Auto self heal and auto train

A mix of deep gameplay and rich historical flavor, Aggressors: Ancient Rome lets you relive history as the ruler of one of the mighty civilizations of the ancient Mediterranean. Choose one of twenty available factions and conquer the world.
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dejvid2
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Auto self heal and auto train

Post by dejvid2 » Wed Oct 10, 2018 10:38 am

Is there a way of telling unit to keep self healing turn by turn and not to bother me again till they're well again?

Likewise is there a way of telling unit to keep adding improvements until they have trained themselves in all the available improvements?
(In this case I would lose the ability to prioritize but when a unit is recruited late on in the game it will something like 10-15 improvements and they are all nice to have and it is tedious to select the next improvement each turn)

uncajerf
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Re: Auto self heal and auto train

Post by uncajerf » Wed Oct 10, 2018 11:48 am

dejvid2 wrote:
Wed Oct 10, 2018 10:38 am
Is there a way of telling unit to keep self healing turn by turn and not to bother me again till they're well again?

Likewise is there a way of telling unit to keep adding improvements until they have trained themselves in all the available improvements?
(In this case I would lose the ability to prioritize but when a unit is recruited late on in the game it will something like 10-15 improvements and they are all nice to have and it is tedious to select the next improvement each turn)
Doubtless the devs will respond to this, but I'd like to add my opinion on your requests, and a suggestion.

As to 'auto' self-heal, that might be nice, but I don't know the feasibility of it.

As to the improvements, I think this would be counter-intuitive. I tried doing that myself -- i.e., manually adding improvement after improvement to new units -- but found that it was not only tedious but perhaps unnecessary as well as somewhat risky. What I mean is that units are often awarded improvements in combat, so making sure they obtain all of them before 'graduating' seems like overkill. Not only that, leaving them sitting at home training is perhaps not the best strategy; presumably you built them for a purpose, and delaying their entrance into the action may not be wise. So, IMO, give them one or two, three or four at the very most, of the best suited to your intended purpose, and send them to the front! Aside from that, keep in mind that each improvement added sucks up more resources.

As to the suggestion (Pavel), what about an option to build them with a few improvements already, e.g., at the cost of a delayed deployment and commensurate resources?

Cheers!


JRR
uncajerf

"Artillery adds dignity to what otherwise would be a vulgar brawl." -Frederick the Great

dejvid2
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Re: Auto self heal and auto train

Post by dejvid2 » Wed Oct 10, 2018 11:52 am

If you have troops on a quiet front who are just there in case an ally stabs you in the back then there is nothing else for them to do but train.

uncajerf
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Re: Auto self heal and auto train

Post by uncajerf » Wed Oct 10, 2018 12:01 pm

dejvid2 wrote:
Wed Oct 10, 2018 11:52 am
If you have troops on a quiet front who are just there in case an ally stabs you in the back then there is nothing else for them to do but train.
True enough! :D


JRR
uncajerf

"Artillery adds dignity to what otherwise would be a vulgar brawl." -Frederick the Great

Yogi the Great
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Re: Auto self heal and auto train

Post by Yogi the Great » Wed Oct 10, 2018 12:19 pm

Auto Self Heal is available in the game - I believe it shows up available as a unit upgrade fairly far into the game

I have not noticed auto train

dejvid2
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Re: Auto self heal and auto train

Post by dejvid2 » Wed Oct 10, 2018 12:24 pm

Yogi the Great wrote:
Wed Oct 10, 2018 12:19 pm
Auto Self Heal is available in the game - I believe it shows up available as a unit upgrade fairly far into the game

I have not noticed auto train
That is true. Medics I believe? But that is a heal instantly ability. Very useful but that's about how the underlying game works, what I'm talking about a way of making the interface easier to use rather than stuff to improve your chances of winning.

pavelk
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Re: Auto self heal and auto train

Post by pavelk » Thu Oct 11, 2018 9:18 am

dejvid2 wrote:
Wed Oct 10, 2018 10:38 am
Is there a way of telling unit to keep self healing turn by turn and not to bother me again till they're well again?
Hi dejvid2,
there already was a similar question here. I hope it sheds some light on the reason why we dont want to go into that (despite it is not that difficult from implementation point of view).
dejvid2 wrote:
Wed Oct 10, 2018 12:24 pm
Medics I believe? But that is a heal instantly ability
There are two improvements related to this - Medic (it is a special self-heal improvement) and hospital (it is a city improvement healing units on that tile).
dejvid2 wrote:
Wed Oct 10, 2018 11:52 am
If you have troops on a quiet front who are just there in case an ally stabs you in the back then there is nothing else for them to do but train.
I am sure you play on lower difficulty, right? In higher difficulty you simply cannot afford to do this at all:) To be honest the improvements were not really meant to be used like this. It should have been some kind of "specialization" for units, not that all units will have all improvements. The higher difficulty levels usually dont have this problem because there is simply not enough resources. For lower difficulty levels it is possible but we might rather address this by limiting number of improvements than adding something like "train all the improvements". It wouldnt even make sense from the historical point. The unit would spend like 20 years in training:-D

dejvid2
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Re: Auto self heal and auto train

Post by dejvid2 » Thu Oct 11, 2018 7:52 pm

pavelk wrote:
Thu Oct 11, 2018 9:18 am
dejvid2 wrote:
Wed Oct 10, 2018 10:38 am
Is there a way of telling unit to keep self healing turn by turn and not to bother me again till they're well again?
Hi dejvid2,
there already was a similar question here. I hope it sheds some light on the reason why we dont want to go into that (despite it is not that difficult from implementation point of view).
If I understood that thread the problem is that players might forget about the unit and should the enemy make a break thru and attack it is highly likely to get destroyed.
Well, yes, players would have to decide if it was worth the risk.

