FoG:AM v3 Lost Lists

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nikgaukroger
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FoG:AM v3 Lost Lists

Post by nikgaukroger » Fri Nov 10, 2017 7:36 am

With the contraction of the v1 lists to 2, albeit much larger, book some armies have gotten lost. To amuse myself I'm going to post some of them here as I would have drafted them for v3.

Obviously wholly unofficial and if they had been in the official books they may well have been adjusted to a greater or lesser extent by Terry, etc. However, they may be of interest to somebody.
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Re: FoG:AM v3 Lost Lists

Post by nikgaukroger » Fri Nov 10, 2017 7:38 am

Inspired by Paul Chouinard on the FoG:AM Facebook page - https://www.facebook.com/groups/1726636790966631/ - here is a Lydian list (previously in Immortal Fire).

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Re: FoG:AM v3 Lost Lists

Post by nikgaukroger » Fri Nov 10, 2017 8:10 am

And Neo-Babylonian Empire for the same reason (previously in Swifter than Eagles).

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Re: FoG:AM v3 Lost Lists

Post by berthier » Fri Nov 10, 2017 11:33 am

Thanks for sharing Nik.
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Re: FoG:AM v3 Lost Lists

Post by nikgaukroger » Fri Nov 10, 2017 12:24 pm

berthier wrote:Thanks for sharing Nik.
I might be open to requests 8) :lol:
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Re: FoG:AM v3 Lost Lists

Post by dave_r » Fri Nov 10, 2017 4:24 pm

Shouldn't the lf jls be 5 points and the lh jls 8 points in the Lydian list?

Surprised none of the cavalry are elite as household guards.
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Re: FoG:AM v3 Lost Lists

Post by shadowdragon » Fri Nov 10, 2017 7:11 pm

dave_r wrote:Shouldn't the lf jls be 5 points and the lh jls 8 points in the Lydian list?

Surprised none of the cavalry are elite as household guards.
Yes, that’s what I got for the LF JLS - unprotected, average undrilled = 4 + javelin 1 + LS 0 = 5

But, 7 for LH: unprotected, average undrilled = 5 + javelin 1 + LS 1 = 7

ETA - The Lydian chariots should be 16 points.
Last edited by shadowdragon on Sat Nov 11, 2017 3:46 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: FoG:AM v3 Lost Lists

Post by grahambriggs » Fri Nov 10, 2017 9:24 pm

dave_r wrote:Shouldn't the lf jls be 5 points and the lh jls 8 points in the Lydian list?

Surprised none of the cavalry are elite as household guards.
Welcome to the heady world of proof reading. I was surprised the Lydians were allowed 24 superior armoured cavalry and no compulsory average ones.

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Re: FoG:AM v3 Lost Lists

Post by dave_r » Fri Nov 10, 2017 10:12 pm

grahambriggs wrote:
dave_r wrote:Shouldn't the lf jls be 5 points and the lh jls 8 points in the Lydian list?

Surprised none of the cavalry are elite as household guards.
Welcome to the heady world of proof reading. I was surprised the Lydians were allowed 24 superior armoured cavalry and no compulsory average ones.
Well, they were generally regarded as better than Persians, so I'm not surprised they can all be Superior.
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Re: FoG:AM v3 Lost Lists

Post by nikgaukroger » Sat Nov 11, 2017 8:36 pm

grahambriggs wrote: I was surprised the Lydians were allowed 24 superior armoured cavalry and no compulsory average ones.
They probably should have - thought we had a list or so that allowed that many without any compulsory average, but checking shows that not to be the case.

So I've tweaked the list a bit - updated version in the original post (to avoid having multiple versions in the same topic).
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Re: FoG:AM v3 Lost Lists

Post by shadowdragon » Sat Nov 11, 2017 8:51 pm

For neo-babs 2nd “other cav” entry did you mean it as is (all JLS BG) or did you intend 1/2 JLS and half bow/sw?

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Re: FoG:AM v3 Lost Lists

Post by nikgaukroger » Sun Nov 12, 2017 10:18 am

All JLS, Sw no 1/2:1/2 option. If you want the Other Cavalry as shooters you have to use the Bow* option.
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Re: FoG:AM v3 Lost Lists

Post by shadowdragon » Sun Nov 12, 2017 3:11 pm

nikgaukroger wrote:All JLS, Sw no 1/2:1/2 option. If you want the Other Cavalry as shooters you have to use the Bow* option.
That’s what I understood. Thanks for the confirmation.

