Dragoons - proposal
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Re: Dragoons - proposal
Hi,
Any comments on Dragoons from any test games. Comments from our club so far seem to suggest that they have become so dependent on terrain that they have become emasculated and are being dropped from army lists. If people have a light horse option they are now in front of Dragoons which is a shame as they were a challenge to use before but not a useless troop type.
Any comments on Dragoons from any test games. Comments from our club so far seem to suggest that they have become so dependent on terrain that they have become emasculated and are being dropped from army lists. If people have a light horse option they are now in front of Dragoons which is a shame as they were a challenge to use before but not a useless troop type.
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- Staff Sergeant - StuG IIIF
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Re: Dragoons - proposal
In play tests I have found them to be very difficult to use successfully. The only reason I now use them in my Swedish army is because they are a cheap BG. Maybe this is historical, but if it sees the omission of dragoons from lists it will be a bad thing. One option is to make them cheaper, the other is possibly to give them a 4MU move as a compromise.
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- Staff Sergeant - StuG IIIF
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Re: Dragoons - proposal
That's a 4MU move when within 6MU of the enemy.
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- Sergeant First Class - Panzer IIIL
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Re: Dragoons - proposal
So dragoons cost 1 more point than MF, once within 6MU of enemy they are treated as MF
Pro
Can do a 3MU move backwards facing the same way
Can evade if charged
Move quickly outside 6MU
Cons
Can only fire in one rank
Cannot charge enemy in the open even in the flank or rear
Is this difference worth a point or should they be the same price.
Or should they now be allowed to charge flanks and rear in the open and/or shoot in two ranks (they do melee in two ranks, or should I say there is nothing that says they can't unlike the other exceptions so I have always allowed it.)
Also allowing them to shoot in two ranks (where possible, ie fields, BG, Steep hill etc, ) make them easier to hide in terrain and be effective.
Pro
Can do a 3MU move backwards facing the same way
Can evade if charged
Move quickly outside 6MU
Cons
Can only fire in one rank
Cannot charge enemy in the open even in the flank or rear
Is this difference worth a point or should they be the same price.
Or should they now be allowed to charge flanks and rear in the open and/or shoot in two ranks (they do melee in two ranks, or should I say there is nothing that says they can't unlike the other exceptions so I have always allowed it.)
Also allowing them to shoot in two ranks (where possible, ie fields, BG, Steep hill etc, ) make them easier to hide in terrain and be effective.
Re: Dragoons - proposal
I think definitely their extra mobility up to 6" is worth a point. I am very against reducing dragoons points as I still think they are useful. They were far too powerful before.
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- Major-General - Tiger I
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Re: Dragoons - proposal
Another pro is that they count towards your pre-battle initiative.
Re: Dragoons - proposal
"Powerful" is probably not the right word (in and of themselves, they didn't dominate the tabletop)... Too "flexible"/ "points-efficient"/ "a-historical" is probably more accurate.spedders wrote:I think definitely their extra mobility up to 6" is worth a point. I am very against reducing dragoons points as I still think they are useful. They were far too powerful before.
Re: Dragoons - proposal
I would say if people will now be more likely to use their light horse as light horse than their dragoons as light horse, then the proposal is an unmitigated success.jonphilp wrote:Hi,
Any comments on Dragoons from any test games. Comments from our club so far seem to suggest that they have become so dependent on terrain that they have become emasculated and are being dropped from army lists. If people have a light horse option they are now in front of Dragoons which is a shame as they were a challenge to use before but not a useless troop type.
Re: Dragoons - proposal
By powerful I meant for their points it was a no brainer to take them at their points cost.
Re: Dragoons - proposal
I have tried out the new dragoon rules . I my humble opinion if they are taken ( I suspect they will become quite an elusive sight on the table top) unless the terrain is spot on you will find dragoons acting as a camp guard as they are now even a greater liability than before. Trying to replicate their use during the ECW will be very difficult. Hopefully more play testing will show if the amendment to the basic rules achieves what was intended. A shame I have never seen dragoon sniper teams in action.
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- Staff Sergeant - StuG IIIF
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Re: Dragoons - proposal
Dragoons have been used in almost every one of my playtests so far.
You cannot use them in the open to delay mounted like LH, they must find a piece of terrain to hide in.
If attacked, they are committed and cannot be withdrawn. If attacked by superior numbers, they need to be supported or they will be destroyed.
I generally have no issues with this - it would appear to be more historical. However, Dragoons are no longer the super troops they were and so may disappear from competitive armies.
By the way, the Swedish Dragoons at Breitenfeld were deployed to guard the baggage.
You cannot use them in the open to delay mounted like LH, they must find a piece of terrain to hide in.
If attacked, they are committed and cannot be withdrawn. If attacked by superior numbers, they need to be supported or they will be destroyed.
I generally have no issues with this - it would appear to be more historical. However, Dragoons are no longer the super troops they were and so may disappear from competitive armies.
By the way, the Swedish Dragoons at Breitenfeld were deployed to guard the baggage.
Re: Dragoons - proposal
As we discussed at the club yesterday we all have obviously been playing the rules incorrectly as we have never seen dragoons as "super troops ". In our games dragons have mainly been speed bumps for determined horse when out in the open. With the new rules this will be a given unless you are prone to throw low dice .
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Re: Dragoons - proposal
In my case, not so much "prone"; more like "certain".jonphilp wrote:....unless you are prone to throw low dice .
"No plan survives the first contact with the dice."
"There is something wrong with our bloody dice today!"
"There is something wrong with our bloody dice today!"
Re: Dragoons - proposal
But at least you are consistent in your die rolls and it makes Paul feel a little better when he is opposite you on the table.