pavelk wrote:
Thu Oct 11, 2018 9:18 am
dejvid2 wrote:
Wed Oct 10, 2018 11:52 am
If you have troops on a quiet front who are just there in case an ally stabs you in the back then there is nothing else for them to do but train.
I am sure you play on lower difficulty, right? In higher difficulty you simply cannot afford to do this at all:) To be honest the improvements were not really meant to be used like this. It should have been some kind of "specialization" for units, not that all units will have all improvements. The higher difficulty levels usually dont have this problem because there is simply not enough resources. For lower difficulty levels it is possible but we might rather address this by limiting number of improvements than adding something like "train all the improvements". It wouldnt even make sense from the historical point. The unit would spend like 20 years in training:-D
I shall see how things work out but so far the extra difficulty has made it even more important to have consolidation periods in which troops spend time in garrison duty in the newly acquired cities.

If auto-train is out of the question then limiting the number improvements would work. I don't see any down side by making that apply to higher difficulties.

Thanks for the reply,

pavelk
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Re: Auto self heal and auto train

Post by pavelk » Fri Oct 12, 2018 8:31 am

dejvid2 wrote:
Thu Oct 11, 2018 7:52 pm
If I understood that thread the problem is that players might forget about the unit and should the enemy make a break thru and attack it is highly likely to get destroyed.
Well, yes, players would have to decide if it was worth the risk.
Yes that is one problem, the second problem is that there would be altogether 5 different actions related to healing:
  • Healing
  • Healing-self
  • Healing-self to full strength
  • Recovering
  • Recovering to full strength
and it doesnt include the auto-heal (which is not an action). I hope you agree that this is absolute overkill especially when we consider that most of the other strategy games do not even have two ways...
Neither recover or heal-self is actually meant to be used like this and if you do, you not only waste your resources (because recovering is two times more expansive than healing in its builder - city) but it also lowers the unit experience. These actions should be used in emergency cases or when the unit is too far from a city to survive the march back home.
dejvid2 wrote:
Wed Oct 10, 2018 11:52 am
If auto-train is out of the question then limiting the number improvements would work. I don't see any down side by making that apply to higher difficulties.
To be honest, I was thinking about it and limiting the number of improvements doesnt really make sense from the logical point of view. Why would unit not be able to be trained in another speciality? On the other hand training your unit for 20 years (like you are basically asking for) also doesnt make sense. However, you are their leader so if you are happy to go this way, I think it is fine, but I don't see these two improvements to be implemented anytime soon. They "kind of" dont make sense.

dejvid2
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Re: Auto self heal and auto train

Post by dejvid2 » Fri Oct 12, 2018 10:38 am

pavelk wrote:
Fri Oct 12, 2018 8:31 am
and it doesnt include the auto-heal (which is not an action). I hope you agree that this is absolute overkill especially when we consider that most of the other strategy games do not even have two ways...
Neither recover or heal-self is actually meant to be used like this and if you do, you not only waste your resources (because recovering is two times more expansive than healing in its builder - city) but it also lowers the unit experience. These actions should be used in emergency cases or when the unit is too far from a city to survive the march back home.
Oh, I didn't know about that downside. I had the impression that self-heal was entirely cost free so something you should always do except in an emergency. If self healing has that big penalty then there is clearly no need for and auto-self heal and I like the logic of the rule now I understand it. I have just read the manual entry (page 5.
Self-healing can be imagined as the basic medical care soldiers got in military camps; the time required to restore their full strength would be directly linked to the severity of their injuries, but not that although this action is also free.
And that's where it ends. Do I have an old version because it looks as if it was about to say "it lowers the unit experience."?

pavelk wrote:
Fri Oct 12, 2018 8:31 am
dejvid2 wrote:
Wed Oct 10, 2018 11:52 am
If auto-train is out of the question then limiting the number improvements would work. I don't see any down side by making that apply to higher difficulties.
To be honest, I was thinking about it and limiting the number of improvements doesnt really make sense from the logical point of view. Why would unit not be able to be trained in another speciality? On the other hand training your unit for 20 years (like you are basically asking for) also doesnt make sense. However, you are their leader so if you are happy to go this way, I think it is fine, but I don't see these two improvements to be implemented anytime soon. They "kind of" dont make sense.
You may well be right that I won't have the time to do much of this when I graduate to higher difficulties so the number of improvements will be limited in practice if not in theory.

uncajerf
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Re: Auto self heal and auto train

Post by uncajerf » Fri Oct 12, 2018 11:20 am

dejvid2 wrote:
Fri Oct 12, 2018 10:38 am

<snip>
Self-healing can be imagined as the basic medical care soldiers got in military camps; the time required to restore their full strength would be directly linked to the severity of their injuries, but not that although this action is also free.
And that's where it ends. Do I have an old version because it looks as if it was about to say "it lowers the unit experience."?
Yes, that is an old version; the current (unreleased) version reads: "...but note that although this action is also free, they are immobilized during the process, and both these actions drastically reduce the ability of the unit to defend itself if attacked (-50% and -60% defense penalty). The unit regains 10% of its current Attack and Defense Strength per turn, so any serious injuries will heal for a long time."

We could add a note re: experience...?


JRR
uncajerf

"Artillery adds dignity to what otherwise would be a vulgar brawl." -Frederick the Great

pavelk
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Re: Auto self heal and auto train

Post by pavelk » Fri Oct 12, 2018 11:51 am

The unit experience is decreased only for recovering not for healing-self. Healing self is a "self-curing" method, recovering also withdraws new soldiers (rookies) out of nearby towns.

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