Schiltron 2013 ...a noobs V2 cherry firmly popped

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chubooga
Sergeant - 7.5 cm FK 16 nA
Sergeant - 7.5 cm FK 16 nA
Posts: 240
Joined: Tue Aug 19, 2008 10:00 am

Schiltron 2013 ...a noobs V2 cherry firmly popped

Post by chubooga »

Heading north on sat morn I knew I had crossed the north wall not just through snow blizzards but especially when I saw a car of gingers drinking Iron Bru... hello Scortlund!

finally found the hotel after my sat nav, despite having foreign maps, failed to recognise the motorway in Glasgow....

a quick booking in to a very friendly hotel staff who printed directions to the venue for me.... great start to my plan to learn V2 by entering a tourney... it had worked with fog ren when I was made most welcome by foggers in the ren period... but with only 3 V2 games in and no FOG games for some years beforehand my experience was very low but hopes were high!

I took Late Ach Persians

IC
2 x TC
3 x 4 cav A A U Lt Sp Sw
1 x 4 cav P S U bw sw
2 x 4 LH lt sp jav
1 x 4 LH bw sw
1 x 2 ele
1 x 2 scythed chariots
1 x 6 HF P A D off sp
1 x 4 HF P E D 1/2 off sp 1/2 bw
1 x 6 lf bw
1 x 6 lf sling
1 x 4 MF U A def sp
2 x 2 cav E A D lancer sw
1 x 6MF P A Lt Sp

16 BG, 2 games played with them but full of hopes to learn the new rules and find a FOG enclave in the north east

Game 1 Guy Hunter - Early Successor... HF army...bugger ; (

Guy spread out on deployment and as I tried to wrap both flanks he began a generaly move across the table torwards my left flank... presssure was building on the left while my right was chasing the retreating pikes catching up with them just next to some rough going filled with a shooty cav and mob, well handled pike were preventing me finding the flank I needed.... eventually Guy generously failed to spot a cav unit lurking amongst my LH on an open flank of a pike unit... they charge in, supported frontally bysome infantry , the pike folded in short time opening his line up and my cav poured into more pike flanks and the mob .... with the elephants picking off his lancer unit his army broke and the persians hit a 25-0.. it was a good interesting game against a friendly and helpful opponent... Guys handling of the pike showed me what can be done with HF armies and his play impressed me with the options available... great start!

Game 2 Leslie Mitchell - Alexandrian...HF army.... bugger!

Worse still, Leslie admitted to being a Geordie, now thats a brave thing to do.... instant grudge match with me deploying my limited skills on behalf of my fellow mackems from the metropolis of Sunderland, while Leslie had the misfortune of playing out his dirty tricks while representing barcodes from under the dark damp cobbled streets of newcastle..... pre game chit chat brought up several shared gaming interests such as bkc and warmaster amogst others, Leslie had a wealth of experience of many tourneys and was kind enough to explain lots of rules from various systems to me... even name dropping that he plays regularly against someone called Hammy.... hah, I think he thought that would intimidate me.... it did :P .

under a barrage of rules explanations Leslie proceeded to demonstrate in an unsubtle manner how manouverable pike blocks are, and how to use them to squeeze the limited options out of my plan to wrap the flanks... my only chance came when my Elephants got behind his inf line and charged a LFunit protecting the rear of his spear..he passed the CMT to take the charge in the open with LF and my chance had gone... had they fled the rear of his spear would have received a good elephanting.... the only thing spinning more than the pike was my head and I offered my hand and my apologues to the better player as my brain exploded from information overload seconds before my army imploded under pike overload.......1-24 as I had visited the ladies in Leslie camp before game end.. (NB we did check about LF taking the charge in the open and realised we had made a mistake, nothing more than that)......I did agree to wear his Newcastle octopus as a hat as punishment for my poor contribution to the game :( .

So, a mixed bag on day 1, heading back to the hotel the temptation was there to give it a miss and head home as I felt horribly underprepared for the tourney and hadnt offered Leslie any game at all.... in my usual time based decision making way I delayed the decision till the morning....

which arrived with new motivation to stick with it and learn all I could, surely I couldnt play any worse than the second game.....

Game 3 Scott Mentiply - medieval germans... sp and knights (argh!)

