Admiral's Alternate Arsenal (3A) V0.5 Released!

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alex1917
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Re: Admiral's Alternate Arsenal (3A) V0.5 Released!

Post by alex1917 » Fri Oct 12, 2018 8:21 pm

good job Admiral :wink: we will wait for soon updates) thank you for your hard work

Admiral_Horthy
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Re: Admiral's Alternate Arsenal (3A) V0.5 Released!

Post by Admiral_Horthy » Fri Oct 12, 2018 8:33 pm

I wonder if someone has tried the NKVD specific infantries... :mrgreen:

terminator
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Re: Admiral's Alternate Arsenal (3A) V0.5 Released!

Post by terminator » Sat Oct 13, 2018 1:03 pm

Admiral_Horthy wrote:
Fri Oct 12, 2018 8:33 pm
I wonder if someone has tried the NKVD specific infantries... :mrgreen:
NKVD = Conscripts ?

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Re: Admiral's Alternate Arsenal (3A) V0.5 Released!

Post by Admiral_Horthy » Sat Oct 13, 2018 2:03 pm

Nooo) Shtrafbat.. The penal unit )) There's a police unit as well (also used to machinegun the retreaters)

But yes I changed the conscript unit too

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Re: Admiral's Alternate Arsenal (3A) V0.5 Released!

Post by Admiral_Horthy » Thu Oct 18, 2018 9:42 pm

Some WIP for you
Attachments
Cycles.jpg
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BA-6ZhD.jpg
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14_Dai.jpg
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Admiral_Horthy
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Re: Admiral's Alternate Arsenal (3A) V0.5 Released!

Post by Admiral_Horthy » Thu Oct 18, 2018 11:03 pm

Question to you...

I have no idea so far what movement should be added to these. Foot is out of the question but infantry moves very fast on road, so they rarely appear as an available movement...
Screenshot 1.jpg
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terminator
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Re: Admiral's Alternate Arsenal (3A) V0.5 Released!

Post by terminator » Fri Oct 19, 2018 4:25 am

What it looks like when the cyclists attack ?

Horst
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Re: Admiral's Alternate Arsenal (3A) V0.5 Released!

Post by Horst » Fri Oct 19, 2018 11:37 am

Speed: bicyclists are on average faster (12 km/7.5 mi per h) than mounted troops on trotting horses (10 km/6 mi per h), but rather only on roads.

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Re: Admiral's Alternate Arsenal (3A) V0.5 Released!

Post by Admiral_Horthy » Fri Oct 19, 2018 2:51 pm

terminator wrote:
Fri Oct 19, 2018 4:25 am
What it looks like when the cyclists attack ?
They do not. Bikes do not fight they are just means of transport like a truck. Unfortunately they have no animation - unless they will be incorporated into the game by the devs

Admiral_Horthy
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Re: Admiral's Alternate Arsenal (3A) V0.5 Released!

Post by Admiral_Horthy » Fri Oct 19, 2018 3:03 pm

Horst wrote:
Fri Oct 19, 2018 11:37 am
Speed: bicyclists are on average faster (12 km/7.5 mi per h) than mounted troops on trotting horses (10 km/6 mi per h), but rather only on roads.


Biked definitely need wheel movement... But a wheel provides just a little more over foot here.. My problem is that infantry gains to much on a road. 6 hex vs the wheeled movement of a truck 8 hex. What would be a marching speed for infantry... 3-4km/h?

Horst
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Re: Admiral's Alternate Arsenal (3A) V0.5 Released!

Post by Horst » Fri Oct 19, 2018 3:18 pm

Foot troops: 5 km/3 mi per h
Foot troops (small units): 6 km/3.5 mi per h
Clearly many factors like terrain condition, weather and the like can modify these speeds. A cross-country or mountainous march can reduce this by 2-3 km per hour.

Yep, it's not always that easy with all the chassis types. I see the speeds rather as tactical speeds which can be faster or slower than the marching or road speeds. You need to experiment what works best as type. I already had to add seven additional chassis-types to make anything look better.

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Re: Admiral's Alternate Arsenal (3A) V0.5 Released!

Post by Admiral_Horthy » Fri Oct 19, 2018 5:26 pm

Seven new chassis? Holy.. cow.

