. That means you need to do something until you have the initiative for good. Attack the Axis where they are weak.

E. g. the Allies bypassed Vichy France in this game. I wonder how smart that was. It's not like you have to take the area to force an Italian surrender, but you gain easy XP against the forces there. Land in North Africa as early in 1942 as possible. Then land in Sardinia and Corsica. Later you can land in Sicily. Southern France becomes another area you can invade with the Allies.

As Vokt said the very experienced Allied forces from the Italian campaign could have been used to e. g. land near Marseilles. Then these forces can quickly join the forces trying to cross the Siegfried line. If you want to bypass French North Africa you could at least make a surprise attack on Vichy France in southern France and not have any German units waiting there on turn 1. That should ensure the fall of Marseilles and Nice quite early. Use CV's to help bombarding the cities.

So GS v3.1 definitely means you need to rethink your strategy. As far as I can tell it seems the Axis are more potent than ever so you really need to know what you're doing as the Allies to seize initiative from the Axis. It's not like you can play on autopilot for some years and then you will automatically get the upper hand as you were used to in earlier versions.

I think that with GS v3.1 the Axis have at least a 50% chance to win the game. I think it might be the first version where you feel the Axis aren't at a small disadvantage.

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Re: Vokt (axis) vs Plaid (allies) 3.10 AAR

Post by Vokt » Fri Oct 31, 2014 12:35 am

Turn 95. October 24, 1944.

Eastern front last Allies turn. Red Army launched a powerful offensive near Krivoj Rog that took the resource and destroyed 4 Axis minor units (1 mech, 1 corps and 2 garrisons). Operations meant the complete destruction of all Hungarian army units deployed in the East and a severe blow for Romanian army that counts now with only 4 units, one of them cut from supply. Attacks on Kiev itself commenced, city holding for now. Cherkassy still holds either. In Velikiye Luki, Finnish army lost 2 corps units due to Soviet attacks. Bulgarian units in the Eastern front changes sides and joined the Soviets after a Western Allies airborne operation in Sofia took Bulgarian capital. Shots below are at the end of Allies turn.

Velikiye Luki-Mogilev sector:
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Southern sector:
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Eastern front Axis turn. Mud weather. Only repairing of some units. Others were moved to rail hubs in order to be railed to Germany.

Western front last Allies turn. British airborne operation in Holland killed a German garrison 1xS of Hague. Another German garrison was destroyed near Cologne. Attacks to Antwerp commenced. Siegfried Line holds for now:

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Italy last Allies turn. German corps 2xN of Rome, survived at low strength an Allied offensive that is going on now in central Italy. Ancona keeps holding outstandingly well:

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Western front and Italy Axis turn. Fair weather in Central Europe. In Holland, more railing of units. In the rest, repairing of units:

Western front
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Italy
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Last edited by Vokt on Sat Apr 01, 2017 7:16 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Vokt (axis) vs Plaid (allies) 3.10 AAR

Post by richardsd » Fri Oct 31, 2014 2:42 am

that would mean range an spotting for the para jump - must check the map, I am fond of para's (some jump experience) but have never achieved that (although I have had some sucessful para ops against plaid)

to be fair I won a game against plaid I really shouoldn't have, still don't really know how, but he did suggest the para ops did some damage

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Re: Vokt (axis) vs Plaid (allies) 3.10 AAR

Post by Vokt » Fri Oct 31, 2014 5:40 pm

Turn 96. November 13, 1944.

Eastern front last Allies turn (Mud). Attacks on Cherkassy intensified and so, city was taken by Red Army. Romanian corps 1xS of mentioned city was also killed. Some attacks near Kherson either. Kiev holds for now:

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Eastern front Axis turn. Fair weather. All Wehrmacht units in Vitebesk-Mogilev-Gomel sector and mechs E and S of Kiev, started a withdrawal. Several German corps N and W of Kiev, will make a stand for the sake of the units that started to withdraw. Finnish abandoned Pskov. In Finland, spawned partisan retook resource:

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Western front last Allies turn. 2 German garrisons killed in Holland. Siegfried Line still holds. Heavy attack to Antwerp in which Allies suffered high losses for no much damage inflicted upon SS corps defending the city-fortress. Joint US-UK airborne operation in Stuttgart:

