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MikeC_81
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Re: The Discussion thread . . .

Post by MikeC_81 »

bbogensc wrote:Yes, MikeC, and you were also correct that the late Roman lists are Tier A. The Roman +-400AD lists and also Romano-British are each comparable, probably better, than the Carthage lists in my view. Note also, the Jewish lists are extremely problematic for Carthage without much archery and I scrambled to get out of my 1st round match up. However, Carthage dominates horse based armies when played properly, and I also thought I could win easily with Carthage against any archer armies by sheer numbers.
I am unsure about the late Roman lists. One of their biggest flaws is that they don't have a core of offensive spear unit. Not having the ability to get spanish scutarri for Impact Foot capability in medium terrain also seems like a big drawback compared to Carthage. I am going to need to see better results from them before I move them into Tier A.
bbogensc wrote:On league, I am busy right now with work and travel, but am also very discouraged that players (especially newer players) are able to re-load turns. I don't enjoy playing the game against players who are re-loading, its just not fun, even though as klayeckes pointed out there is a certain joy in beating a player that is obviously re-loading. There was a recent posting by Skirmish Lord where he explained that the re-load warning only occurs on extreme re-loading abuse (appears to be dozens and dozens of times), and then its just a warning with no practical effect. In the first season of league I properly reported a player that appeared to be re-loading, and was wrongly told this was "impossible" and Stockwellpete attempted to award the match to my opponent simply for pointing out that he appeared to be re-loading, as Stockwellpete then wrongly claimed this was impossible. I never received any sort of apology or explanation. It was only months later that Kabill demonstrated exactly how the reloading is done, and then we were again told the issue is under control, but its obviously not. In my experience, in addition to outlandish battle results, players that are re-loading often make head on or suicidal attacks that make no sense, so its blatantly obvious the person is re-loading and knows they are going to load a sequence until they get a 2 drop fracture, for example.

So, where I was placed in B and C, with players I've never heard of, and other players I've never heard of going directly into A, I just decided that was enough where I had beaten many of the A players. I am running the campaign which is more enjoyable and in a campaign its really impractical to try to re-load turns so its just a more viable set up. I don't think the league is designed well enough to run where players are able to re-load especially in the lower divisions.
I understand your concerns about cheating but so far in 2 FoG2DL seasons, the KO tournament and the 3 official tournaments I have participated in, I have not really felt that I was ever cheated. Is it possible that someone cheated on me? Sure. Ludendorf had a couple of really clutch attacks against bad odds on me that fragmented units or turned them around when they were about to blow open a section of line with a flanking attack. It is possible he cheated but when I step back and examine my run of luck as a whole throughout the game and throughout tournaments, crazy things have happened for both me and my opponent. Ex. If Ludendorf really wanted to cheat me, wouldn't he have simply picked a better spot and cheated before it got to the point where he would have to make a Hail Mary charge with a LH hoping it would stick and turn my flanking unit around? I am sure Klayeckles didn't feel great about my fragmented cavalry beating up his full strength cavalry, causing a double drop in morale and then breaking the same turn when his LH auto broke beside it. I just don't feel that cheating is at all prevalent and even it if is, it isn't stopping me from posting decent results (unless you think I too am part of the pack of cheaters that may or may not exist).

In any case, I respect your decision, it was just strange to see you pull out of all 5 divisions after the start of the League and it cause some disorder along with other people pulling out alongside you. For what its worth, I have never had a problem with Pete in our interactions and I have been in his tournaments or played beside him since day 1 this game launched. In any case, good luck with your campaign, I would have joined but as I said earlier, I am not really into the big metagame stuff.
Stratford Scramble Tournament

http://www.slitherine.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=494&t=99766&p=861093#p861093

FoG 2 Post Game Analysis Series on Youtube:

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCKmEROEwX2fgjoQLlQULhPg/
bbogensc
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Re: The Discussion thread . . .

Post by bbogensc »

(1) Fewer people are playing in league because its not well-designed not because of my dropping out for goodness sake. But, reading the post from Stockwellpete, I made the right decision. For Stockwellpete to put his buddy directly in Group A in Season 2 speaks for itself. How can the game be increasing in sales sand league play declining I wonder?

(2) On the continued snarky posts about re-loading... three months ago it was "impossible", one month ago it was a "conspiracy theory", then 3 weeks ago it was possible but "not workable as a strategy because there are controls", then 1 week ago it turns out the controls are very limited or nonexistent.

A snarky post seems to appear immediately telling any player that reports a concern that they are just wrong or paranoid, anybody who makes a formal report of cheating gets a sanction. So, under these conditions, I would not expect other players who experience game re-loading to raise concerns and probably they will just drop out of league or stop playing the game.
stockwellpete
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Re: Semi-final draw live June 30th!

Post by stockwellpete »

20 minutes or so and I shall be doing the draw. :wink:
stockwellpete
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Re: The Discussion thread . . .

