This years Doubles and Pairs events take place over 2 weekends in October.
The Ancients & Renaissance Doubles in 2016 will be on the weekend 22-23 October (just like what it says on the BHGS website and Facebook event page... )
The BHGS Ancients Doubles competition covers
FoGAM
DBMM
FoGR
L'Art de la Guerre
Mortem et Gloriam
The earlier weekend of 8/9 October plays host to the Pairs competition for FoW
Both events take place at Battlefield Hobbies in Daventry
Tickets on sale soon
Last edited by madaxeman on Mon Apr 25, 2016 10:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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This years Doubles combines a FoGR event with parallel competitions for 4 different sets of Ancient rules, and takes place on the weekend 22-23 October.
The BHGS Ancients & Renaissance Doubles competition covers FoGAM, DBMM, FoGR, L'Art de la Guerre and Mortem et Gloriam. All 5 events will be played in 15mm and are for teams of 2 players, each commanding around half of a larger-than-normal army on a standard-sized table. Entry fees are per team of two people.
The event will take place at Battlefield Hobbies in Daventry
Is this going to use V3 of the rules as posted on here?
How do the allies work, please explain. I assume two armies that must normally be allowed to be allied, but only 500pts from each. Are minimums and maximums altered? Is it a strict 500pts per ally/army
phil
putting the arg into argumentative, except for the lists I check where there is no argument!
I'm waiting on Dave Fairhust to confirm the AM rules.
As I understand Davids intention is to use the suggestions Terry has posted in the initial post on each section of the V3 beta boards, although I suspect that there is also a need to lock them down as they appear to be prone to change....
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Holiday in Devon? Try https://www.thecaptainscottagebrixham.com
Phil
This years doubles are just 1000pt armies ,designed as you like with or without allies.
I will be using the v3 rules on here,complete with typos, these are the main body of proposals to be tested so unless something totally unreasonable is unearthed in testing, shouldn't change.
I am going to attempt with my limited technical skills to put a spreadsheet together that will be available on the BHGS site
David
davidandlynda wrote:Phil
This years doubles are just 1000pt armies ,designed as you like with or without allies.
I will be using the v3 rules on here,complete with typos, these are the main body of proposals to be tested so unless something totally unreasonable is unearthed in testing, shouldn't change.
I am going to attempt with my limited technical skills to put a spreadsheet together that will be available on the BHGS site
David
The rules being tested are on the BHGS website under the FoGAM Doubles page
http://www.madaxeman.com
Holiday in Devon? Try https://www.thecaptainscottagebrixham.com
V3 Beta rules for use in the event. For queries on these rule please post on the Slitherine forum.
SETUP and DEPLOYMENT
Current Proposals to be played at the Doubles (Sept. 2016)
NB. Rules remain as in V2 unless changed as below:
1) The player with the initiative selects the terrain from his opponents list.
2) The player with the initiative cannot hand it back to his opponent
3) A compulsory piece may not be chosen as 'Large'
4) Rivers are placed first. Roads are placed last.
5) All other pieces are placed alternately - including towns and open spaces - Starting with compulsory pieces. When one player has placed all his pieces, his opponent places the rest of his in any order. (Roll for placement and sliding as normal).
6(a) Any piece placed with a 5 or a 6 must be placed at least 8MU from a side edge OR ANY OTHER PIECE.
6(b) no more than 2 pieces may be placed on a 5 or a 6. These may both be placed by the same player or one from each. Open spaces and pieces removed entirely do not count towards the limit or 2.
7) Skirmishers may be deployed up to 18MU (increased from 15)
Who goes first?
There are 2 options at the moment:
A) Dice again after deployment, with the better quality commander getting a +1 .... Highest moves first.
B) The player without the initiative goes first.
We have quite polarised views on who goes first.
(A) forces you to deploy without knowing who goes first - Which some players don't like.
(B) is the same as V2 ..... But without the choice of handing the initiative over.
We'd like players to try (A) first - since that's the different rule. Let us know which you prefer?
MOVEMENT
Changes to the movement rules as follows:
1) Heavy Foot move 4MU in the open
2) Pikes cannot move if they expand or turn 90deg.
3a) Light Foot cannot double move..