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Western front Axis turn. Luftwaffe bombed US paratroopers in Stuttgart, further weakening them. Air attack was possible after German fighters lured Allied ones. Only minimal repairing could be made on SS corps in Antwerp due to supply level 1 there:

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Italy last allies turn. Western Allies destroyed 3 German units (1 corps and 2 garrisons) in an offensive launched in central Italy that finally took Ancona:

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Italy Axis turn. With the remaining units, Wehrmacht formed a defensive line along the Arno river. Let's hope for bad weather here:

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Last edited by Vokt on Sun Apr 02, 2017 12:36 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Vokt (axis) vs Plaid (allies) 3.10 AAR

Post by Cybvep » Fri Oct 31, 2014 8:51 pm

The situation in the East is worrying. You have no reserve, so there is almost nothing standing between Berlin and the Red Army.

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Re: Vokt (axis) vs Plaid (allies) 3.10 AAR

Post by richardsd » Fri Oct 31, 2014 8:58 pm

Cybvep wrote:The situation in the East is worrying. You have no reserve, so there is almost nothing standing between Berlin and the Red Army.
except bad weather!

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Re: Vokt (axis) vs Plaid (allies) 3.10 AAR

Post by Cybvep » Fri Oct 31, 2014 10:27 pm

Yes, but good weather turns will come, too. MECHs and ARMs can move very quickly and TACs/STRATs have high range...

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Re: Vokt (axis) vs Plaid (allies) 3.10 AAR

Post by richardsd » Fri Oct 31, 2014 10:50 pm

Cybvep wrote:Yes, but good weather turns will come, too. MECHs and ARMs can move very quickly and TACs/STRATs have high range...
its not that don't agree with you - I'm with Staffenburg - I would have retreated earlier in Russia - this going to be very tight

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Vokt (axis) vs Plaid (allies) 3.10 AAR

Post by Vokt » Fri Oct 31, 2014 11:10 pm

Germany is still producing 140 PP's per turn which is not bad at this stage.
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Vokt (axis) vs Plaid (allies) 3.10 AAR

Post by Vokt » Fri Oct 31, 2014 11:36 pm

Worrying situation in Italy, that demands sending immediately reinforcements to Venice.
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Re: Vokt (axis) vs Plaid (allies) 3.10 AAR

Post by Vokt » Sat Nov 01, 2014 12:57 am

Turn 97. December 3, 1944.

Eastern front last Allies tun (fair weather). Red Army liberated Kiev and Kherson in Ukraine; Pskov, Vitebesk in Russia and Mogilev in Belarus. Germany lost 2 units (corps and garrison) and Romania lost 3 units (1 corps and 2 garrisons) due to Red Army attacks. Airborne operation was launched in Minsk:

Northern sector
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Southern sector
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Eastern front Axis turn. Normal Winter in the East. Withdrawal continued. Railing of units to Germany commenced:

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Western front last Allies turn. Antwerp and Siegfried Line both holds. Time is running out for Allies here:

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Western front Axis turn. US paratrooper in Stuttgart ended at minimal strength after being heavily attacked by a German mech. Previous to the attack by land, Luftwaffe tacs had bombed again referred Allied unit:

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Italy last Allies turn. Bad weather didn't stop Allies offensive in central Italy. A German corps was killed and 2 garrisons were attacked, one being forced to retreat:

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Italy Axis turn. Commanders (Von Arnim in Florence and Schorner in Venice) sent to boost Italy defenses. German corps railed to Venice:

Image

Severe Winter started.
Last edited by Vokt on Sun Apr 02, 2017 12:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Vokt (axis) vs Plaid (allies) 3.10 AAR

Post by Peter Stauffenberg » Sat Nov 01, 2014 2:48 am

This is going to be tight. The Axis can't afford to be unlucky with the weather. Now is the time to rail back as many units as possible from Russia to Germany to man the river lines east of Berlin. The Russians will spend their winter turns just marching to the border.

I wouldn't be worried about the collapse in Italy. Even if there had been no German units there at all it will take some turns for the Allied units to get to the other side of the Alps just by moving. There is no chance these units can be linked up to the units in France. That is because Vichy France is still neutral so no land connection between Italy and France.

I think this game will be decided on when the Siegfried line will be compromised. Once there is a hole in the line the Allied units will ooze through. Still, the Allies need a few turns to march up to Hamburg and Berlin. Because of that I think the Axis player still has a fail chance winning this game. Only one more turn until it's 1945.

