Does the AI actually play to win?

Warhammer 40,000: Gladius Relics of War brings you to a world of terror and violence. Four factions will engage in a brutal war for dominance over the planets resources.
sIg3b
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Does the AI actually play to win?

Post by sIg3b »

Playing on Hard, and the AI is definitely out-producing me, but it doesn´t seem able to leverage that into a win.

At one point in my current game, the Necrons controlled over half the map, but didn´t manage to take me out (playing the Imperial Guard, what else?), nor did they take out the Orcs. Some probes, but no all-out attempt to crush me.

Also, on higher difficulties, the AI would be well advised, given their economic headstart, to simply win by questing. But does the AI even have quests? Does it *know* it has quests? Does it actively try to complete them?

My general Impression of the AI after a few games is: It combines sound development with questionable tactics and non-existent grand strategy.
ErissN6
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Re: Does the AI actually play to win?

Post by ErissN6 »

Then try on Medium, the Necrons wipes its neighbourghs (easily IG) and invades the map,
but you may still be right as I never finished a game, as I was sure they would wipe me next.
sIg3b
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Re: Does the AI actually play to win?

Post by sIg3b »

ErissN6 wrote: Mon Dec 03, 2018 10:03 pm Then try on Medium, the Necrons wipes its neighbourghs (easily IG) and invades the map,
but you may still be right as I never finished a game, as I was sure they would wipe me next.
I am playing on HARD, that´s one above Medium. :)

But, that said, around turn 130 they DID manage to take out the Orcs. And the Necrons may well be OP, just not relentless enough. So, yes, the AI can win. But it´s something that appears to happen to it by chance, like bumbling into a city with a large force and incidentally wiping it out.

In the current game, the Necrons could have crushed me twice already, but twice retreated instead. They shy away from attacking cities, which should be their top priority.

The AI appears to play an extreme Builder game, so may win in the very long run, if you mismanage your economy (as I did in this game), but if you organize your buildup decently, then rush it, it´s toast.
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Re: Does the AI actually play to win?

Post by whys »

GO try impossible IA u will be stomp if u are not carefull ^^.
ErissN6
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Re: Does the AI actually play to win?

Post by ErissN6 »

sIg3b wrote: Tue Dec 04, 2018 7:42 pmthe Necrons may well be OP, just not relentless enough.
In the current game, the Necrons could have crushed me twice already, but twice retreated instead. They shy away from attacking cities, which should be their top priority.
Okay, so the game cheats in the reverse this time, downgrading for we'll be able to win. It is to be known. Even it was not intended?
sIg3b
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Re: Does the AI actually play to win?

Post by sIg3b »

ErissN6 wrote: Fri Dec 14, 2018 4:04 pm
sIg3b wrote: Tue Dec 04, 2018 7:42 pmthe Necrons may well be OP, just not relentless enough.
In the current game, the Necrons could have crushed me twice already, but twice retreated instead. They shy away from attacking cities, which should be their top priority.
Okay, so the game cheats in the reverse this time, downgrading for we'll be able to win. It is to be known. Even it was not intended?
I think this had a technical reason: AI went only so-and-so far from its cities and was afraid to go farther. Has likely been resolved in the latest patch.
ErissN6
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Re: Does the AI actually play to win?

Post by ErissN6 »

The AI must not play to win at all cost, it must simulate an human, or how a player would play. Some like honor, and would fight only against their stronger opponent, letting live the others while he could end them; some like stealth, prefering being hidden than hitting; some prefer close combat, not building artillery even his faction is a specialist; etc
Playing to win at all cost should be the AI of greater Difficulty to play against.
sIg3b
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Re: Does the AI actually play to win?

Post by sIg3b »

Errr, no, the AI should simulate Necrons, Orcs, Imperials & Space Marines who all want to win at all cost. In the 41st millennium no one wants to live and let live or fight honourably. Emperor preserve us of such delusions! :lol:
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Re: Does the AI actually play to win?

Post by ErissN6 »

sIg3b wrote: Sun Jan 20, 2019 5:51 pmno, the AI should simulate Necrons, Orcs, Imperials & Space Marines who all want to win at all cost. In the 41st millennium no one wants to live and let live or fight honourably. Emperor preserve us of such delusions! :lol:
I would be okay for a good AI while actually the AI would simulate what is bad in their strategies.
The difficulty levels should be:
Easy: the AIs won't win, it's a training level
Medium: the AIs simulate humans
Hard: the AIs simulate the factions
Impossible: the AIs are perfect, trying to win even by betraying the factions' spirit/lore
sIg3b
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Re: Does the AI actually play to win?

Post by sIg3b »

I think AI should always simulate the faction, with more or less competence and loyalty bonus according to difficulty level.
ErissN6
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Re: Does the AI actually play to win?

Post by ErissN6 »

sIg3b wrote: Mon Jan 21, 2019 10:29 pmI think AI should always simulate the faction, with more or less competence and loyalty bonus according to difficulty level.
So you agree with me: the AIs should have "more or less different competences", what then means differents flaws/weaknesses too with strenghts.
Maybe humanizing was not the good word, maybe better individualizing the AIs, giving them differents personnalities. All generals are not clones with exactly same personnalities and competences.
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Re: Does the AI actually play to win?

