The new scoring system...
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Re: The new scoring system...
I've seen some reposted on The Page That Cannot be Named http://theminiaturespage.com/boards/topics.mv?id=63
http://www.madaxeman.com
Holiday in Devon? Try https://www.thecaptainscottagebrixham.com
Holiday in Devon? Try https://www.thecaptainscottagebrixham.com
Re: The new scoring system...
Bugger! I'm barred plus it's not easy to follow that site.madaxeman wrote: ↑Mon Jul 16, 2018 12:49 pm I've seen some reposted on The Page That Cannot be Named http://theminiaturespage.com/boards/topics.mv?id=63
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Re: The new scoring system...
Blimey, is that creaky old thing still going!
Nik Gaukroger
"Never ask a man if he comes from Yorkshire. If he does, he will tell you.
If he does not, why humiliate him?" - Canon Sydney Smith
nikgaukroger@blueyonder.co.uk
"Never ask a man if he comes from Yorkshire. If he does, he will tell you.
If he does not, why humiliate him?" - Canon Sydney Smith
nikgaukroger@blueyonder.co.uk
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Re: The new scoring system...
Can't believe we're up to 6 pages on this....however I believe there are some things in this thread that may be worthy of further consideration.
Dan Hazelwood from the States told me recently that he awards prizes for those at the bottom of the results table of a competition. These can be terrain / figures etc and are designed to encourage continued participation. Those on the podium still get trophies but no added prizes. I think this is something that the BHGS could consider adopting?
I have the email addresses for most of the regular competition participants and we do communicate as and when the need arises. I do not have yours Chris but if you’d like to remind me of it via PM I’ll happily add you to my list. And if anyone else would like to do the same please feel free.
I like the idea of a handicap system and we’ve discussed doing something similar at our club as you should at MAWS if you wish to. On reflection though I can’t see this has any mileage or justification for the competition circuit. I’ll give you a couple of examples as to why. We have several good FoG players at our Hampshire club who enter Belgarum and sometimes Warfare. But due to family / travelling restrictions they, thus far, are unable to go to events that are further afield. I suspect that is the case for many people around the country. So giving them additional AP will not make any difference to them attending more events. Having mentioned Warfare – this is already fully booked for FoG and several other periods. Several regular FoG tournament players are on a waiting list. So we are already over-subscribed.
Another example. Graham Evans is an excellent FoG player who for various reasons has not played for a while. As a result he is way down the rankings and presumably would be in line for a positive handicap with your proposal? I’d certainly back him to win on that basis which doesn’t seem very fair to the rest of us.
A final example - I was given a damn good thrashing at Belgarum by an unranked player. I think he was pretty chuffed. I suspect the win would not have tasted quite so sweet if he had been awarded a shed load more points to give me an excuse for losing.
Dan Hazelwood from the States told me recently that he awards prizes for those at the bottom of the results table of a competition. These can be terrain / figures etc and are designed to encourage continued participation. Those on the podium still get trophies but no added prizes. I think this is something that the BHGS could consider adopting?
I have the email addresses for most of the regular competition participants and we do communicate as and when the need arises. I do not have yours Chris but if you’d like to remind me of it via PM I’ll happily add you to my list. And if anyone else would like to do the same please feel free.
I like the idea of a handicap system and we’ve discussed doing something similar at our club as you should at MAWS if you wish to. On reflection though I can’t see this has any mileage or justification for the competition circuit. I’ll give you a couple of examples as to why. We have several good FoG players at our Hampshire club who enter Belgarum and sometimes Warfare. But due to family / travelling restrictions they, thus far, are unable to go to events that are further afield. I suspect that is the case for many people around the country. So giving them additional AP will not make any difference to them attending more events. Having mentioned Warfare – this is already fully booked for FoG and several other periods. Several regular FoG tournament players are on a waiting list. So we are already over-subscribed.
Another example. Graham Evans is an excellent FoG player who for various reasons has not played for a while. As a result he is way down the rankings and presumably would be in line for a positive handicap with your proposal? I’d certainly back him to win on that basis which doesn’t seem very fair to the rest of us.
A final example - I was given a damn good thrashing at Belgarum by an unranked player. I think he was pretty chuffed. I suspect the win would not have tasted quite so sweet if he had been awarded a shed load more points to give me an excuse for losing.
Pete
Re: The new scoring system...
Any golfers in the house?petedalby wrote: ↑Mon Jul 16, 2018 5:27 pm Can't believe we're up to 6 pages on this....however I believe there are some things in this thread that may be worthy of further consideration.
I like the idea of a handicap system and we’ve discussed doing something similar at our club as you should at MAWS if you wish to. On reflection though I can’t see this has any mileage or justification for the competition circuit.
Re: The new scoring system...
Interesting viewpoint. I looks like you have assumed that the handicap was that mentioned by Chris based on extra army points so 800 vs 850 for example. The above is not unambiguous.
Of course the handicap could be in VP with both of you using 800 point armies. Then after your trashing your opponent can revel in his victory safe in the knowledge that his handicap played no part whatsoever (unless it forced you to be stupidly aggressive).
Another advantage would be that it could be calculated in advance by the list checker and no player would have to bring more troops than they would normally.
Re: The new scoring system...
Graham could waive his handicap.petedalby wrote: ↑Mon Jul 16, 2018 5:27 pmAnother example. Graham Evans is an excellent FoG player who for various reasons has not played for a while. As a result he is way down the rankings and presumably would be in line for a positive handicap with your proposal? I’d certainly back him to win on that basis which doesn’t seem very fair to the rest of us.
