Points Values - the whole damn lot

[benjones1211]

To me Impact/Pistol/Hvy Lance are pretty much the same.
In the open
Impact beats Pistol
Pistol beats Hvy Lance
Hvy Lance beats Impact

Its basically a round robin, the only difference is losing to the Lance or impact is -1 on the CMT which should suggest if anything that pistol should be less than the other 2 but then
Impact pistol get a + v spearmen which the others don't, and also counts not in the open against everyone except impact mtd which is now a draw
which makes up for the above
So why shouldn't they all be 2 pts and Light Lance 1 pt

[Jhykronos]

It would - one reason I'm wanting feedback sooner rather than later

Messing with the point cost of the Pistol/Pistol types somewhat overhauls my perception of the work that has been done so far... my own paradigm had the horse pistol/pistol costed and functioning properly, and we were adjusting everything else around them.

Ultimately the question is probably is it worth trying to have different points cost for Light and Heavy Lancers? If so options are probably 0 and 1 or 1 and 2 and this can knock on to other Impact capability costs.

Ugh, this is a lot of headache, that is barely worth the handful of situations where the list writer decided to get cute and classify Gendarmes with Light Lance or Horse with Heavy Lance. (Otherwise, you could have just had a "Lance" classification, and worked the POAs based on the troop type).

The problem with leaving things as they are is that there are historical matchups where the light lancers are considerably worse for the same point cost. That's a failure in any point system.

Related is whether Impact Mounted is 1 or 2 points more than Impact pistol.

As a user of Poles, both work for me. (The Hussar points issue was mainly wrapped into being determined horse, followed by the drawback of being swordsmen)

[Jhykronos]

To me Impact/Pistol/Hvy Lance are pretty much the same.
In the open
Impact beats Pistol
Pistol beats Hvy Lance
Hvy Lance beats Impact

Impact Mtd. is also much rarer than the other two. Also, in-period, there are VERY few impact mounted in existence at the same time as the Heavy Lancers. Rock, Paper, Scissors isn't necessarily balanced in a world where there is a shortage of Rocks.

[benjones1211]

If Horse pistol/pistol actually go up in price which we were using as the standard, should Cavalry/Camelry pricing be looked at again as they will be getting cheaper in proportion.

[nikgaukroger]

If Horse pistol/pistol actually go up in price which we were using as the standard, should Cavalry/Camelry pricing be looked at again as they will be getting cheaper in proportion.

Currently there is are no suggestions that the base cost of Horse should change, there is a question of whether the drop back suggested for Cavalry should mean they cost a point extra than the equivalent Horse.

What would increase the cost of troops is a change in the cost of Impact pistol to 2 points which would obviously affect all troops so armed.

Pi/Pi Horse are not per se a standard, they just crop up in comparisons a lot as they are an important and common troops type, especially when considering how much more the equivalent DH cost. They are a useful reference point, but their cost is not inviolate.

[DavidT]

We played another game last night using the proposed points changes (as well as the other proposed rule amendments).

My Milanese v my opponent's Border Reivers.

My opponent's comment was that he thought the points reduction was too much (generally all his mounted is 2 points per base cheaper except for his Sup Arm Cav which are 3 points per base cheaper) - he could easily have had 20 BGs, although he opted for 18 by bulking out some of his infantry BGs. When we have played in the past his Border Reivers usually have 15 or 16 BGs.

His comments are partly swayed by his desire not to paint any more Scottish LH (he had drafted in a few Cossacks), but also by the fact that we may now see more, bigger swarm armies which has generally not been a problem with FOG-R in the past.

[nikgaukroger]

His comments are partly swayed by his desire not to paint any more Scottish LH (he had drafted in a few Cossacks), but also by the fact that we may now see more, bigger swarm armies which has generally not been a problem with FOG-R in the past.

That was the reason we previously suggested that army break points should be 1 per 50AP in order to mitigate the swarm effect - but people assured us that it wasn't necessary.

It could be put back in as a safety net of course.