CSI Sweep: Germany West 41-43

Moderators: Order of Battle Moderators, The Artistocrats

bru888
Order of Battle Moderator
Order of Battle Moderator
Posts: 2836
Joined: Sun Jan 10, 2016 5:39 pm

CSI Sweep: Germany West 41-43

Post by bru888 » Fri Feb 15, 2019 12:33 am

By invitation from Erik.

I know that some message blurbs are left intentionally longer than the space allowed (in hopes of some future enhancement like a scroll bar) but this campaign tree junction is crucial so it might be best to eliminate the paragraph break here so as to make clear that there are three choices for invading Crete: Maleme, Iraklio, or Rethimnon:

Screenshot 1.jpg
Screenshot 1.jpg (175.64 KiB) Viewed 657 times
- Bru

bru888
Order of Battle Moderator
Order of Battle Moderator
Posts: 2836
Joined: Sun Jan 10, 2016 5:39 pm

Re: CSI Sweep: Germany West 41-43

Post by bru888 » Fri Feb 15, 2019 12:48 am

For the same reason, you may want to insert an event at each of these campaign tree junctions - to highlight a choice to be made:

Screenshot 2.jpg
Screenshot 2.jpg (165.56 KiB) Viewed 652 times
Screenshot 3.jpg
Screenshot 3.jpg (189.87 KiB) Viewed 652 times
- Bru

bru888
Order of Battle Moderator
Order of Battle Moderator
Posts: 2836
Joined: Sun Jan 10, 2016 5:39 pm

Re: CSI Sweep: Germany West 41-43

Post by bru888 » Fri Feb 15, 2019 1:37 am

Belgrade v. 1.0

My only fear for this trigger is the stipulation of "Objectives must be cleared of enemy units in a 2-hex radius" of Belgrade. This is defined as two primary VP's on either side of Belgrade. Considering how many hexes there are within a 2-hex radius of those points, it is entirely possible that a Yugoslav unit or two may still be within that radius when both VP's are taken. Given the Capture VP Event, that means, in order to win this objective, those Yugoslav units would need to be removed and ANOTHER VP be captured someplace else (the Belgrade VP's being already captured). This is one time that perhaps Any Event would be a better choice.

Screenshot 4.jpg
Screenshot 4.jpg (231.61 KiB) Viewed 647 times
- Bru

bru888
Order of Battle Moderator
Order of Battle Moderator
Posts: 2836
Joined: Sun Jan 10, 2016 5:39 pm

Re: CSI Sweep: Germany West 41-43

Post by bru888 » Fri Feb 15, 2019 1:45 am

Belgrade v. 1.0

Herr Generalfeldmarschall needs to get his story straight! He says to escort "at least one of these Romanian Officers to Belgrade" but the trigger requires both:

Screenshot 5.jpg
Screenshot 5.jpg (47.82 KiB) Viewed 644 times
Screenshot 6.jpg
Screenshot 6.jpg (218.51 KiB) Viewed 644 times
Screenshot 7.jpg
Screenshot 7.jpg (216.85 KiB) Viewed 644 times

Just a note on the bridge blowing: In every case, it's not just a matter of the Axis approaching the bridge, but a Yugoslav unit must be standing on the bridge; i.e., end its turn on the hex. Only one bridge has a defender to start the scenario and Yugoslav units are either Static Defense, Local Defense, or Defend Hex. So, they may move around a bit but not much. One may wander onto a bridge during the course of the scenario but not very often, I would say, and probably not just in time to be there when the Axis approaches. Why require a Yugoslav unit to be on location and not either assign one at each bridge or direct a unit to go there?

One last thing. I'll probably not mention this again so as to be not repetitive but without at least one objective for the AI to complete, even if it's preventing the human player from achieving his objectives, Defeat is technically not possible. The worst outcome will be Draw:

Image0183.jpg
Image0183.jpg (71.16 KiB) Viewed 639 times
- Bru

bru888
Order of Battle Moderator
Order of Battle Moderator
Posts: 2836
Joined: Sun Jan 10, 2016 5:39 pm

Re: CSI Sweep: Germany West 41-43

Post by bru888 » Fri Feb 15, 2019 2:13 am

Metaxas Line v. 1.0

These "orphaned" bunkers and fortress (no AI team) will not fight:

Screenshot 9.jpg
Screenshot 9.jpg (691.41 KiB) Viewed 637 times

Neither will these AA guns and artillery:

Screenshot 10.jpg
Screenshot 10.jpg (318.34 KiB) Viewed 635 times

I missed this also-orphaned infantry unit in the previous screenshot (which I cannot edit, which in turn explains why I must make so many posts):

Screenshot 11.jpg
Screenshot 11.jpg (319.83 KiB) Viewed 634 times

And this one (sorry, my eyes are tired tonight). They never will fix this forum regarding editing multiple screenshots, will they?

