Ronnie vs Allied Player

[Cybvep]

IMO you should consider postponing Barbarossa for 1-2 turns. You won't perform uber-Barbarossa, anyway, but you can score a decent one. The first 2 turns are critical - you need to hit the Soviets hard. Set yourself some realistic goals - maybe Leningrad and a solid line in Ukraine? May Barbarossa is probably too ambitious ATM and it may be better to wait a bit rather than underperform, I think. Even Joe Rock didn't start Barbarossa until June in his famous game against Morris.

[rkr1958]

IMO you should consider postponing Barbarossa for 1-2 turns. You won't perform uber-Barbarossa, anyway, but you can score a decent one. The first 2 turns are critical - you need to hit the Soviets hard. Set yourself some realistic goals - maybe Leningrad and a solid line in Ukraine? May Barbarossa is probably too ambitious ATM and it may be better to wait a bit rather than underperform, I think. Even Joe Rock didn't start Barbarossa until June in his famous game against Morris.

Yes, I think a 2 turn delay until turn 34 (June 22, 1941) is probably best. However; I don't like trying to take Leningrad. I find the cost just isn't worth it. I'd rather use these resources to go for Moscow or the oil fields in the Caucuses. Right now the oil in the Caucuses is looking pretty good; but I wouldn't have a chance reaching them until 1942.

[rkr1958]

Turn 25. 12/24/1940 Axis.

1. Breaking the blockade isn't going as well as I'd hoped. The KM DD is (again) taking a beating.

2. A KM BB is deployed to Bremen and next turn a 2nd DD will be too.

3. The build up for Barbarossa continues. I do think I'll wait now until turn 34 (June 22, 1941). This will allow more time for critical builds and the stockpiling of more oil. My oil levels (444) are at least now in the white. Waiting 2 additional turns also means 2 more turns of the leased Russian oil.

4. (Not Shown). The Italian armor corps, fighter and TAC will / are being deployed to the east. The Italian commitment to the English campaign will be the 2 infantry and 1 mech corps already there with the exception of an Italian leader to lead that army.

[dagtwo]

I'm quite enjoying the AAR. Keep up the good work.

[rkr1958]

Turn 26. 1/13/1941 Axis.

1. I've been letting allied convoys have a free hand for too long now. I've split the 6 u-boat flotillas into 2 groups. Group 1 will be my convoy hunters / killers

2-4. Group 2 will support the KM, which now consists of 2 DD and 1 BB squadrons. Their prime objectives are to keep the transport lane open from Europe to England and to break the blockade of Chatham.

5. I moved the Italian fighter back to garrison the hex directly south of Norwich. The UK mech there has been bombed down to 13 efficiency so even if it attacked fighter, which I hope it does instead of repair, it could at most knock a 1-step off.

6. The buildup for Barbarossa continues with the standup of Rommel's command. The Italian leader, Ambrosio, will take command of the Italian army in England.

7. Axis oil levels are finally nearing a semi-respectable level.

[Peter Stauffenberg]

Will you break out from the current position in England before Barbarossa? There won't be many turns the air units can do that in the west before they have to fly east.
If they attack in the west they will be pretty low on morale when coming east.

It could be that a good option is to get full control in England in the first half of 1941 and launch a Barbarossa with less air support. The main goal could be to get to the Dnepr at least. Then you could hold for the winter there with a double defense line.

If the goal is the Don line in 1941 then the Luftwaffe will have to fly to the east now so they can rest a bit before the start of Barbarossa.

I think lack of oil can become an issue here. Fighting both in the west and Russia in 1941 will drain the oil reserves quite a lot.

The Allied player can quickly regain England if they're not overrun. You need to take all ports so they can't easily land reinforcements once USA join the Allies.

[rkr1958]

Will you break out from the current position in England before Barbarossa? There won't be many turns the air units can do that in the west before they have to fly east.
If they attack in the west they will be pretty low on morale when coming east.

In the screen cap above I plan only to transfer the 2 German TACs east of Liege and the Italian fighter to the Russian front. The rest, 3 TACs, 1 SAC and 3 fighters will continue to support Sea Lion.