Post by stockwellpete »

bbogensc wrote:(1) Fewer people are playing in league because its not well-designed not because of my dropping out for goodness sake. But, reading the post from Stockwellpete, I made the right decision. For Stockwellpete to put his buddy directly in Group A in Season 2 speaks for itself. How can the game be increasing in sales sand league play declining I wonder?
Less people are playing in this season of the FOG2DL because it is the "summer season". This is normal. I expect there will be more players for the "autumn season" which starts in October. The player put directly into Division A is not a "buddy" of mine. I have never played against him or communicated with him before this season of the FOG2DL. Can you stop making unwarranted allegations please?
(2) On the continued snarky posts about re-loading... three months ago it was "impossible", one month ago it was a "conspiracy theory", then 3 weeks ago it was possible but "not workable as a strategy because there are controls", then 1 week ago it turns out the controls are very limited or nonexistent.

A snarky post seems to appear immediately telling any player that reports a concern that they are just wrong or paranoid, anybody who makes a formal report of cheating gets a sanction. So, under these conditions, I would not expect other players who experience game re-loading to raise concerns and probably they will just drop out of league or stop playing the game.
The question of cheating is not actually my responsibility as I have no technical role within Slitherine, and so when something like this arises I always refer the issue immediately to them. If you are not satisfied with the answers you have been given by Slitherine then take it up with them, not me, and not in this discussion forum either.
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Re: Semi-final draw live June 30th!

Post by stockwellpete »

Semi-final draw
1. Ludendorf (Carthaginians, Hannibal in Africa 202BC) v ruskicanuk (Carthaginians 235-146BC)
2. hidde (Pyrrhic 280-272BC) v bbogensc (Carthaginians 262-236BC)
bbogensc
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Re: The Discussion thread . . .

Post by bbogensc »

Yeah, its a little puzzling that a player you don't know and never communicated with went directly into Div A. Any other new player would need to play a calendar year of successful league games in order to make Div A. That was your decision, right? So, you ought to know the reasons for that decision and could explain at any time.

The problem I had when dropping out of league is that I reported a situation consistent with game-reloading occurring in league, both you and Slitherine knew this was possible at the time, and then you sanctioned me for making the report and claimed it was "impossible". If fact, you knew then it was possible as this was a problem all the way back with FOG multiplayer, let alone FOGII.
stockwellpete
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Re: The Discussion thread . . .

Post by stockwellpete »

bbogensc wrote:Yeah, its a little puzzling that a player you don't know and never communicated with went directly into Div A. Any other new player would need to play a calendar year of successful league games in order to make Div A. That was your decision, right? So, you ought to know the reasons for that decision and could explain at any time.
Not puzzling at all. Nosy_Rat came second in the Legions Triumphant automated tournament beating mst007, devoncop and SpeedyCM in the process. All these are very good players with considerable FOG2DL experience. So I made the decision on that basis as I had a gap to fill in an "A" division. On his performance I rated him "B/A" and so he got an "A" and a "B" division. That is the explanation. Your insinuation that something else is going on is pathetic.
The problem I had when dropping out of league is that I reported a situation consistent with game-reloading occurring in league, both you and Slitherine knew this was possible at the time, and then you sanctioned me for making the report and claimed it was "impossible". If fact, you knew then it was possible as this was a problem all the way back with FOG multiplayer, let alone FOGII.
Rubbish. You dropped out of Season 2 of the league two days after it started. The incident you are referring to happened in Season 1. So why did you enter Season 2 if you have such a low opinion of what is offered in the FOG2DL? My suspicion is that you deliberately tried to cause disruption at the start of the tournament.

My understanding is that if people do re-load turns, it is recorded on the server and Slitherine then intervenes. That is what they tell me and I believe them. I am completely in their hands as far as monitoring player activity is concerned. I am not an employee of Slitherine.
bbogensc
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Re: The Discussion thread . . .

Post by bbogensc »

I was not referring to Nosy_Rat. He is a fantastic player with a solid track record. I am obviously referring to the other player you put in Div A.

If you recall, I inquired before Season 2 started that I was concerned the re-loading turns issue had not been addressed. You then told me we should not talk about this on the forums. Ring any bells? I also thought by dropping out a person on the waiting list would get to play instead and that person might enjoy being in league. Are you saying now you did not have reserve players for league? Really, you are just making any personal attack against me you can think of
bbogensc
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Re: The Discussion thread . . .

Post by bbogensc »

On the reloading turns, a veteran player actually reported he got the warning, and the process is extremely loose so it allows new players to reload, at minimum. Also, when I made the first report to you and Slitherine months ago, that player I reported then appears to have gotten the warning for activity during my league match, then lost his next 5 consecutive public games, presumably because he could not reload his turn anymore. If this does not constitute a proper and valid report, then there really is no situation that ever would.
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Re: The Discussion thread . . .

