Ambush battles?

[Yaitz331]

Are there any plans to institute ambush battles in FoG2? It would be INCREDIBLY fun to play, both as the locals ambushing the invaders and as invaders trying to beat back the ambush.

I don't think it would be too hard to add. You could make it so that enemy units start disordered, or so that they become disordered as soon as they're fired on or engaged in melee for the first few turns. Setup stage would be different, with you being allowed to place units in any hidden terrain on the battlefield as well as your side. That said, I have no clue how hard this would be to program in, but if it isn't too hard, I'd LOVE to have ambushes in FoG2.

[rbodleyscott]

There already are some among the user created scenarios. Also the baggage protection scenario is an ambush scenario.

[Yaitz331]

There already are some among the user created scenarios. Also the baggage protection scenario is an ambush scenario.

I mean adding it as another battle type, not adding potential for it.
I mean battles like Teutoberg Forest, Beth Horon, Gadara, the Persian Gate, etc. Baggage protection scenario doesn't really work for those.

[rbodleyscott]

There already are some among the user created scenarios. Also the baggage protection scenario is an ambush scenario.

I mean adding it as another battle type, not adding potential for it.
I mean battles like Teutoberg Forest, Beth Horon, Gadara, the Persian Gate, etc. Baggage protection scenario doesn't really work for those.

Well it isn't that easy to set it up as a standard scenario type, but we will give it some thought.

[MVP7]

Having the ambushed units moderately disordered for a number of turns could be nice option for proper ambush battles like the Teutoburg forest. In the battle of Megiddo it takes the Egyptians one turn to literally turn their marching formation into completely organized battle line.

[Paul59]

Having the ambushed units moderately disordered for a number of turns could be nice option for proper ambush battles like the Teutoburg forest. In the battle of Megiddo it takes the Egyptians one turn to literally turn their marching formation into completely organized battle line.

I would not consider Megiddo a proper ambush battle. The Hebrews are just deployed out of site, they are a considerable distance from the Egyptians, who would have had plenty of time to deploy from marching column. Historically it was a decisive Egyptian victory, so why penalise them?

[MVP7]

Having the ambushed units moderately disordered for a number of turns could be nice option for proper ambush battles like the Teutoburg forest. In the battle of Megiddo it takes the Egyptians one turn to literally turn their marching formation into completely organized battle line.

I would not consider Megiddo a proper ambush battle. The Hebrews are just deployed out of site, they are a considerable distance from the Egyptians, who would have had plenty of time to deploy from marching column. Historically it was a decisive Egyptian victory, so why penalise them?

Didn't call it a proper ambush but it's a good example of how extremely fast an army can go from marching to deployed in FoG2 (Teutoburg would hardly be and ambush with current game mechanics). In many cases some combat equipment of a marching army would not be carried on person and/or some personal/unit equipment that is not brought to combat would be carried by the soldiers. Setting up the proper formation with every man and leader in their correct place would also probably take some time. On most roads/paths marching formation would probably be more stretched with just a few men marching side by side rather than some 8 man deep/wide combat formation. Re-deploying for battle is not just a matter of "Left Face" and "Preset Arms".

[Paul59]

Having the ambushed units moderately disordered for a number of turns could be nice option for proper ambush battles like the Teutoburg forest. In the battle of Megiddo it takes the Egyptians one turn to literally turn their marching formation into completely organized battle line.

I would not consider Megiddo a proper ambush battle. The Hebrews are just deployed out of site, they are a considerable distance from the Egyptians, who would have had plenty of time to deploy from marching column. Historically it was a decisive Egyptian victory, so why penalise them?

Didn't call it a proper ambush but it's a good example how extremely fast an army can go from marching to deployed in FoG2 (Teutoburg would hardly be and ambush with current game mechanics). In many cases some combat equipment of a marching army would not be carried on person and/or some personal/unit equipment that is not brought to combat would be carried by the soldier. Setting up the proper formation with every man and leader in their correct place would also probably take some time. On most roads/paths marching formation would probably be more stretched with just a few men marching side by side rather than some 8 man deep/wide combat formation. Re-deploying for battle is not just a matter of "Left Face" and "Preset Arms".

I would not argue with that. Obviously, in FOG2 there is no distinction between marching and combat formations. I thought you were criticising the design of Megiddo, and leapt to my own defence. If I was designing an actual ambush scenario, like Teutoberg Forest, I would script in some disadvantage to the ambushed side, such as disorder/disruption/unmovable.

[MVP7]

Yeah, I hope we'll see an ambush battle at some point .

A generic ambush battle type could be a larger army is in marching line in the middle of the map with the enemy units about 4 tiles away on their flank(s). The non-light unit of the ambushed army could be moderately disordered for rando time between 2 to 4 turns (maybe even severely disordered for the first turn). Rear- and vanguard of the ambushed army could arrive as reinforcements from the opposite ends of the battlefield. In generated campaigns a ambush battle could be one possible outcome for the decision to rush after the enemy or leave a rear guard.

Something like this would require completely new code for auto-deploying the units on roads as well as generating a fitting road on the map so I guess it would be a lot of work.

[melm]

Battle of Andrianople is a good example for ambush scenario. OP can have a try if you owned Legion Triumphant DLC.

[Yaitz331]

Battle of Andrianople is a good example for ambush scenario. OP can have a try if you owned Legion Triumphant DLC.

Adrianople? That wasn't an ambush, it was an outflanking.

[Yaitz331]

A generic ambush battle type could be a larger army is in marching line in the middle of the map with the enemy units about 4 tiles away on their flank(s). The non-light unit of the ambushed army could be moderately disordered for rando time between 2 to 4 turns (maybe even severely disordered for the first turn). Rear- and vanguard of the ambushed army could arrive as reinforcements from the opposite ends of the battlefield. In generated campaigns a ambush battle could be one possible outcome for the decision to rush after the enemy or leave a rear guard.

Seems a bit weak to only have the troops moderately disordered. For instance, at Roncevalles, Frankish heavy cavalry was totally wiped out by unarmored Basque forces; moderately disordered doesn't seem enough for that to happen.
Maybe have it so that skirmisher firing automatically makes non-light troops disordered for the first few moves?

[MVP7]

Seems a bit weak to only have the troops moderately disordered. For instance, at Roncevalles, Frankish heavy cavalry was totally wiped out by unarmored Basque forces; moderately disordered doesn't seem enough for that to happen.
Maybe have it so that skirmisher firing automatically makes non-light troops disordered for the first few moves?

One sided wipeout wouldn't make a battle particularly interesting.

[Yaitz331]

Seems a bit weak to only have the troops moderately disordered. For instance, at Roncevalles, Frankish heavy cavalry was totally wiped out by unarmored Basque forces; moderately disordered doesn't seem enough for that to happen.
Maybe have it so that skirmisher firing automatically makes non-light troops disordered for the first few moves?

One sided wipeout wouldn't make a battle particularly interesting.

Maybe after six or so moves the ambushed force would get a very high rallying rate? That would also be historical; if an ambush went on a long time, the ambushed army could recover.

[MVP7]

There are many ways to achieve similar end results of course. My suggestion is just what I considered the most simple way to portray the army scuffling to formation when faced with unexpected enemy.

[stockwellpete]

I am currently designing two "ambush" scenarios that will be available in multi-player shortly. Winwaed 655 AD and Sulcoit 968 AD.