It could be that a good option is to get full control in England in the first half of 1941 and launch a Barbarossa with less air support. The main goal could be to get to the Dnepr at least. Then you could hold for the winter there with a double defense line.

That's exactly how my plans are shaping up. More my hopes really. The British have no air support so once I get fair weather, a port and 3-4 more German corps in England I think I should be able to roll right over the British.

If the goal is the Don line in 1941 then the Luftwaffe will have to fly to the east now so they can rest a bit before the start of Barbarossa.

I don't plan to go that far. One thing I do know about my opponent is that he loves to go for Finland right from the start. Which I really don't mind. Generally I send 2 - 3 corps and a couple of fighters to hold the Russians at bay. The upside is that he's wasting a lot of good Soviet forces and resources attacking into Finland.

I think lack of oil can become an issue here. Fighting both in the west and Russia in 1941 will drain the oil reserves quite a lot.

Yes! That is my #1 concern. I planning to rely heavily on infantry, fighters and u-boats when I need to transition to the defensive.

The Allied player can quickly regain England if they're not overrun. You need to take all ports so they can't easily land reinforcements once USA join the Allies.

Yes, I agree 100%. I really didn't plan or even want Sea Lion. But; when it's offered up on a platter it's hard to turn down. Now I have it whether I want it or not.

[richardsd]

well I think you will have major difficulty getting control of the UK - if I was the UK player you would find a sea of GAR's all the way to scapa flow

he doesn't have to beat you, just delay enough to weaken Barbarossa and then get the US into Scotland

time will tell

[rkr1958]

Turn 28. 2/22/1941 Axis.

1. In the west, the KM and Luftwaffe are starting to make some headway towards breaking the blockade of Chatham. Unfortunately, the poor weather provide unwanted coverage to the bothersome UK sub group.

2. German u-boats spied a UK convoy docking in Cardiff. A flotilla supported by Luftwaffe fighters managed to take 3-steps off. Again, the poor weather reduced the effectiveness of these attacks.

3. 2 TACs are moved to the Eastern Front in preparation now slated for Barbarossa turn 34 (6/22/41).

4. I know my opponent will make a strong move into Finland from the start of the invasion. To counter this I will send 2 infantry transports and 2 fighters on the opening turn of the invasion.

5. My build plans between now and the start of Barbarossa are 2 additional German fighters, 1 TAC, 1 ARM and 4 infantry corps. Not shown in the East, are an Italian mech, infantry corps, German infantry corps and 2 axis minors infantry corps that will make their way East and be in position on June 22.

6. The Germans have max'ed out their labs. Once their war effort reaches 12, I plan to build a 3rd infantry lab.

7. The Italians will build 2 more labs, both in naval.

I believe my key to holding off the western allies are fighters, u-boats and infantry corps. For the Soviets, its fighters, mechs and infantry corps. Though I need to hurt the Soviets to have a chance in the East.

On the up side my oil levels ended at 534. Not too bad!

[OxfordGuy3]

BTW, back-tracking a bit, was wondering why you chose to buy Guderian so early? Isn't Runstedt usually enough for Case Yellow? Would've thought buying a lab earlier or another FTR or MECH/ARM are usually more useful at that stage of the war, although I guess it does give you the flexibility to ensure your air units are lead by at least one HQ, whilst Guderian spearheads the Blitzkrieg, and the Germans do need 2 or 3 HQs (total) in time for Barbarossa anyway. Also, if going for another HQ, I would've been tempted by Manstein next, but I assume you couldn't afford him?

[rkr1958]

BTW, back-tracking a bit, was wondering why you chose to buy Guderian so early? Isn't Runstedt usually enough for Case Yellow? Would've thought buying a lab earlier or another FTR or MECH/ARM are usually more useful at that stage of the war, although I guess it does give you the flexibility to ensure your air units are lead by at least one HQ, whilst Guderian spearheads the Blitzkrieg, and the Germans do need 2 or 3 HQs (total) in time for Barbarossa anyway. Also, if going for another HQ, I would've been tempted by Manstein next, but I assume you couldn't afford him?