Screenshot 12.jpg
Screenshot 12.jpg (320.76 KiB) Viewed 632 times

So, to avoid appearing (even more) ridiculous, I will merely tell you that there is one more orphaned unit, a 75mm Bofors M1929, which is situated just south of the central bunker.
- Bru

bru888
Order of Battle Moderator
Order of Battle Moderator
Posts: 2836
Joined: Sun Jan 10, 2016 5:39 pm

Re: CSI Sweep: Germany West 41-43

Post by bru888 » Fri Feb 15, 2019 2:39 am

Metaxas Line v. 1.0

"No Greeks within two hexes" of Thessalonika is the requirement but this is not mentioned in the mission description:

Screenshot 11.jpg
Screenshot 11.jpg (220.91 KiB) Viewed 628 times
- Bru

bru888
Order of Battle Moderator
Order of Battle Moderator
Posts: 2836
Joined: Sun Jan 10, 2016 5:39 pm

Re: CSI Sweep: Germany West 41-43

Post by bru888 » Fri Feb 15, 2019 2:48 am

Metaxas Line v. 1.0

I believe this trigger to be faulty because it does not point to any Target Hex or Target Unit. In addition, it would require NO Axis units to be within 3 hexes of a certain hex or unit? That seems counterintuitive.

Screenshot 12.jpg
Screenshot 12.jpg (213.2 KiB) Viewed 627 times

Also, the same comments apply about bridge-blowing; see above.
- Bru

bru888
Order of Battle Moderator
Order of Battle Moderator
Posts: 2836
Joined: Sun Jan 10, 2016 5:39 pm

Re: CSI Sweep: Germany West 41-43

Post by bru888 » Fri Feb 15, 2019 3:04 am

Iraklio v. 1.0

This is interesting; we were just talking about this in another thread. Erik must own Heroes of Normandie, which unlocks this Zundapp Motorcycle. I don't, and therefore I could not use it in a scenario which I am designing. However, I see it here in Erik's scenario and I can indeed access it and move it.

Screenshot 13.jpg
Screenshot 13.jpg (75.29 KiB) Viewed 623 times
Screenshot 15.jpg
Screenshot 15.jpg (158.56 KiB) Viewed 623 times

So Kondi, I was wrong in what I said on this topic in your mod thread.
- Bru

bru888
Order of Battle Moderator
Order of Battle Moderator
Posts: 2836
Joined: Sun Jan 10, 2016 5:39 pm

Re: CSI Sweep: Germany West 41-43

Post by bru888 » Fri Feb 15, 2019 3:18 am

Iraklio v. 1.0

This seems strange. To activate the Capture Timbaki supply base objective, the Axis must be in possession of Iraklio and the Road to Rethimnon, which makes sense, but also this third spot way off in the hinterland?

Screenshot 17.jpg
Screenshot 17.jpg (422.55 KiB) Viewed 615 times

Hmmm. I think I know what is supposed to happen. There is another objective to be activated, Capture road to Rethimnon. That one requires the Axis to be in Iraklio and Buttercup Airfield. Then, when the Axis takes the Road to Rethimnon, that is supposed to activate the Capture Timbaki supply base objective. I bet the wayward Target Hex above is supposed to be Buttercup Airfield.
- Bru

bru888
Order of Battle Moderator
Order of Battle Moderator
Posts: 2836
Joined: Sun Jan 10, 2016 5:39 pm

Re: CSI Sweep: Germany West 41-43

Post by bru888 » Fri Feb 15, 2019 3:34 am

Iraklio v. 1.0

I believe this trigger to be faulty because it does not specify an alliance:

Screenshot 18.jpg
Screenshot 18.jpg (231.63 KiB) Viewed 611 times

Maybe not, if only British ships were in the scenario, but there are two Italian destroyers in there and they will count.
- Bru

bru888
Order of Battle Moderator
Order of Battle Moderator
Posts: 2836
Joined: Sun Jan 10, 2016 5:39 pm

Re: CSI Sweep: Germany West 41-43

Post by bru888 » Fri Feb 15, 2019 3:48 am

Iraklio v. 1.0

Australian Cretan Partisans? (All others are authentic Greeks).

