Northern Border Crisis campaign - Tips for nomad ?

[Ohf]

Hi ! So I'm currently playing the Northern Border Crisis campaign (daimyo difficulty) as the nomads and get trampled again and again by the Ming.

Because of the Ming overwhelming numbers, I usually have to merge my starting armies to take down the main Ming army. Even in (home region) steppes, I don't get garrisons. During the battle itself, I'm usually able to rout 25% of their army quite easily by concentrating my attack, but by then my troops are weakened/disrupted and the battle drags on as the Ming have sooo many regiments. Their firepower quickly overwhelms my guys.

It goes even worse if I try to fight the Ming on other terrains with all those pesky woods.

And thats tactical. On the strategic map, they siege my region in zero/one turns with their arty, while I need a whole year to get a region. As a result I'm on the defensive, can't get the initiative, my army gets smaller after each defeat etc...

If i try to go the other way and divide my forces in multiples armies, I have to fight in 4 med cav and 2 light cav against 10 inf, 5 cav, 2 guns type of battles.

Do you have any advice to succesfully win the campaign as nomads ? I don't like to lower difficulty, but I might do it in the end...

[Paul59]

There are a few tricks to using a horse archer army.

First, always buy as many Light Horse as you possibly can. They are your most effective weapons. They are manoueverable and can easily retreat away from danger, or concentrate for an attack. They take less casualties from missile fire. Very importantly, the AI will sometimes ignore them, allowing you to manouevre and attack your chosen targets while the AI sits around doing very little. You could maybe experiment by playing a few skirmish games, although the army lists may not let you build an army with lots of light horse. In a campaign that is less of a problem as you can recruit separate armies in different provinces and combine the light horse later.

On the campaign map, try to avoid the provinces with difficult terrain. If you are losing, go on the defensive and lure them into fighting you on the Steppe. At the start of each year, try and destroy as many of their armies as quickly as you can. You can create a main army containing all of your Light Horse, to do all the hard work. Once you have defeated them badly enough to leave you alone, you can concentrate your armies on one province to try and take it.

On the battlefield always use your light horse to get around the AI's flank and concentrate missile fire on one unit at a time. When you have obtained a morale drop on the unit, switch fire to another unit for the rest of that turn, as you can only get one morale drop on a unit due to missile fire per turn. Try and destroy the AI's frontline cavalry first, as otherwise they would be free to attack your heavy cavalry. They are also worth a lot of points, and their loss will increase the enemies routed percentage more. If you are badly outnumbered try to hide your heavy cavalry as best you can, or use them as bait to lure the AI away from your light horse. Keep them out of danger, until the time is right to join the fight. Some of the Ming/Qing infantry are vulnerable to charges from Mongol heavy cavalry, but you should avoid the infantry with attached light guns, they are just a bit too tough an opponent in the impact phase.


If I think of anything else I will post again.

[Ohf]

Hello Paul59 !

I followed your tips and did much better this time (although I lost...)

Raised the max light horse as you said, and the first year was strategic cat-and-mouse. Second year I moved into Beijing with my main force, and the Ming came with his doomstack : 160 000 Ming against 40 000 Mongols. . 4 lines deep style of army. But the terrain was very open, and I felt I could win.

I kept my main cav at the back of the battlefield and got all my light cavalry on the left flank. Luckily the AI had most of his cavalry in front of them. My light horse made a quick job of dispatching them (20% rout), while the Ming infantry blob advanced forward. At this point I threw all my heavy and medium cavalry to the right, while my light horse got behind and down the enemy line, skirmishing here and there (routing the ennemy C-inC) but priority was to join my main body. Things went pretty good then, alternating concentration fire + charge on the Ming infantry. I got them to 45% rout while I was at 20%.

But everything went very very bad when the AI lined three matchlocks+RG at the bottom of my formation. They chewed one of my unit each turn, until the domino effect got my whole line disrupted/fragmented. I guessed I should have kept some cavalry in reserve to rear charge those guys. In the end I lost(61%) while Ming was at 53%.
Right after the battle my second army took a western province, but the Ming main army walked into one of mine and took it instantly...

However I feel like I'm getting the hang of this ! It is quite a challenge for sure. Thanks a lot for your advice, it is very helpful.

[Ohf]

Because I'm "learning" I allowed myself to reload the previous battle, as I saved right after I finished off the ennemy cav. So last time the problem was that the Ming fire-squaded me to death. Instead of turning and turning to flee those guys, I overcame my allergy to charge non-disrupted troops and launched a frontal charge with all my heavy cav.

It worked !



And Beijing fell ! But the Ming are still strong and now I must face 150 000 Ming with my 40 000 nomads (they got some experience, which is nice), although this time in a heavy wooded environment.

Another question : is there a difference between Jurchen and Mongol troops ? Stat-wise they seem to be the same. Since your can recruit Jurchen troops in one province as the Nomads, I was wondering if I should avoid or focus on them.

Edit :

So I lost the battle in the woods, the Ming had woods and rice paddies forming natural fortifications all around their formation, I wasnt able to get in and retreated with a few losses. After that however I took two more provinces from them, and by the next spring my army was 70 000 horsemen strong ! The AI didnt want to fight me, and their army quickly melted away. I won the campaign the following year : 2 battles, 1 victory and 1 (not so much) defeat !

[rbodleyscott]

Another question : is there a difference between Jurchen and Mongol troops ? Stat-wise they seem to be the same. Since your can recruit Jurchen troops in one province as the Nomads, I was wondering if I should avoid or focus on them.

Their forces come from different lists. The troops are similar, but the Jurchen have more armoured cavalry.

[Paul59]

Hi Ohf,

I'm glad that my tactics worked for you. Sometimes, as in your second battle, you will find that the AI are in too strong a position for you to have any chance of winning. In that situation just try and stay out of too much trouble, and avoid getting totally defeated. If a side is totally defeated, ie; they reach the 40% (and 25% more than their enemy) or 60% rout thresholds, they will take additional casualties on top of what they actually lose on the battlefield, so just accept a marginal defeat and retreat. This seems to have been what happened for you.

If you try the Dzungar war, you will find that the Mongol forces are slightly different. They have some dismounted tribesmen, which is an advantage on the campaign map, as infantry are more effective in sieges than cavalry, however on the battlefield they are usually a bit of a liability, as they are no match for the Qing Infantry and so have to be protected or hidden. Some of the later Mongol light horse are 50% carbine, instead of 100% bow, and they are actually less effective.

[jomni]

Congratulations. The mismatch in army doctrine sure is interesting. And winning using horse armies need some skill and creativity. Terrain will definitely be more crucial.

Number of men don't matter much. It is more on the number of points the army has. Points is a better measure of strength. And as long as the size of the circles on the map are equal size or yours are larger, then you are good to go. That said, playing this campaign at the perspective of the nomads is difficult as it should be historically. Paul's strategy is very historical as the Chinese would suffer when they venture into the steppes and get harassed by light horsemen. Reminds me of the Tumu Crisis where 20k Mongols defeated 500k Chinese. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tumu_Crisis.

Do not be ashamed to lower the difficulty level if required in any campaign. But that only works when you start a new camapaign.