Post by sIg3b »

Perhaps; but in case of the Necrons or Tyranids I wouldn´t think they are all too individualist.
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Re: Does the AI actually play to win?

Post by sIg3b »

Update: I am rather impressed with the latest version. Playing on hard, and the AI builds a combined arms force and plays a competent game overall. Nice!
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Re: Does the AI actually play to win?

Post by VanuKaos »

I am getting smashed on medium level. I can't match the AI for research and building. I get on with it as fast and as efficient as I can but the AI always seems to be ahead of the curve then the armies meet and it's a blob of high end or top tier units in fairly large quantities. Sometimes the AI just sits and does nothing or produces one unit which is annoying when you ally with them lol. My question to my esteemed Gladiators of Gladius is how do you approach research to combat the AI when it's on it's A-Game? Lots of lower tier research or spearhead into the high end units as quickly as possible? Looking at the end of game reports where I have been annihilated the AI seems to go along a similar trajectory as myself for research and so on but at some point the graph for the AI shoots up to the stratosphere and I reckon it's when the AI has dealt with it's neighbours and meets my outriders or scouts units. That seems to send them into a frenzy and then I get mobbed lol.

Any help or advice would be deeply appreciated as I love Gladius as a game but last few battles have been incredibly frustrating. This is with the Tyranids DLC and latest patch I hasten to add. I have always played on medium and never really felt hopelessly outmatched as I do now but may just have to eat my chips and bump down to easy.
sIg3b
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Re: Does the AI actually play to win?

Post by sIg3b »

Well, the point of the game is having fun, so I´d say it´s fine to play at any difficulty level you feel comfortable with. But I´ll try to think of a few strategy tips, which is easier said than done, because I play rather intuitively and do not really plan a lot.

Take the Astra for example: They are all about numbers: Spam cities, spam infantry. I like to trade dirt cheap Guardsmen 1:1 for much more valuable enemies, such as Stalkers or a Warboss. Heavy Weapons can do a lot of damage for their price, build them liberally. Get to Arty soonest, their speed, range and damage make them incredible, particularly if you never lose them and they accumulate high experience. Put them adjacent to a max discipline Commissar to make them even more deadly. Start defensively, once you have a handful of Leman Russ and a Tank Commander, you can tankrush them!
VanuKaos
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Re: Does the AI actually play to win?

Post by VanuKaos »

Sound advice for the AM, thank you for taking the time to post. I think that was one of my issues was not getting the Basilisk out quick enough or in numbers. I dropped the difficulty down to easy and started a game against the Tyranids, Orks and Astra Militarum with my Space Marines and the game is much more enjoyable again. Fending off the Guard and Orks after demolishing the 'Nids without being overwhelmed. Probably the difficulty level I will stick at until I get a bit better. Any tips for the Space Marines?
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Re: Does the AI actually play to win?

Post by ErissN6 »

VanuKaos wrote: Tue Feb 05, 2019 10:51 pmI dropped the difficulty down to easy and started a game against the Tyranids, Orks and Astra Militarum with my Space Marines and the game is much more enjoyable again. Probably the difficulty level I will stick at until I get a bit better. Any tips for the Space Marines?
SM is no longer fun, now it has become a rush faction, you must win early,
so the Reinforcement DLC is useless as if you can use it with the SM it means you will soon lose.
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Re: Does the AI actually play to win?

Post by petike811 »

SM don’t need to push with their vehicles, they need to “drop”. The faction is about “precise” planning, not just roaming baldy, using the Emperor's finest that way is heresy.
Space Marines are not really a rush faction but they are able to do so without too much effort.
The trick with the faction, how much influence can your force commander gather.
Just use your drop pods decisively, it will change the behavior of your enemy. Its your enemy who need to fear of your uncounterable pods, If you can stock up enough units and influence in your base you are a constant threat to your opponent. It should be his obligation to entangle your units or starve your influence.
We could write you guides how to beat two coop impossible ai, but we don’t want to steal your accomplisments.
Anyway, all sm vehicles are op with machine empathy, Even necron feel eny to that regen/maintence operation. Baneblade is good for one ride, then good luck maintain it. After reading those comments I was about to suggest maybe tryout some fps. But even cod needs some basic tactical thinking, like if you fall back your hp bar goes up, other factions need heavy investments or rely on medic. So I find your case hopless.
sIg3b
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Re: Does the AI actually play to win?

Post by sIg3b »

I like the SM least, because they don´t agree with my attritional style, so I can´t really give good advice there. :(

I will probably enjoy the Tyranids, though, and in a few weeks I may have some useful suggestions on them.
ErissN6
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Re: Does the AI actually play to win?

Post by ErissN6 »

Yes, I don't like drops, that's "cheating" lol. That's why I'm eager to use the Chaos Marines (and their stealth).
So at now I no longer play Gladius, Marines are no longer fun for me if we're compelled to rush or to drops.
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