As far as I can tell it seems most Axis reinforcements should go to the west. The Luftwaffe units can actually be used as cannon fodder on the ground just to slow down advancing attacking units. Forcingh spearhead Russian tanks to slow down to destroy Luftwaffe units can definitely be worth it.

The Allied player simply has to use these winter turns to send invasion forces north of Holland to get a shot at Hamburg. That is their best Allied chance for a victory. Especially if the forces being landed are armor / mech.

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Re: Vokt (axis) vs Plaid (allies) 3.10 AAR

Post by Vokt » Sat Nov 01, 2014 12:37 pm

Turn 98. December 23, 1944.

Eastern front. In Allies turn, Soviet army is now in full offensive mode. They destroyed a total of 5 Wehrmacht units (4 corps and 1 garrison), taking Minsk and Petrozavodsk. Vinnitsa, Zhitomir and Novgorod all held Soviet attacks. In Axis turn, more railings of units and more retreats. Shots below are at the end of Axis turn.

Image
Image

Western front and Italy. In Allies turn, SS corps defending Antwerp ended at minimal strength, city will probably fall on next turn. Some air attacks to German mech in Stuttgart in support of Allied paratroopers there. Siegfried Line not breached yet. In Italy, attack to Florence commenced. In Axis turn, US paratrooper unit was destroyed and British one attacked. Repairings and railing of more units in Italy:

Image
Last edited by Vokt on Sun Apr 02, 2017 1:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Vokt (axis) vs Plaid (allies) 3.10 AAR

Post by petertodd » Sat Nov 01, 2014 12:55 pm

I think this AAR has the fastest annihilation of the axis armies in the east I have ever seen. Yet it's hard to see how the allies win this game because Berlin seems too far with just 8 allied turns remaining. With the victory conditions as they are--everything depending on the date Berlin and Hamburg fall--this axis strategy kind of makes sense. While I know it is unlikely to ever be changed, I think reworking the victory conditions with a point system could enhance the game a lot. Then there would be incentives for the players to make more realistic trade-offs late in the game.

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Re: Vokt (axis) vs Plaid (allies) 3.10 AAR

Post by Vokt » Sat Nov 01, 2014 2:05 pm

petertodd wrote:I think this AAR has the fastest annihilation of the axis armies in the east I have ever seen. Yet it's hard to see how the allies win this game because Berlin seems too far with just 8 allied turns remaining. With the victory conditions as they are--everything depending on the date Berlin and Hamburg fall--this axis strategy kind of makes sense. While I know it is unlikely to ever be changed, I think reworking the victory conditions with a point system could enhance the game a lot. Then there would be incentives for the players to make more realistic trade-offs late in the game.
But do you really know what the word annihilation means? For me annihilation means that no enemy unit is standing and I see quite a number of German units that have been saved from destruction and that will be railed for good to Germany.

This is a strategic game that cannot reward more the fact that Axis losses in the East have been huge (Soviet ones have been too) than the fact that the Red Army has not been able to reach Berlin in time.
Last edited by Vokt on Thu Mar 30, 2017 6:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Vokt (axis) vs Plaid (allies) 3.10 AAR

Post by Peter Stauffenberg » Sat Nov 01, 2014 3:00 pm

Requiring a certain number of Axis units on the map to be eligible for Axis victory means we change the game balance a bit. That means the Axis player will have to move units to "safer" locations like Norway. It also means the western Allies would want to invade e. g. Norway to destroy these units. That didn't happen in the real war.

What is important is when Germany will surrender. Germany surrenders when both their capital cities are captured. The real Germans surrendered soon after Hamburg and Berlin fell. The Allies bypassed a lot of Axis defenders to enforce an earlier surrender. Thus you had some German forces in Holland, northern Italy, Czechoslovakia, Austria and Norway remaining at the time of surrender. The Allies didn't need to neutralize those forces to reach Berlin and Hamburg.

So I believe the current victory conditions are good enough. Remember that if the Axis get a big hole in their front line then the Russians can just sprint towards Berlin and the pockets of units remaining can just be screened.

I don't think there is something wrong with sacrificing good German units to delay the Allied advance or not give ground when retreat was the only choice. That is exactly what Hitler did. Quite a few of his orders were done against the advise of his generals.

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