3b) Light Horse cannot double move unless they are led by a commander depicted as light horse, or are part of a battle line and commander is leading a mounted BG of non-skirmishers.
4) BGs with lancers capability aren't shock troops if, at start of game, either:
a) ALL of their bases also have Bow*
or b) Half of their bases have Bow or xbow.
i.e. - They don't have to test to not charge during the impact phase.
NB. They cannot evade if in single rank.
5) It takes a complete move to place Portable Obstacles. They must be placed within the 1st 3 turns of a game, and cannot be moved after placement.
COMBAT
1) All bases get 3 Dice at impact. (4 for Elephants and Scythed Chariots)
.....> Elephants only get 3 dice against other elephants
2) Undrilled Impact Foot are upgraded if fighting infantry during the impact phase if the BG is 3 ranks deep
Average count as superior
Poor count as average
Superiors and Elites are not upgraded in this way
.....> To count as 3 ranks deep the 3rd rank must contain at least half the number of bases as there are in the front rank.
.....> They are not upgraded against ANY opponent during a phase in which they are attacked in the flank or rear, or during the melee phase.
3) A single +POA in combat becomes a 3 vs. 4 dice roll (rather than 4 vs. 5)
To-Hit scores therefore become:
++ POA ............. 3 vs 5
+ POA .............. 3 vs 4
No POa ............. 4 vs 4
- POA ............... 4 vs 3
-- POA .............. 5 vs 3
4) Lch get a +POA against foot at impact (in addition to the POA for fighting MF in the open).
.....> They are not shock troops
5) Superior and elite troops cannot have their combat dice upgraded by a TC.
.....> They can be upgraded by an FC or an IC
.....> This includes impact foot upgraded to superiors at impact as in (2) above
6) Re-rolls in combat are now only allowed as follows:
a) Re-roll 1's if BETTER quality than your opponent
b) Re-roll 1's and 2's if at least 2 BETTER than your opponent
.....> Non-active player decides first whether or not his general will fight in combat
.....> Poor troops never re-roll 6's in combat - but may upgrade their opponents re-roll instead
1) MF with Bow or Bow* who wish to shoot in the shooting phase have their movement reduce by 1MU.
> They cannot fire at all if they turned, expanded or placed PO's' this turn.
2) MF with crossbow or firearms cannot shoot during their own turn if they move at all.
.....> However - Crossbows no longer get the -POA for shooting at foot.
3a) Support shooting by MF with crossbow gets a -POA
3b) support shooting by MF with bow or bow* get a -POA if their front rank has an impact weapon or impact factor. (even if the weapon doesn't give them a POA against the current enemy - eg HW against mounted)
.....> LF support shooting doesn't get this -POA
4) Bow* can fire from the first 3 ranks (infantry OR cavalry).
.....> MF with Bow* can fire from the 2nd rank only for support shooting.
5) Single rank Offensive and Defensive Spears get a +POA at impact If they have a 2nd rank of battle troops (MF or HF).
POST-COMBAT
1) Post-combat resolution sequence becomes:
(A) Roll for Casualties to generals.
(B) Death Rolls, followed by Test for losing combat and for seeing Commander lost (one test with a -1 for losing both the combat AND seeing a commander lost).
> Note that base loss occurs BEFORE the CMT , and therefore could result in an extra -1 for 25% casualties.
(C) CT for BGs falling to half strength but which have not already tested this move. This test is automatically passed if ALL close combat enemy have broken from the test in (b) above.
(D) Move all BGs broken earlier this phase
(E) If not already tested this phase - test if a BG breaks within 3MU or passes within3MU during its initial rout move.
> NB. When measuring whether or not a broken BG passes within 3MU of friends, all slides and contractions that are part of the move are taken into account.
2) Commanders become casualties on:
> 12 .... if winning the combat
> 11 .... if drawing the combat
> 10 .... if losing the combat, or if caught during pursuit
3) Death rolls for drawn combats get a +1 instead of a +2
4) Auto-break rule is removed and replaced with:
A BG that falls to half strength must take a CT unless it has already tested while at half strength earlier this phase.
> A BG will auto-break if it fails any CT while at half strength.
> A BG will auto-break immediately if it falls to BELOW half Strength.
Note that testers now only receive a single -1 for having taken 25% losses (not -1 for each - back to V1).