Screenshot 19.jpg
Screenshot 19.jpg (201.98 KiB) Viewed 608 times

Hmmm. Spoke too soon. Greek-Chinese Cretan Partisans?

Screenshot 20.jpg
Screenshot 20.jpg (203.81 KiB) Viewed 606 times
Screenshot 21.jpg
Screenshot 21.jpg (204.97 KiB) Viewed 606 times
- Bru

bru888
Order of Battle Moderator
Order of Battle Moderator
Posts: 2836
Joined: Sun Jan 10, 2016 5:39 pm

Re: CSI Sweep: Germany West 41-43

Post by bru888 » Fri Feb 15, 2019 4:12 am

Iraklio v. 1.0

Just checking on this one, because it's stuck in the middle of the Cretan Partisans batch. Intentional?

Screenshot 22.jpg
Screenshot 22.jpg (214.21 KiB) Viewed 605 times

Also questioning this as a precaution. Layton-1 spawns and heads the group to Ay.Nicholas port. Layton-2 says, "If there is no British land unit in Ay.Nicholas at Turn Start (which will immediately be true), then head the Layton group toward Buttercup Airfield. Intentional, and will it work as designed?

Screenshot 23.jpg
Screenshot 23.jpg (211.96 KiB) Viewed 605 times

To be continued . . .
- Bru

bru888
Order of Battle Moderator
Order of Battle Moderator
Posts: 2836
Joined: Sun Jan 10, 2016 5:39 pm

Re: CSI Sweep: Germany West 41-43

Post by bru888 » Sat Feb 16, 2019 12:11 am

Maleme v. 1.0

This mission description is the same as the one above it:

Screenshot 1.jpg
Screenshot 1.jpg (198.26 KiB) Viewed 557 times

If the Allies or British are not specified here, the Italian destroyers will count toward this objective:

Screenshot 2.jpg
Screenshot 2.jpg (596.23 KiB) Viewed 557 times

Same thing here - German planes will be included. Plus, the trigger specifies 3 enemy planes to be destroyed but there appears to be only two in the scenario:

Screenshot 4.jpg
Screenshot 4.jpg (596.04 KiB) Viewed 557 times

This is another situation where not specifying the Alliance or Nation may have unintended consequences; the Kriegsmarine coastal guns which are spawned when British guns are destroyed will be included in this count:

Screenshot 5.jpg
Screenshot 5.jpg (221.33 KiB) Viewed 557 times

For these three sets of triggers, the Turn does not match what is indicated in the trigger label:

Screenshot 6.jpg
Screenshot 6.jpg (224.85 KiB) Viewed 557 times
Screenshot 7.jpg
Screenshot 7.jpg (219.83 KiB) Viewed 557 times
Screenshot 8.jpg
Screenshot 8.jpg (218.12 KiB) Viewed 557 times

Once again, no Alliance or Nation selected means remaining German planes will be included in this count:

Screenshot 10.jpg
Screenshot 10.jpg (592.72 KiB) Viewed 557 times
- Bru

bru888
Order of Battle Moderator
Order of Battle Moderator
Posts: 2836
Joined: Sun Jan 10, 2016 5:39 pm

Re: CSI Sweep: Germany West 41-43

Post by bru888 » Sat Feb 16, 2019 12:50 am

Rethimnon v. 1.0

I don't see a photo with this file name in the scenario folder:

Screenshot 2.jpg
Screenshot 2.jpg (235.43 KiB) Viewed 555 times

See comments above as to why it might be advisable to specify Alliance or Nation for these Trigger Conditions:

Screenshot 6.jpg
Screenshot 6.jpg (441.4 KiB) Viewed 555 times
Screenshot 5.jpg
Screenshot 5.jpg (440.35 KiB) Viewed 555 times
Screenshot 8.jpg
Screenshot 8.jpg (405.36 KiB) Viewed 555 times
- Bru

bru888
Order of Battle Moderator
Order of Battle Moderator
Posts: 2836
Joined: Sun Jan 10, 2016 5:39 pm

Re: CSI Sweep: Germany West 41-43

Post by bru888 » Sat Feb 16, 2019 1:47 am

Syracuse v. 1.0

There's a logic flaw with this Italian survival victory condition. With the first combat, its trigger fires and awards the objective. The scenario is over in Turn 1:

Screenshot 3.jpg
Screenshot 3.jpg (510.44 KiB) Viewed 549 times
Screenshot 4.jpg
Screenshot 4.jpg (560.36 KiB) Viewed 549 times
Screenshot 5.jpg
Screenshot 5.jpg (507.82 KiB) Viewed 549 times

That's because this trigger needs to be set for Turn Start, Check Turn, Scenario turn limit (which is reasonable because the scenario only has 16 turns in it):

Screenshot 6.jpg
Screenshot 6.jpg (206.11 KiB) Viewed 549 times

These secondary objectives to hold spots for "x" turns (specify? 5 turns?) are not being serviced properly by their triggers. Notice all of them are already achieved in Turn 1 as shown above. That's because you have the sign backwards; "<" should be ">" if you do indeed want the objectives held for at least 5 turns:

Screenshot 7.jpg
Screenshot 7.jpg (185.04 KiB) Viewed 549 times
Screenshot 9.jpg
Screenshot 9.jpg (220.99 KiB) Viewed 549 times

Notice, by the way, that you have a fourth trigger for Augusta but that's not one of the objectives (which is just as well because Augusta is initially held by the British).

These two triggers say Turn 12 but are set for Turn 10:

Screenshot 10.jpg
Screenshot 10.jpg (200.41 KiB) Viewed 549 times
Screenshot 11.jpg
Screenshot 11.jpg (570.31 KiB) Viewed 549 times
- Bru

GabeKnight
Brigadier-General - Elite Grenadier
Brigadier-General - Elite Grenadier
Posts: 2218
Joined: Mon Nov 27, 2017 10:24 pm

Re: CSI Sweep: Germany West 41-43

Post by GabeKnight » Sat Feb 16, 2019 2:03 am

bru888 wrote:
Fri Feb 15, 2019 2:13 am
They never will fix this forum regarding editing multiple screenshots, will they?
Sure they will. With the next forum update probably ... in one or two years... :?
bru888 wrote:
Fri Feb 15, 2019 3:04 am
[...] Erik must own Heroes of Normandie, which unlocks this Zundapp Motorcycle. I don't, and therefore I could not use it in a scenario which I am designing. However, I see it here in Erik's scenario and I can indeed access it and move it.
I think I do remember Erik mentioning that he actually does not have the "Heroes of Whatever" game (his words :wink: ). The Zundapp could have been inserted into the scen before the "bonus" units were locked in the editor. Those units (2cm FlaK, Austr. commandos) still exist in the older scens.

And as always, thanks a bunch for doing the CSI work on Eriks campaigns, Bruce! :)

bru888
Order of Battle Moderator
Order of Battle Moderator
Posts: 2836
Joined: Sun Jan 10, 2016 5:39 pm

Re: CSI Sweep: Germany West 41-43

Post by bru888 » Sat Feb 16, 2019 2:34 am

Etna Line North v. 1.0

Again, if you want to have the player hold onto these points for . . . 6 turns (specify?), then you need to flip the "<" to ">" (because, as it is, these objectives are achieved immediately) AND they should be activated at Turn Start, not Capture VP event:

Screenshot 1.jpg
Screenshot 1.jpg (164.09 KiB) Viewed 539 times
Screenshot 2.jpg
Screenshot 2.jpg (219.96 KiB) Viewed 539 times

I notice that you are awarding specialisation points, income, and command points to the Waffen SS which is part of the core but, in this scenario, that faction is listed as neutral:

Screenshot 3.jpg
Screenshot 3.jpg (194.4 KiB) Viewed 539 times

I also noticed that you give 200 resource points to the Waffen SS for San Fratello, 150 RPs for Capri Leone, and none for Troina. Intentional?