What a gent! as friendly and relaxed a game as Ive ever had..... frontally the spear and knights were formidable opponents to my cav so I went for the flanks again...Scott refused his left (my right) which I skirmished against while pushing some kinsmen and supporting MF all the way to his base line... but the real action was on my left flank... up against the table edge I had a LH and the shooty cav... next to them chariots and ele with kinsmen in support... Scott had two units of shooty cav with firearms/xbow A and sword.... nasty..... next to them his knights... not a great line up... but I piled into the flank units the shooty cav and kinsmen outmatched and outdiced against the armoured sw of the shooters.. it was down to the chariots to take a knight unit down.. they crashed against the knight line.. or rather I think they just crashed, failing to do a thing... it was down to the elephants as I doubted I would be able to hold on for long disadvantaged and outdiced aginst his armoured shooters.... the elephants had one of the games you dream of when you put them in the lists.... taking down a general and the knights while the outmatched cv even took down their opponents... lucky dice had compensated for poor play and his flank was open.... the other knight unit now found itself outflanked and when it failed to control its charge was intercepted and hit in flank droppping it a level..impact took it down another level.. then we hit a rules query... do they turn to face the flank attack or not? conformind says something about MUST be in a normal unit ater conforming, but theres alsot something about not turning if it exposed a flank to another charge which this one did... we played they turned... they did and they went down.... on the other extremen flankthe kinsmen and MF def spear piled into some 'hold the line' poor xbow breaking them and taking the army down for a 24-1 to me.... I really enjoyed this game as it was relaxed and friendly with rules discussed.... Scott was a gent to play against and barring the bad luck at the key point in the line this game was going to go to the wire

Game 3, after a reshuffle of opponents due to previous results saw me playing Paul Johnston using Albanians cav and LH/LF I know Paul as a friend from previous years and knew I was in for a tough game, but with us languishing in mid table I was sure I would be picking some great tips up from an ex champ.

Got to the table and was warmly welcomed, with chit chat about results so far concluded we got down to it, after being told that he would not be taking it easy or letting me off with anything I found myself almost apologising for slow play before we even started after it was made clear to me that we MUST get a result... nearly recovering my senses I explained I had never slow played in my life and all my games I try to play for a conclusive result either way....

Deployment saw the Albanian long line of LF and LH with some mounted units at the back, more of which later, one unit was descrived as protect LT Sp..aha a target for my armoured Averag cav... but overall hardly an army to get a quick result I thought but NM 8) ... I deployed with my foot oppossite the LF and cav opposite some LH... Ele and chariots in centre opposite the Albanian camp.

a general advance along the line from both sides saw a concentration of shooting on the Elephants take them out.... repeated charges (which resulted in some discussion on directions as I hadnt marked the directions only described them) and evades from the LF was gradually pushing the Albanian centre back, while reinforcements onto my right flank was increasing the pressure there too... but it was on my left were the game was decided....Paul had two LH units on his extreme end of line, these I pressured with a LH and a Kinsman unit...while all the while I pushed my block of shooty cav and a supporting unit of armoured cav into the front of Pauls protected Ltspear cav... the Albanians had brought upthe other two units of mounted in support in 2x2 blocks... one of these charged into my shooty cav in not too bad I thought... surviving the lance at impact it was even in melee I thought and was startled to see Paul begin to expand the rear rnk forwards... dont need to do that I explained as theyre already contributing to the melee.....wait for it................. wait for it............no they not, because these are HA S knights!.......(now then, at the start we did describe units, I swear down I heard Paul say these were Protected Lt Sp and these armoured lance, Paul swears down he described them as Knights, what a misunderstanding! game changer if ever) aaaaarrrrghhhhhh! my heart sank, while I hadnt much experience I had enough to know what the knights were gonna do to my cav ..... sheeeeesh, the other two units werent armoured lancers, but heavy armored knights... and I had moved into them with 2x2 blocks of armoured average cav.... game over I thought... but I was determinded to give it a go.... lookng round I could see no hope...nothing to prevent my cav folding while my foot pursued LF across the table...