5) Skirmishers only count as 1pt when broken, fragmented, destroyed or evading off table.
POST-COMBAT
1) Post-combat resolution sequence becomes:
(A) Roll for Casualties to generals.
(B) Death Rolls, followed by Test for losing combat and for seeing Commander lost (one test with a -1 for losing both the combat AND seeing a commander lost).
> Note that base loss occurs BEFORE the CMT , and therefore could result in an extra -1 for 25% casualties.
(C) CT for BGs falling to half strength but which have not already tested this move. This test is automatically passed if ALL close combat enemy have broken from the test in (b) above.
(D) Move all BGs broken earlier this phase
(E) If not already tested this phase - test if a BG breaks within 3MU or passes within3MU during its initial rout move.
> NB. When measuring whether or not a broken BG passes within 3MU of friends, all slides and contractions that are part of the move are taken into account.
2) Commanders become casualties on:
> 12 .... if winning the combat
> 11 .... if drawing the combat
> 10 .... if losing the combat, or if caught during pursuit
3) Death rolls for drawn combats get a +1 instead of a +2
4) Auto-break rule is removed and replaced with:
A BG that falls to half strength must take a CT unless it has already tested while at half strength earlier this phase.
> A BG will auto-break if it fails any CT while at half strength.
> A BG will auto-break immediately if it falls to BELOW half Strength.
Note that testers now only receive a single -1 for having taken 25% losses (not -1 for each - back to V1).
5) Skirmishers only count as 1pt when broken, fragmented, destroyed or evading off table.
6) TC sub-generals do not add +1 to Ct or CMTs unless they are within 24MU of the CinC.
> FCs and Allied TCs are unaffected.
7a) Lancers do not count -1 on the CT for losing impact against other Lancers
7b) HcH do not count -1 on the CT for losing impact against other HcH
JOINT ACTION PHASE
1) A Broken BG only gets 1 attempt to rally. If the attempt is failed the BG is destroyed (scattered/exhausted)
2) A Broken BG that starts the JAP phase more than 12MU from a commander is destroyed
SKIRMISHERS:
** >> All Skirmisher BGs count as 1/2pt towards army size
Some light horse armies will be particularly affected (Numidians, Parthians etc). Any feedback will be read with interest.
Elephants:
> In order to add more variation we'll introduce an option to upgrade/downgrade elephants to Superior/Poor. This will be on a list by list basis, but in general will only be made available to those lists that can't have elephant generals.
> For further variation, we will allow some elephants to be used in BGs of 2or3. This will also be on a list by list basis, but will only be made available to those lists that can have elephant generals.
New Weapon Type:
Some HW will be changed to POLE ARM where appropriate in certain lists. These will be better against mounted at impact, but not quite as good as HW in melee.
It will affect a number of medieval armies plus some of the Chinese armies and maybe a few others.
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"Elephants:
> In order to add more variation we'll introduce an option to upgrade/downgrade elephants to Superior/Poor. This will be on a list by list basis, but in general will only be made available to those lists that can't have elephant generals.
> For further variation, we will allow some elephants to be used in BGs of 2or3. This will also be on a list by list basis, but will only be made available to those lists that can have elephant generals."
Is anything further going to be ruled as to who can have these options, or is this irrelevant to this competition?
Dave has the list but
Dave R and Dave B 1st with Swiss by a country mile,
Paul and Derek Bartlett 2nd Castillian
Lynda and me 3rd Early Mac Successor with lots of average warband,
Paul and Derek rode over everything in their path pikes,elephants. warband against us ,lost 1 base so not sure what it says about v3 apart from don't let me roll dice.
The Swiss doing so well though is a bit of a concern from me,especially as they were led by Dave
David
Dave Ruddock and David Bannister -- Swiss -- 88 pts
Paul Bartlett and Derek Bartlett -- Medieval Castilian -- 55 pts
David Fairhurst and Lynda Fairhurst -- Early Successor -- 45 pts
Jon Akers and Paul Westmore -- Aztec -- 37 pts
John Patrick -- Later Macedonian -- 33 pts
Terry Shaw and Ali Shaw -- Khmer and Cham --27 pts
At this point, all that remains to be said is: Well done Terry.
)