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Re: FoG:AM v3 Lost Lists

Post by Intothevalley » Tue Nov 14, 2017 9:27 pm

Having just received the 1st army list book I was a bit disappointed to see that three of the armies I own no longer have a list (somewhat offset by one of my armies getting a bit of a boost), so I guess I'll need my own lists for friendly games (I'm assuming they'll be right out for competitions soon). Is it reasonably safe to just port over the version 1 lists with points values appropriately modified, or are there some general principles for amending the version 1 lists further to fit in with the v3 rules (e.g. fewer superior troops and light foot/light horse, etc., more average/poor troops).

Also, in the notes for Later Minoan or Early Mycenaean it states tantalisingly that the 'The Later Mycenaean period is covered by its own list', but I couldn't find this list in book 1 (maybe my eyesight/skimming capabilities needs some attention) - is it intended to put this list in one of the other books - I wasn't expecting it as I'd assumed the later books would cover later periods.

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Re: FoG:AM v3 Lost Lists

Post by nikgaukroger » Tue Nov 14, 2017 10:06 pm

Intothevalley wrote: Also, in the notes for Later Minoan or Early Mycenaean it states tantalisingly that the 'The Later Mycenaean period is covered by its own list', but I couldn't find this list in book 1 (maybe my eyesight/skimming capabilities needs some attention) - is it intended to put this list in one of the other books - I wasn't expecting it as I'd assumed the later books would cover later periods.
Something from the original list that wasn't deleted and wasn't picked up in proof reading I'm afraid.
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Re: FoG:AM v3 Lost Lists

Post by nikgaukroger » Tue Nov 14, 2017 10:08 pm

Just for you, a Later Mykenaian list as it might have been if it had made the cut.

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Re: FoG:AM v3 Lost Lists

Post by berthier » Wed Nov 15, 2017 10:13 am

Good stuff, Nik. Hopefully you get stuck in many more boring hotel rooms. :)
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Re: FoG:AM v3 Lost Lists

Post by Intothevalley » Wed Nov 15, 2017 1:42 pm

Yes thanks very much for this Nik. I note that the chariots have been amended to be average by default with an option to upgrade a proportion to superior - is that a generally applicable rule where version 1 lists had the equivalent troops as superior by default?

Also one other thing I noted in the new lists - in the Warring States list it looks like the numbers of poor 'conscript' troops have been reduced in the v2 lists (up to 20) compared to the v1 lists (up to 64 IIRC) - is it a general rule to reduce numbers of poor troops to stop too much lower points value 'filler' being taken?

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Re: FoG:AM v3 Lost Lists

Post by nikgaukroger » Wed Nov 15, 2017 2:25 pm

Intothevalley wrote:Yes thanks very much for this Nik. I note that the chariots have been amended to be average by default with an option to upgrade a proportion to superior - is that a generally applicable rule where version 1 lists had the equivalent troops as superior by default?
I think, but having not seen the final drafts I cannot be sure what the team will have actually done, that the most common way of restricting troops (especially mounted) that were previously all Superior is to mandate a minimum number that must be taken as Average rather than using the upgrade route. The effect at the maximum allowed is, however, usually about the same with 1/3 Average and 2/3 Superior.

If you are looking to convert other missing lists, however, the upgrade approach as in the above is perfectly good approach IMO.

Also one other thing I noted in the new lists - in the Warring States list it looks like the numbers of poor 'conscript' troops have been reduced in the v2 lists (up to 20) compared to the v1 lists (up to 64 IIRC) - is it a general rule to reduce numbers of poor troops to stop too much lower points value 'filler' being taken?
Basically, yes. Also Poor light troops are almost all removed - filler that can easily escape being a bad thing for the game.
Nik Gaukroger

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If he does not, why humiliate him?" - Canon Sydney Smith

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Re: FoG:AM v3 Lost Lists

Post by Intothevalley » Wed Nov 15, 2017 8:44 pm

nikgaukroger wrote:
Intothevalley wrote:it looks like the numbers of poor 'conscript' troops have been reduced in the v2 lists (up to 20) compared to the v1 lists (up to 64 IIRC) - is it a general rule to reduce numbers of poor troops to stop too much lower points value 'filler' being taken?
Basically, yes. Also Poor light troops are almost all removed - filler that can easily escape being a bad thing for the game.
Thanks for the clarification, really useful - sorry to keep on but do you have an idea what is done with v1 lists that have compulsory poor troops - are the numbers kept the same, or is the minima/maxima reduced - I'm thinking about the Early Zhou list but I think this situation might apply to a few others as well. Should previously poor troops be changed to average?

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