I like to have 2 leaders for Case Yellow. One to command the advancing troops and one to command the air units in the rear. I use to buy a 5-0-0 leader (e.g., Bock, Kluge, List) for 35 PP's to command the air and use Rundstedt to command the troops. However; my Case Yellow strategy has evolved to where I usually buy Guderian (7-1-0) for 70 PP's to not only command; but lead with the +1 attack, the advancing troops. This cost me an additional 35 PP's for Case Yellow; but experience has taught me it's well worth it. Why Guderian (7-1-0) versus Manstein (8-1-1)? Well, it's the extra 20 PP's, which are sorely needed at this stage of the game for finishing repairs prior to Case Yellow.

Also, my Yugoslavia strategy (adopted from Joe St. Rock), requires that I have an armor unit with a +1 attack leader in Hungary ready to go on turn 20 (September 15, 1940). Depending on how long it takes to conquer France, the time to transition from Case Yellow to the Balkans can be tight. Especially for a July / August 6 fall of France. So, having an armor with Guderian means that I can rail him in place, even as late as turn 19 (8/26/1940) and still be ready to go.

[OxfordGuy3]

Case White Statistics.

Hi - when doing your statistics, is the PP and MP cost that you're recording for the the full PP and MP cost or the discounted replacement cost (e.g.. 60% for ground units for both)?

Also I don't understand what the manual says about the discounted MP cost - on p.182 it says:

"Changed manpower consumption for repairs so that it uses the same discount as for PP repairs.
Land & air units use 60% and naval units 80%.

The example for infantry repairing from 7 to 10 steps should look like:
7 * (100%-20%) = 7 * 0.8 = 5.6 manpower"

But wouldn't the full manpower cost of repair from 7 to 10 steps only by 3 manpower (given that it only costs 10 MP to replace the whole unit) and only 1.8 MP with the 60% discount?

[OxfordGuy3]

BTW, back-tracking a bit, was wondering why you chose to buy Guderian so early? Isn't Runstedt usually enough for Case Yellow? Would've thought buying a lab earlier or another FTR or MECH/ARM are usually more useful at that stage of the war, although I guess it does give you the flexibility to ensure your air units are lead by at least one HQ, whilst Guderian spearheads the Blitzkrieg, and the Germans do need 2 or 3 HQs (total) in time for Barbarossa anyway. Also, if going for another HQ, I would've been tempted by Manstein next, but I assume you couldn't afford him?

I like to have 2 leaders for Case Yellow. One to command the advancing troops and one to command the air units in the rear. I use to buy a 5-0-0 leader (e.g., Bock, Kluge, List) for 35 PP's to command the air and use Rundstedt to command the troops. However; my Case Yellow strategy has evolved to where I usually buy Guderian (7-1-0) for 70 PP's to not only command; but lead with the +1 attack, the advancing troops. This cost me an additional 35 PP's for Case Yellow; but experience has taught me it's well worth it. Why Guderian (7-1-0) versus Manstein (8-1-1)? Well, it's the extra 20 PP's, which are sorely needed at this stage of the game for finishing repairs prior to Case Yellow.

Also, my Yugoslavia strategy (adopted from Joe St. Rock), requires that I have an armor unit with a +1 attack leader in Hungary ready to go on turn 20 (September 15, 1940). Depending on how long it takes to conquer France, the time to transition from Case Yellow to the Balkans can be tight. Especially for a July / August 6 fall of France. So, having an armor with Guderian means that I can rail him in place, even as late as turn 19 (8/26/1940) and still be ready to go.

Okay, I see - and placing the leader on the armour before Case Yellow means that you don't waste a turn doing this later, when things are tight, interesting.

Also - why did you build the FTR before the TAC, given that the latter takes longer to build? Was this due to lack of PPs or that you wanted the fighter in place early, so that, for example, it could gain some much-needed effectiveness before facing the allied airforces (which can be considerable, if they commit a carrier or two to the defence of France)?

