strange multi player experience
strange multi player experience
Set up a multi player game Romano British v Picts and my opponent quit after a couple of turns with us both on 0% casualties saying, 'outnumbered, over powered, interesting!" I manged to get a couple of disruptions on first impact by using my generals but it seemed premature to resign to say the least. Are the Picts that bad?
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- Major-General - Jagdtiger
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Re: strange multi player experience
I think it's an interesting matchup, but in any case with different factions, it's good to always offer a mirror match so that nobody feels screwed by having a worse army.
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- Lance Corporal - Panzer IA
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Re: strange multi player experience
No, but perhaps your opponent was!cromlechi wrote:Are the Picts that bad?
Re: strange multi player experience
Although I beat the Picts with Romano-British on level 3, I thought the Pict units were all better than mine. My entire strategy was to swamp them with numbers.
Re: strange multi player experience
The Picts have the unfortunate situation of having a fairly expensive core unit, which are also unmaneuverable with mediocre combat power and a weak lineup of skirmishers and only OK cavalry support. It certainly is not close to being a competitive army.
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http://www.slitherine.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=494&t=99766&p=861093#p861093
FoG 2 Post Game Analysis Series on Youtube:
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Re: strange multi player experience
On the other hand, are the Romano-British anything to write home about either? They struggle against warband armies unless there's a lot of rough terrain.
Re: strange multi player experience
No but they have the distinct advantage of being able to spam out a large number of units with comparable combat power. A quick review of the options available to both armies at 1200 FP
! indicates good value picks
? indicates poor value picks
Picts:
0/5 Celtic Chariots 36 pts !
1/7 Javelin Horse 24 pts !!
0/2 Superior Warbands (loose) 81 pts
0/4 Warbands (loose) 63 pts
5/15 Pictish Spears 58 pts ??
0/4 Archers 30 pts!
0/4 Javelin 24 pts
Sub Roman Brits:
0/1 Lancer 64 pts
2/5 Noble Cav 44 pts
0/3 Javelin Horse 24 pts !!
0/4 Warbands (Close) 63 pts
3/18 Brythonic Foot 33 pts !
3/18 Sub Roman Foot 30 pts
0/3 Archers 30 pts!
The primary problem for Picts in this matchup is the hordish mass of capable and maneuverable Brythonic Foot that the Sub Roman player will have access to. By no means are they an elite unit but there will be lots of them. They will also be backed by Sub Roman foot who despite being below average do not give up much in combat power to the Pictish spears. A Pictish player can expect to be outnumbered in foot elements by close to a 2 to 1 ratio. The key will be whether the Picts will be able to leverage their superior numbers of skirmishing mounted and foot units into an effective shield against the expected mass showing of foot and find ways to send his cost effective but situational chariots into the rear of the Sub Roman line. This will be a difficult task assuming the Sub Roman player is disciplined in his play and uses his limited skirmishers and cavalry resources wisely to keep the worst of it at bay and that the Sub Roman player will understand basic tactics like a weighted flank attack given this ability to go wide on the Pictish player's infantry line.
At the very least, the Pictish player can expect one flank to be in danger of being turned by enemy infantry. The high cost and relatively subpar capabilities of the Pictish Spears is what is keeping the army down. 58 points is a significant investment. Lets examine what they bring to the table.
They are Offensive Spearmen with Average quality and are lightly protected. Already these are straight up worse stats than the common and very useful Thureophoroi at 42 points. More importantly they are unmaneuverable meaning that they will be hampered when it comes to maneuverability and responsiveness. It makes executing flanks harder and it also limits their ability to get into contact on time especially if lines are staggered. The only advantage, if it can be called that, is that they come in 720 man blocks so they are more resistant to missile fire and can bring +combat strength modifiers to bear if they can stay in a shoving match for an extended period of time. But imo this is actually a liability as the extra 240 men will only really make a serious impact in combat over an extended melee which is not guaranteed to happen.
Expensive, deep ranked units like Warbands and Pikes can getaway with being unmaneverable because they are relatively scary in combat, especially against inferior troops. It can be very difficult for low quality, hordish, armies to line up a flanking maneuver when Warbands or Pikes can come out and smash your hold line within a single exchange of turns given their incredible PoA that can be brought to bear. Pictish spearmen aren't going to be that kind of juggernaught. If for example they had just been regular 480 men blocks and chopped the price by a corrosponding 33% to 36 points with the exact same traits then you get actually a very reasonable unit that lines up well with the existing non-elite medium foot in the game (Italian Foot, Indian Javelins, Irr Foot etc) that you can then spam just like the Sub Romans and have the ability to match their width with your own giving you the ability to better leverage your superior skirmishing power from the light horse.
The one thing going for the Picts is that they have access to two Superior Warbands which maybe able to do some work. But they are at serious risk of overextending given their propensity to chase and purchasing such expensive units vs the Romano Brits means even fewer units to form a battle line making it even easier for the opposition to flank AND have depth options.
Neither army is a contender for being a juggernaught in an League setting, but the Picts are definitely a full grade below the Sub Romans when considering the head to head matchup and against a wide field of opponents on Potluck terrain.
! indicates good value picks
? indicates poor value picks
Picts:
0/5 Celtic Chariots 36 pts !
1/7 Javelin Horse 24 pts !!
0/2 Superior Warbands (loose) 81 pts
0/4 Warbands (loose) 63 pts
5/15 Pictish Spears 58 pts ??