Re: The new scoring system...
I agree travel can be an issue but we're not looking for a panacea but something to have some positive impact especially with new or casual players to increase the pool of tournament FOG AM players.petedalby wrote: ↑Mon Jul 16, 2018 5:27 pm I like the idea of a handicap system and we’ve discussed doing something similar at our club as you should at MAWS if you wish to. On reflection though I can’t see this has any mileage or justification for the competition circuit. I’ll give you a couple of examples as to why. We have several good FoG players at our Hampshire club who enter Belgarum and sometimes Warfare. But due to family / travelling restrictions they, thus far, are unable to go to events that are further afield. I suspect that is the case for many people around the country. So giving them additional AP will not make any difference to them attending more events.
A handicap system will not fit every circumstance and to be honest I doesn't sound as if the players you mention are the real target of such a system: they sound too good. And as I've said already, they can always waive their handicap if they are that good.
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Re: The new scoring system...
Sounds like you already have the makings of a FOG-AM Players' Association. Might increase your workload but what a valuable addition it would be.I have the email addresses for most of the regular competition participants and we do communicate as and when the need arises. I do not have yours Chris but if you’d like to remind me of it via PM I’ll happily add you to my list. And if anyone else would like to do the same please feel free.
I've sent you my e-mail address by PM, Pete. And thank you for your considered response to some of the suggestions made. Your's and Martin Stephenson's 'voices of reason' were a pleasant relief from the 'can't do/won't work/illegal/impossible/etc' torrents of others.
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Re: The new scoring system...
PMSL
Have you ever met him?
phil
putting the arg into argumentative, except for the lists I check where there is no argument!
putting the arg into argumentative, except for the lists I check where there is no argument!
Re: The new scoring system...
Thanks Chris.ChrisTofalos wrote: ↑Mon Jul 16, 2018 8:25 pmSounds like you already have the makings of a FOG-AM Players' Association. Might increase your workload but what a valuable addition it would be.I have the email addresses for most of the regular competition participants and we do communicate as and when the need arises. I do not have yours Chris but if you’d like to remind me of it via PM I’ll happily add you to my list. And if anyone else would like to do the same please feel free.
I've sent you my e-mail address by PM, Pete. And thank you for your considered response to some of the suggestions made. Your's and Martin Stephenson's 'voices of reason' were a pleasant relief from the 'can't do/won't work/illegal/impossible/etc' torrents of others.
Evaluator of Supremacy
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Re: The new scoring system...
Exactly
phil
putting the arg into argumentative, except for the lists I check where there is no argument!
putting the arg into argumentative, except for the lists I check where there is no argument!
Re: The new scoring system...
I don't enter enough competitions to get a good ranking score so I shall look forward to my handicap.
It's like advanced submarining!
It's like advanced submarining!
Re: The new scoring system...
I doubt a simple system based on current rankings will work because the rankings depend on the number of tournaments played as well as the outcome of games.
We probably need something based just on results. So if you did well in your last outing don't expect a large handicap even if it was two years ago.
Re: The new scoring system...
The rankings are based purely on results and not games....vexillia wrote: ↑Tue Jul 17, 2018 7:59 amI doubt a simple system based on current rankings will work because the rankings depend on the number of tournaments played as well as the outcome of games.
We probably need something based just on results. So if you did well in your last outing don't expect a large handicap even if it was two years ago.
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Re: The new scoring system...
But, IIRC, they are for just 12 months results and you cannot get a "full" ranking unless you do 6 (?) comps. So a good player who hasn't played recently, or plays occasionally, will be ranked low even if their last games were all victories.
Nik Gaukroger
"Never ask a man if he comes from Yorkshire. If he does, he will tell you.
If he does not, why humiliate him?" - Canon Sydney Smith
nikgaukroger@blueyonder.co.uk
"Never ask a man if he comes from Yorkshire. If he does, he will tell you.
If he does not, why humiliate him?" - Canon Sydney Smith
nikgaukroger@blueyonder.co.uk
Re: The new scoring system...
Hmm! I was confused by this from the BHGS site:
Looking at the ELO rankings (if they are used) gave me a headache this early in the morning. Worryingly they look incomplete. But they too are dependent on the number of games played. A good player with a small number of good results will still have a lower ranking than a regular player who's played a lot of mediocre opposition.BHGS - FoG Rankings
- The number of tournaments required for a full ranking is four
- Only a players best four tournaments will count towards the rankings ...
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Re: The new scoring system...
Exactly, Martin. Some sort of system based on rankings AND previous results is the way to go. Peter, you won Britcon not long ago! Don't think you'd qualify by any stretch of the imagination.prb4 wrote: ↑17 Jul 2018 07:44
I don't enter enough competitions to get a good ranking score so I shall look forward to my handicap.
I doubt a simple system based on current rankings will work because the rankings depend on the number of tournaments played as well as the outcome of games.
We probably need something based just on results. So if you did well in your last outing don't expect a large handicap even if it was two years ago.
Re: The new scoring system...
The ELO rankings don't work. We've been down this route many, many times....
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Re: The new scoring system...
Don't fall out with me, Dave. I like you, you've always got a smile on your face (and not always alcohol-induced!) and you've earned the respect of all FOG players at MAWS (and, no doubt, elsewhere). But I think you're wrong on this one.Thanks Chris.
Some of the replies I've received border on trolling and I actually felt my blood pressure rising - which is not good at my age! That's what prompted my reply.
The order of the day should be, what can we do to bring in more FOG players, and if other rules have to follow suit, so what?