[rkr1958]

Hi - when doing your statistics, is the PP and MP cost that you're recording for the the full PP and MP cost or the discounted replacement cost (e.g.. 60% for ground units for both)?

It's the replacement cost unless I've lost a unit then its the full cost. For example, say the infantry losses were 42(1), meaning 42 infantry steps and 1 infantry corps lost. Assuming all there losses were corps, and not garrisons, then the cost in PP's = (32 x 3.5 x 0.6) + 35 = 102.2 PP's and the cost in MP = (32 x 1 x 0.6) + 10 = 35.6 MP points. Of course the MP percentage would by that value divided by the MP for 100%, or 1058 for Germany. So the % MP lost would equal 3.36%.

Also I don't understand what the manual says about the discounted MP cost - on p.182 it says:

"Changed manpower consumption for repairs so that it uses the same discount as for PP repairs. Land & air units use 60% and naval units 80%.

The example for infantry repairing from 7 to 10 steps should look like: 7 * (100%-20%) = 7 * 0.8 = 5.6 manpower"

But wouldn't the full manpower cost of repair from 7 to 10 steps only by 3 manpower (given that it only costs 10 MP to replace the whole unit) and only 1.8 MP with the 60% discount?

Truthfully, I haven't read through the manual in that detail. I'm still using 80% for replacing infantry corps steps and not 60%. I just did a quick hotseat test where I knocked 5-steps off a German infantry corps and then repaired it back to full strength the next turn. Total German manpower went from 885 before the repair to 881 after. If MP replacement was 60% then it should have only cost me .6 x 5 = 3 points. However, 4pts (=0.8x5) is consistent the 80% MP replacement cost that I'm using. Maybe the change, which the manual was referring to, was from 100% replacement cost to 80% for MP?

Okay, I see - and placing the leader on the armour before Case Yellow means that you don't waste a turn doing this later, when things are tight, interesting.

Sure and the fact that I don't need to buy a 3rd leader for the Balkans. Guderian is doing double duty.

Also - why did you build the FTR before the TAC, given that the latter takes longer to build? Was this due to lack of PPs or that you wanted the fighter in place early, so that, for example, it could gain some much-needed effectiveness before facing the allied airforces (which can be considerable, if they commit a carrier or two to the defence of France)?

Both fighters and TAC take the same length to build, which is 3 turns. I like to build the 3 fighter first in order to have the CAP in place to counter an aggressive allied player would might bring the French fighter, RAF fighter and RN CV into the action against my Sitz for the case when the weather is fair on turn 9 (2/8/40), which is the turn that I deploy my 3 TAC. For 75% of my Sitzs, I have 3 fighters and 3 TACs ready to go when I launch Case Yellow.

[OxfordGuy3]

Hi - when doing your statistics, is the PP and MP cost that you're recording for the the full PP and MP cost or the discounted replacement cost (e.g.. 60% for ground units for both)?

It's the replacement cost unless I've lost a unit then its the full cost. For example, say the infantry losses were 42(1), meaning 42 infantry steps and 1 infantry corps lost. Assuming all there losses were corps, and not garrisons, then the cost in PP's = (32 x 3.5 x 0.6) + 35 = 102.2 PP's and the cost in MP = (32 x 1 x 0.6) + 10 = 35.6 MP points. Of course the MP percentage would by that value divided by the MP for 100%, or 1058 for Germany. So the % MP lost would equal 3.36%.

Also I don't understand what the manual says about the discounted MP cost - on p.182 it says:

"Changed manpower consumption for repairs so that it uses the same discount as for PP repairs. Land & air units use 60% and naval units 80%.

The example for infantry repairing from 7 to 10 steps should look like: 7 * (100%-20%) = 7 * 0.8 = 5.6 manpower"

But wouldn't the full manpower cost of repair from 7 to 10 steps only by 3 manpower (given that it only costs 10 MP to replace the whole unit) and only 1.8 MP with the 60% discount?