What I can think more of, all-terrain wheel (8 wheeled stuff, like modern BTR) and perhaps air cushion as extra chassis... but seven? :D

Road factor is high for infantry I think. if any should be necessary. For a 6 hex distance move on road it would be much convenient on transport :D What we cannot simulate is fatigue.. most transport like horse, wagon, sled etc were taken because of fatigue not speed.

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Re: Admiral's Alternate Arsenal (3A) V0.5 Released!

Post by terminator » Fri Oct 19, 2018 7:22 pm

Japanese Army needs this unit for the "Bicycle Blitzkrieg" :

Imperial_Japanese_Army_bicycle_blitzkrieg.jpg
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Fabio3110
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Re: Admiral's Alternate Arsenal (3A) V0.5 Released!

Post by Fabio3110 » Sun Oct 21, 2018 10:31 am

Admiral_Horthy wrote:
Thu Oct 11, 2018 9:20 pm
and make scenarios :P
You ask, i deliver :)
I made a scenario with your mod about the Hungarian-Slovak "Little War".
Be sure to check it out if you can: viewtopic.php?f=374&t=88214

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Re: Admiral's Alternate Arsenal (3A) V0.5 Released!

Post by GabeKnight » Thu Nov 01, 2018 7:17 pm

I've just played Fabio's "Little War" scen, together with the "Convoy Bombers, 1942", "Don kanyar, 1942 December" and "Mountain Skirmish, 1941" WIP-scens that came with your A³-mod and so far I can tell you, that all the units used within worked flawlessly.

I did not check the unit's stats against vanilla (balance), but there were no obvious errors or implausible values that I could see.

The effects also worked just fine. Some were a bit lengthy, but working as intended I suppose.

Only the numerous <placeholder icons> were a bit annoying, especially for me: I can't tell the units apart by name only - not knowing the WWII units by heart like many others here.

But from what I could see, you did a fantastic job with the new units overall!!! 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) :D

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Re: Admiral's Alternate Arsenal (3A) V0.5 Released!

Post by Admiral_Horthy » Thu Nov 01, 2018 8:09 pm

Thanks Gabe. Happy results give the drive and inspiration for more.

Next version won't come out till -
- Release of Endsieg, I don't want to do stuff which is already done, and report issues which were fixed. Also I would give inspiration what to do next.
- Until all units getting unit pictures. Now it annoys me even, since there are unique names given (for compatibility with Unit Navigator)
- Need to test the new movement model - Schneckenkrieg - that removes infantry road factor, and introduces slow moving transports like bikes, sled, wagon, cart, pack horses, cavalry transport and of course row boat.**

**Here I could give my right leg for a swimmer, biker and boat rowing animation... :roll:

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Re: Admiral's Alternate Arsenal (3A) V0.5 Released!

Post by Admiral_Horthy » Thu Nov 08, 2018 6:50 am

Slow transports... two more coming.
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Horst
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Re: Admiral's Alternate Arsenal (3A) V0.5 Released!

Post by Horst » Thu Nov 08, 2018 7:38 pm

Who wants to still fight with such pretty transports?
I recommend playing huge scenario maps with less fighting and more moving! :)

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Re: Admiral's Alternate Arsenal (3A) V0.5 Released!

Post by Admiral_Horthy » Fri Nov 09, 2018 1:48 pm

Well I got the irony :P :lol: Wagon is primarily for heavy infantry for an extra hex of speed (on clear). Bike means a lot of extra hexes on road. Cavalry transport will substitute for "riding infantry" in units which do not fight mounted. Distinguished will be Hussars, Uhlans, Cossacks which do. They already have the charge trait (~banzai). Last will be a pack horse which handles mountain guns so they can move more realistically. Any extra will be for scenery units (aka cargo truck).

Seriously, for an OOB: World War I they will be useful :P :P :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen:

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Re: Admiral's Alternate Arsenal (3A) V0.5 Released!