then I saw that kinsmen unit busy pressurising the LH... they were behind the knights' flank...but in the front 180degrees of the kinsmen.... a quick measure and yes! they were within charge distance.. .I declared the charge thinking I had a small glimmer of hope here.... only for it to be snuffed out when Paul told me you can only charge 45degrees either side of straight ahead, 90degrees in total charge arc..... arrrrrrghhhhhh! all hope gone... I saw no point in clarting around with skirmishers for hours while holding Paul off just to lurk in mid table so charged everything in... kinsmen againt the LH who stood and other cav against knights and LF against LH...despite killing a general (and putting enough pressure on for Paul to accidently move a LH unit positioned on the flank of my own LH before realising they werent behind the flank after a reform so shuffling them into position while moving another unit :wink: )...it was a matter of time, the inevitable happened and my army collapsed in short order :cry: ...... mishandled and presented with an impossible task, the persians let me know what they thought of my skills......fortunately this gave Paul the big win his army needed to climb out of mid table and secure glory into a highly respectable second place...huzzah!

The game was decided as soon as the knights were found to be knights and not cav... what a shame, as while Im sure I was going to get beaten anyway Im sure I couldve learnt more and left the tourney on a high.

Overall, the tourney was great fun and there was a real friendly vibe around the hall, even with me being on my own I never felt out of things, always found wargamers a great bunch for that...however with real ups and downs and my big win/big loss/ big win/big loss results Im not sure what I actually learnt about the game!

apart from I must play a lot more games a lot more often than I am at the minute....

advert - opponents wanted in the Sunderland area.
kevinj
Major-General - Tiger I
Major-General - Tiger I
Posts: 2379
Joined: Sun Feb 25, 2007 11:21 am
Location: Derbyshire, UK

Re: Schiltron 2013 ...a noobs V2 cherry firmly popped

Post by kevinj »

Great AAR. Schiltron is always a fun competition. One thing does puzzle me though:
you can only charge 45 degrees either side of straight ahead, 90degrees in total charge arc
This seems to contradict page 9-2, "A charge move can include a single wheel of up to 90 degrees". Am I reading one of these wrongly?
navigator
Master Sergeant - Bf 109E
Master Sergeant - Bf 109E
Posts: 485
Joined: Wed May 13, 2009 3:18 pm

Re: Schiltron 2013 ...a noobs V2 cherry firmly popped

Post by navigator »

cheers John...just a few of things... lessons learnt all round.

a.'must get a result'... said with a smile of course

b. the knight mix up didnt help the game but ... i was only moving them four inches a move though and the figures do look like knights too; But will ensure in future that my opponent clearly understands what each of my troop types are before we start the game- misunderstandings can spoil things. Interestingly i thought all but one of your cavalry was superior so i have only just seen that in your report they were virtually all average.

c. the 'charging 45 degree thing- not sure which bit of the game you mean by this . Your elite cav turned 90 degrees and moved 3 inches so they could charge the flank of my 'imposter knights in the next bound. To save my knights I chose to charge the flank of your cavalry with my LH. Your other LH intercepted me. Then i got lucky and survived

D. I hold my hand up over the jiggling LH on the flank- my head was fuddled and i apologised- and we fought the fight as a front charge
e. I think the key lesson from our game was the need for clarity at the end of a tiring weekend. As was discussed, I alway mark charges by a dice and direction of charge shown by either a measuring stick/angling the troops concerned.
f. hope there is no residual bad feeling-
g. hope you continue to persevere with fog am and am happy to come up- and continue the discussion offline if necessary.
h. One last tongue in cheek tip- you did forget to mention how your scythed chariots fragged my knights and took a base off them too! If your cav had supported behind the chariots then maybe you could have charged the fragged knights- instead you charged my protected cav and got extremely bad luck on the dice to lose the cav in double quick time. And the elephants that went pop didnt help too.
chubooga
Sergeant - 7.5 cm FK 16 nA
Sergeant - 7.5 cm FK 16 nA
Posts: 240
Joined: Tue Aug 19, 2008 10:00 am

Re: Schiltron 2013 ...a noobs V2 cherry firmly popped

Post by chubooga »

kevinj wrote:Great AAR. Schiltron is always a fun competition. One thing does puzzle me though:
you can only charge 45 degrees either side of straight ahead, 90degrees in total charge arc
This seems to contradict page 9-2, "A charge move can include a single wheel of up to 90 degrees". Am I reading one of these wrongly?
I will read this bit up so I understand it properly.... must admit to not checking it during the game as my opponents explanation was very clear and very confident so just sucked it up and threw everything in......with the charge not allowed this elite unit instead turned 90degrees and moved 3 forwards to threaten the flank of the disguised knights :wink: ... the charge wouldve dropped the knights down another level and give me a realistic chance of breaking them through weight of dice on evens....