Truthfully, I haven't read through the manual in that detail. I'm still using 80% for replacing infantry corps steps and not 60%. I just did a quick hotseat test where I knocked 5-steps off a German infantry corps and then repaired it back to full strength the next turn. Total German manpower went from 885 before the repair to 881 after. If MP replacement was 60% then it should have only cost me .6 x 5 = 3 points. However, 4pts (=0.8x5) is consistent the 80% MP replacement cost that I'm using. Maybe the change, which the manual was referring to, was from 100% replacement cost to 80% for MP?

Are you playing with 3.0 or 3.0.1? Perhaps the PP/ MP cost for land units is still 80% for 3.0? I'm playing with 3.0, if you're interested in reports from my games, should I assume the 80% replacement discount for both PP and MP (or just for the latter)?

Okay, I see - and placing the leader on the armour before Case Yellow means that you don't waste a turn doing this later, when things are tight, interesting.

Sure and the fact that I don't need to buy a 3rd leader for the Balkans. Guderian is doing double duty.

Also - why did you build the FTR before the TAC, given that the latter takes longer to build? Was this due to lack of PPs or that you wanted the fighter in place early, so that, for example, it could gain some much-needed effectiveness before facing the allied airforces (which can be considerable, if they commit a carrier or two to the defence of France)?

Both fighters and TAC take the same length to build, which is 3 turns. I like to build the 3 fighter first in order to have the CAP in place to counter an aggressive allied player would might bring the French fighter, RAF fighter and RN CV into the action against my Sitz for the case when the weather is fair on turn 9 (2/8/40), which is the turn that I deploy my 3 TAC. For 75% of my Sitzs, I have 3 fighters and 3 TACs ready to go when I launch Case Yellow.

Ah yes, all units take 3 turns to build, not sure why I thought it was 4!

[rkr1958]

Are you playing with 3.0 or 3.0.1? Perhaps the PP/ MP cost for land units is still 80% for 3.0? I'm playing with 3.0, if you're interested in reports from my games, should I assume the 80% replacement discount for both PP and MP (or just for the latter)?

I'm playing with 3.01; but I've been using 80% for infantry MP before 3.0 was released. So, I don't think there was a MP replacement cost change between 3.0 and 3.01.

[OxfordGuy3]

Are you playing with 3.0 or 3.0.1? Perhaps the PP/ MP cost for land units is still 80% for 3.0? I'm playing with 3.0, if you're interested in reports from my games, should I assume the 80% replacement discount for both PP and MP (or just for the latter)?

I'm playing with 3.01; but I've been using 80% for infantry MP before 3.0 was released. So, I don't think there was a MP replacement cost change between 3.0 and 3.01.

Hmm.. strange, maybe MP is still at the 80% rate then. Is land PP at 60%, though, for both 3.0 and 3.01

[rkr1958]

Turn 29. 3/14/1941 Axis.

1. Dang UK sub group! I attacked it with 1 BB, 2 DDs, 1 Strat and 1 fighter. It evaded by DD and the Strat attack! If I could get metal on metal then those subs would be gone and the blockade broken.

2. Norwich is hanging tough too. I moved 2 German corps to attack after hitting the defenders with 2 TAC attacks. Still they held. Next turn maybe.

3. The Luftwaffe hit a RN CV and 2 DDs knocking off 5 or 6 steps total. The more I hurt the RN the more I hurt the UK's economy.

4. 2 u-boat flotillas take up position to interdict convoys entering the Irish Sea from the north.

5. I'm going to rotate my u-boats through port to upgrade, which will start next turn.

6. Fighter and infantry corps bought and in the queue for Barbarossa.

7. Oil levels are very respectable.

[Peter Stauffenberg]

Why not making an amph landing near Southampton to bypass the blocking UK units. That port should fall soon. If you land 2 units near Southampton you either take the city or the UK will have to fall back to hold the city. That means your forward units can push on.

[rkr1958]

Hmm.. strange, maybe MP is still at the 80% rate then. Is land PP at 60%, though, for both 3.0 and 3.01

Yes.