0/4 Archers 30 pts!
0/4 Javelin 24 pts
Sub Roman Brits:
0/1 Lancer 64 pts
2/5 Noble Cav 44 pts
0/3 Javelin Horse 24 pts !!
0/4 Warbands (Close) 63 pts
3/18 Brythonic Foot 33 pts !
3/18 Sub Roman Foot 30 pts
0/3 Archers 30 pts!
The primary problem for Picts in this matchup is the hordish mass of capable and maneuverable Brythonic Foot that the Sub Roman player will have access to. By no means are they an elite unit but there will be lots of them. They will also be backed by Sub Roman foot who despite being below average do not give up much in combat power to the Pictish spears. A Pictish player can expect to be outnumbered in foot elements by close to a 2 to 1 ratio. The key will be whether the Picts will be able to leverage their superior numbers of skirmishing mounted and foot units into an effective shield against the expected mass showing of foot and find ways to send his cost effective but situational chariots into the rear of the Sub Roman line. This will be a difficult task assuming the Sub Roman player is disciplined in his play and uses his limited skirmishers and cavalry resources wisely to keep the worst of it at bay and that the Sub Roman player will understand basic tactics like a weighted flank attack given this ability to go wide on the Pictish player's infantry line.
At the very least, the Pictish player can expect one flank to be in danger of being turned by enemy infantry. The high cost and relatively subpar capabilities of the Pictish Spears is what is keeping the army down. 58 points is a significant investment. Lets examine what they bring to the table.
They are Offensive Spearmen with Average quality and are lightly protected. Already these are straight up worse stats than the common and very useful Thureophoroi at 42 points. More importantly they are unmaneuverable meaning that they will be hampered when it comes to maneuverability and responsiveness. It makes executing flanks harder and it also limits their ability to get into contact on time especially if lines are staggered. The only advantage, if it can be called that, is that they come in 720 man blocks so they are more resistant to missile fire and can bring +combat strength modifiers to bear if they can stay in a shoving match for an extended period of time. But imo this is actually a liability as the extra 240 men will only really make a serious impact in combat over an extended melee which is not guaranteed to happen.
Expensive, deep ranked units like Warbands and Pikes can getaway with being unmaneverable because they are relatively scary in combat, especially against inferior troops. It can be very difficult for low quality, hordish, armies to line up a flanking maneuver when Warbands or Pikes can come out and smash your hold line within a single exchange of turns given their incredible PoA that can be brought to bear. Pictish spearmen aren't going to be that kind of juggernaught. If for example they had just been regular 480 men blocks and chopped the price by a corrosponding 33% to 36 points with the exact same traits then you get actually a very reasonable unit that lines up well with the existing non-elite medium foot in the game (Italian Foot, Indian Javelins, Irr Foot etc) that you can then spam just like the Sub Romans and have the ability to match their width with your own giving you the ability to better leverage your superior skirmishing power from the light horse.
The one thing going for the Picts is that they have access to two Superior Warbands which maybe able to do some work. But they are at serious risk of overextending given their propensity to chase and purchasing such expensive units vs the Romano Brits means even fewer units to form a battle line making it even easier for the opposition to flank AND have depth options.
Neither army is a contender for being a juggernaught in an League setting, but the Picts are definitely a full grade below the Sub Romans when considering the head to head matchup and against a wide field of opponents on Potluck terrain.
Stratford Scramble Tournament
http://www.slitherine.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=494&t=99766&p=861093#p861093
FoG 2 Post Game Analysis Series on Youtube:
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCKmEROEwX2fgjoQLlQULhPg/
http://www.slitherine.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=494&t=99766&p=861093#p861093
FoG 2 Post Game Analysis Series on Youtube:
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCKmEROEwX2fgjoQLlQULhPg/
Re: strange multi player experience
Great analysis. Wish I could do that. Out of interest this was the end position. I admit I did feel confident, even at this early stage due to overlap.
Re: strange multi player experience
Great analysis. Wish I could do that. Out of interest this was the end position. I admit I did feel confident, even at this early stage due to overlap.
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Re: strange multi player experience
Oh dear he gave up far too early. Your attack is rather disjointed. Somehow you let him contact you on the non flanking side when your flanking force was at least 5-6 turns from being ready. You were risking defeat in detail.
Stratford Scramble Tournament
http://www.slitherine.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=494&t=99766&p=861093#p861093
FoG 2 Post Game Analysis Series on Youtube:
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCKmEROEwX2fgjoQLlQULhPg/
http://www.slitherine.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=494&t=99766&p=861093#p861093
FoG 2 Post Game Analysis Series on Youtube:
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCKmEROEwX2fgjoQLlQULhPg/
Re: strange multi player experience
That is a good point, I was engaged on my left but the right flank had a lot of plodding to do to join in the battle. We'll never know I guess. I'd be happy to play a mirror match against anyone interested.
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Re: strange multi player experience
There are a lot of quitters out there. I have had 4 in the last fortnight. Not in the FOG2DL mind.MikeC_81 wrote:Oh dear he gave up far too early. Your attack is rather disjointed. Somehow you let him contact you on the non flanking side when your flanking force was at least 5-6 turns from being ready. You were risking defeat in detail.
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Re: strange multi player experience
To be honest, i've not had any of my oponents quit so far, I wish some of them would though, instead of kicking my ass