@ Paul... np, lots of things missed off all the battle reports as theres a lot happening and didnt want to push the wordcount up too much (hard to tell that from my essay above though!) and yes, another unit behind the chariots wouldve exploited the lucky result they had againts the knights... but by then I had already charged everything in to get lucky quick or loose quick... genuinely felt the game was decided as soon as the cav became knights...

but overall... yes I did enjoy the weekend.... and do think V2 is a big improvement over v1... not sure I will convince any of my gaming buds enough to get them to play it though. which is a shame as Ive a fair few armies.... but well worth sticking with for some more games...

if anyones in the Sunderland area anytime and wants to pop in for game just let me know
navigator
Master Sergeant - Bf 109E
Master Sergeant - Bf 109E
Posts: 485
Joined: Wed May 13, 2009 3:18 pm

Re: Schiltron 2013 ...a noobs V2 cherry firmly popped

Post by navigator »

ok cheers Jon... but that 45 degree thing wasnt mentioned by me so maybe it was in another game (doesnt matter really)-the v2 change is clear on no wheel in a charge of more than 90 degrees (or words to that effect); and i know i discussed that at some point elsewhere.

Anyhow it was a tough match up all round

upwards and onwards and am sure you will be back for more at some point. Bayfog in October?
chubooga
Sergeant - 7.5 cm FK 16 nA
Sergeant - 7.5 cm FK 16 nA
Posts: 240
Joined: Tue Aug 19, 2008 10:00 am

Re: Schiltron 2013 ...a noobs V2 cherry firmly popped

Post by chubooga »

defo you in that last game Paul...the not allowed charge was the reason the kinsmen had to turn 90 then move 3inches towards the knights' flank, if the charge had gone in they wouldve wheeled 90 instead of turning 90 and the full 5' move wouldve took them in......... I even used the measuring stick to demonstrate what you had said and you confirmed it was 45degrees from straight ahead for a total of 90degrees..... it sounded good which was why I bought it......... but hey ho, my mistake for not check the rules.

bayfog could be a goer... but in my usual way I find it hard to commit to anything early on...... can see the advantages as far as planning and practice goes, but oth, just never know which game is gonna catch my mood at any point... fog last week, BKC tonight, warhammer fanny battle thursday, fartyk friday... prob bit of warmachine over the weekend... lol... kinda explains my confusion over rules with so many differnt things underway.......relly should settle on a single ruleset, esp if its one like FOG with a more absorbing gameplay ...

the tourney did help me get a better feel for its subtlties... and our chat afterwards gave a lot food for thought on the long drive home...... do fancy another Xyston army though..maybe classical indians.... but could I paint them in time for bayfog? time to plan it out while the motivations hot
navigator
Master Sergeant - Bf 109E
Master Sergeant - Bf 109E
Posts: 485
Joined: Wed May 13, 2009 3:18 pm

Re: Schiltron 2013 ...a noobs V2 cherry firmly popped

Post by navigator »

hi jon strange how there's two different views of a situation... just like being married again!

Still I cant ever remember saying about 45 degree thing as ive never played that... and the 2 man unit wasnt within 5 inches of the imposter knights flank... Your chaps were away to the side but offset facing my light horse who were just a few inches in front of them. The Kinsmen turned 90degrees and moved 3 inches to bring them within 4inches of the knight's flank so that they could intercept when my knights charged forward in the next bound. But it left the 2 man unit's flank in front of my LH who then had to sacrifice themselves in a flank charge on you.

Therefore surely your chaps werent in charge reach of the imposter knights flank or behind it either at the start of your move. Makes no odds now but we seem to have a different recollection of how the situation played out. Just as well we are not witnesses in a court case....

there's always the scottish open in december to have a rematch
regards
paul
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