Post by stockwellpete »

bbogensc wrote:I was not referring to Nosy_Rat. He is a fantastic player with a solid track record. I am obviously referring to the other player you put in Div A.
Who then?
If you recall, I inquired before Season 2 started that I was concerned the re-loading turns issue had not been addressed. You then told me we should not talk about this on the forums. Ring any bells? I also thought by dropping out a person on the waiting list would get to play instead and that person might enjoy being in league. Are you saying now you did not have reserve players for league? Really, you are just making any personal attack against me you can think of
You had been answered by Richard in detail during Season 1 and then just before Season 2 started you raised it all over again. I don't want your unsubstantiated allegations of widespread cheating to tarnish the FOG2DL. I put a lot of work into it, thanks. So raise your concerns in the main Slitherine forum so Richard can deal with them, not in the FOG2DL or KO Tournament forums. The monitoring of player's behaviour regarding possible cheating is nothing to do with me, it is Slitherine's responsibility and I am guided entirely by them.

So you are now saying you left the league after two days for altruistic reasons. Amazing. :roll: I wonder how the players who you had started matches with felt about it? And I did not immediately have enough players to cover your 5 places because I had to take one of the slots even though I have hardly played for the last couple of months. I also had to re-write all the fixture schedules and charts/tables because I keep everything in alphabetical order.

I think players can see exactly what you are like. You don't even have the decency to wait until the KO Tournament is over. Even though you are still playing in something I have organised you are still slagging me off and making unwarranted accusations.
bbogensc
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Re: The Discussion thread . . .

Post by bbogensc »

Sure, I'm just an evil person and just treat me like a piece of dirt personally attacking me over and over again with no point as far as I can tell. I spend many hours each week organizing the most popular FOGII campaign, which is nearly as popular as your entire sponsored league, and to be treated like this is just outrageous. You should be ashamed of yourself. I am ashamed for you and won't be in touch with you further.
Ludendorf
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Re: Arrange your matches here . . .

Post by Ludendorf »

Ludendorf (Hannibal in Africa 202BC) challenges ruskicanuk (Carthaginians 235-146BC). Password is 'romanscurse', or possibly 'romancurse'. PM sent.

Good luck, and well done on making it to this late stage.
klayeckles
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Re: The Discussion thread . . .

Post by klayeckles »

bbogensc wrote:Sure, I'm just an evil person and just treat me like a piece of dirt personally attacking me over and over again with no point as far as I can tell. I spend many hours each week organizing the most popular FOGII campaign, which is nearly as popular as your entire sponsored league, and to be treated like this is just outrageous. You should be ashamed of yourself. I am ashamed for you and won't be in touch with you further.

bbog.... seems you're pretty angry over this, and have been for a while
couple thoughts.
we're not playing for money.
most players are having a great time, and are honorable.
the staff are doing their damnedest to bring us a game experience second to none. of course that means pleasing a couple hundred folk
you certainly have a passion for the game and are an outstanding player...one of the best.
the community is relatively small...some players here have faced each other for nearly 10 years going back to FOG 1.
So you've got some beefs...i do too, like the elected official that represents me is a ego maniac...that's a real problem. we come to this forum to have some fun, and make some friends--this discussion thread doesn't cover any of that. How about just facing the fact that the system might not be perfect (like everything else on the planet), and sitting back and enjoying it despite the issues we all might have. if once in 50 games we lose because someone rolled the dice a second time...hey i'm willing to shake my head and live with it, and i bet it won't impact our world standings in FOG...and if it does...who is this klayeckles and bbogensc, and all the rest anyway? :roll:
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Re: Arrange your matches here . . .

Post by hidde »

Challenge posted for bbogensc.
PW=semi
PM sent
Ludendorf
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Re: Winners post your result here . . .

Post by Ludendorf »

Ludendorf (Carthaginians: Hannibal in Africa 202BC) defeats ruskicanuk (Carthaginians: Hannibal in Africa 235-146BC) 0-17%. Opponent surrendered.
bbogensc
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Re: Winners post your result here . . .

Post by bbogensc »

bbogensc (Carthage 262-236BC) defeats hidde (Pyrrhic) 51-9%.
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Re: Tournament results

Post by stockwellpete »

Semi-final results

1. Ludendorf (Carthaginians, Hannibal in Africa 202BC) beat ruskicanuk (Carthaginians 235-146BC) 17-0
2. bbogensc (Carthaginians 262-236BC) beat hidde (Pyrrhics 280-272BC) 51-9
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The KO Final match status

Post by stockwellpete »

The Final

1. Ludendorf (Carthaginians, Hannibal in Africa 202BC) v bbogensc (Carthaginians 262-236BC).............. in progress

Match to be completed by 9pm (BST) July 29th.
stockwellpete
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Re: Tournament diary and news

Post by stockwellpete »

Both semi-finals have been completed very quickly so I have given the two finalists, Ludendorf and bbogensc, the option of starting their match before the original start date of July 15. The deadline for completion is unchanged on July 29th.
Ludendorf
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Re: Arrange your matches here . . .

Post by Ludendorf »

Ludendorf (Carthaginians: Hannibal in Africa 202BC) challenges bbogensc (Carthaginians 262-235BC). PM sent. Password is 'finale'.

Alea iacta est and all that. May Fortuna shine on us both.
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