I don't see photos with these file names in the scenario folder:

Screenshot 4.jpg
Screenshot 4.jpg (226.22 KiB) Viewed 539 times
Screenshot 5.jpg
Screenshot 5.jpg (210.38 KiB) Viewed 539 times
- Bru

bru888
Order of Battle Moderator
Order of Battle Moderator
Posts: 2836
Joined: Sun Jan 10, 2016 5:39 pm

Re: CSI Sweep: Germany West 41-43

Post by bru888 » Sat Feb 16, 2019 2:39 am

GabeKnight wrote:
Sat Feb 16, 2019 2:03 am
And as always, thanks a bunch for doing the CSI work on Eriks campaigns, Bruce! :)
It's my pleasure. It's not all altruistic on my part; I want to help him so that he can produce more good stuff and I can grab it. I have an eerie feeling about this game and this situation . . . something along the lines of, Erik's work is better than official DLC, certainly more frequently and assiduously maintained, and it's free . . . so, why should it be allowed to continue to overshadow the pay-for-play DLC?
- Bru

bru888
Order of Battle Moderator
Order of Battle Moderator
Posts: 2836
Joined: Sun Jan 10, 2016 5:39 pm

Re: CSI Sweep: Germany West 41-43

Post by bru888 » Sat Feb 16, 2019 3:00 am

Etna Line South v. 1.0

If dim memory serves, a faction that is named in the Scenario Editor as part of the core should appear in every component scenario, else the dreaded "Strat Map" crash will occur. I just noticed that Waffen SS is missing here (and from Syracuse as well, so far):

Screenshot 6.jpg
Screenshot 6.jpg (186.72 KiB) Viewed 533 times

Now, you had the Waffen SS active in Belgrade, which makes sense, but you did not activate them for Greece, Crete, and most of Italy (they are active in SalernoC). I'm not sure how this works; whether just keeping that faction neutral will prevent them from being used but still be alright for scenario operation. Yet without the faction included at all in the scenario, if the player has core Waffen SS units from Belgrade, the campaign may crash at Syracuse and again here in Etna Line South because it will not know what to do about carrying those Waffen SS units forward.

Here are a few more red flags: Italy is missing from SalernoL and SalernoC; the Waffen SS is again missing from Catanzaro and Taranto; and they're both missing from Volturno! You know more about these things than I do, but I recall this situation creating an issue with one or two of your other campaigns and the solution was to insert all core factions in every scenario in the campaign, regardless of whether they are used or not.

There's another interesting wrinkle here. When the Italians change sides with Catanzaro and Taranto, what happens to any Italian core units acquired up until that point? Do they merely join the other side as AI core units?
- Bru

bru888
Order of Battle Moderator
Order of Battle Moderator
Posts: 2836
Joined: Sun Jan 10, 2016 5:39 pm

Re: CSI Sweep: Germany West 41-43

Post by bru888 » Sat Feb 16, 2019 3:39 am

Etna Line South v. 1.0

The objectives for this scenario need editing. Let's start with the primary objectives:

Screenshot 1a.jpg
Screenshot 1a.jpg (197.88 KiB) Viewed 522 times

These are "hold" objectives and you don't say that it's okay to lose them and take them back by the end of the scenario. In this situation, as you know, "hold" objectives are usually evaluated after a certain amount of turns, or at scenario-end. OR, they are marked as achieved to begin with, only to be failed if the victory points are lost.

That means these triggers are wrong. As soon as ANY victory point is taken, even a secondary VP, then these triggers will fire and award the objectives for holding Maletto, Randazzo, and Taormina immediately. Sure, they could be subsequently lost and retaken the way you have it here, but I don't think that's what you intended.

Screenshot 2.jpg
Screenshot 2.jpg (215.49 KiB) Viewed 522 times

If your intention is that they should never be lost, then you probably should do it this way:

Screenshot 3.jpg
Screenshot 3.jpg (192.95 KiB) Viewed 522 times
Screenshot 4.jpg
Screenshot 4.jpg (216.9 KiB) Viewed 522 times

Of course, what keeps the player from winning immediately is that the last objective, "Hold at least 2 primary objectives," is not evaluated until scenario-end.
- Bru

Post Reply

Return to “Order of Battle : World War II - Scenario Design”