Post by Admiral_Horthy » Sat Nov 10, 2018 1:31 pm

Horse drawn units in the WW2 (*excerpt)
***

Speed of Horse drawn trains

Expected speed and daily range of field units
Speed (Km/h) Range per day (Km)
Infantry 4 15-20
Combat patrol 5 25-30
Cavalry 8 40-50
Cavalry patrol 10 100
Bicycles 10-12 60-80
Trucks 10-12 100-120
Horse-drawn carriage 6-8 40-50

***

Germany

No matter Germany put heavy effort in the motorization of a major part of it's combat units the resources for it's logistical structure was insufficient. According to the studies of Field Marshal Dr. Ferenc Vegh,
"No matter how developed was the German industry it was unable to supply the growing military machine. The auto industry was not capable to produce enough vehicles for a full motorization in the entire army. Also there was a lack of highly trained technical personnel among the population that prevented the motorization and mechanization of the military forces."
Therefore the army units were partially equipped with horse-drawn field vehicles.
The lack of available fuel alone forced the partial employment of horse-drawn transportation. "The lack of mineral oil reserves did not cover the needs of a motorized army, therefore Germany was unable to create a modern, fully mechanized army. The insufficient mobility was complemented with the mass employment of horses. At the beginning of the war in spite of forced motorization the German armed forces consisted of a multitude of horse-drawn units and masses of infantry besides it's armored and motorized units. With the successes of the mobile armored divisions inspired the German leadership to cease horse transportation. A sharp contradiction was, however that from 1942 the German forces increased the number horse mounted and transported units. The reason was - just like in the case of Poland - the lack of industrial capacity and within the territory of the USSR and Eastern Europe the lack of roads, muddy conditions on the field and forests forced them to do so. Every Infantry Division had several thousands of horses and thousands who taken care of the horses."
Since the speed of foot (rifle) infantry was already low, there was not exceptional to use horse transportation supporting these units. From 1939 the size of the army constantly increased and even the remaining trucks were withdrawn from infantry units to create new motorized divisions. The number of fielded horse carriages and wagons therefore constantly increased throughout the Second World War.
"Germany had entered the war with 514000 horses in 1939. On the 22th of July 1941 at the beginning of the attack on the USSR they had 750000 horse-drawn wagons and artillery pieces. The harsh winter conditions and the consequent lack of care decimated their numbers. During December 1941 and the January of 1942 more than 179000 horses died... the Germans lost 1000 horses per day. Percentage of the losses were 75% due to combat action, 17% due to heart failures from over-stress, 8% from diseases, suffering and starvation. The halt in resupply and the disability to move artillery meant no mobility and sealed the fate of the attackers. Germany fielded 1.100.000 horses in average throughout the entire war. They were used mainly in Infantry Divisions and Horse Artillery units. Also a high number of horses were taken as booty and via confiscations from the occupied areas. As the war progressed from 1941 the number of cavalry units were also increased.
"In 1944, from all the 264 divisions only 42 were mechanized or motorized. The level of motorization was less than 20%. Infantry divisions entered battle on foot, 70% of the transportation was horse-drawn. An 1944 Infantry Division order of battle included 4600 horses, 1400 horse-drawn vehicles, 600 truck and 150 motorcycles... In the entire Second World War Germany lost 2.700.000 horses. The dual structure of transportation remained to the end of the war. All the military experience of Germany proved that despite mechanization the usage of horses was indispensable.."

Soviet Union

Compared to Germany, the Red Army had to supply a force three times larger. Also with the lack of armored half-tracked combat vehicles, even the motorized troops had to be transported by trucks. "Hence, all the supply transportation has been done by 76 horse-transport battalions with 500 horses each. In every Rifle Division were 3000 horses."
The ratio of horse transportation was overwhelming, the usage of truck was extremely rare. In spite of it's size, the Red Army had considerably smaller ratio of supply units in it's structure compared to other contemporary armies. The Soviet armed force had smaller size of supply, support and transportation units altogether. The horses available on soviet territories while extremely rugged were small and strong enough to pull small carts only. "Russian Pan'ye horses were resistant to cold, tough and indefatigable - yet too weak to move large cargoes. A 4ton artillery piece needed six strong horses to be moved effectively. Hence the soviet reduced the sizes of the cargo loads and build lighter carriages." With all that, the Soviet army - including 82 Cavalry Divisions and large numbers of artillery units mostly horse-drawn - owned more than 1 million horses in 1941-42.
In the second part of the war, the number of horses increased to 1.7 to 2 million. To feed all these horses 25.000 tons of forage was not enough. The same time horse losses of front-line troops were 40-70% of their numbers." Even though the severe lack of provisions and serious losses of horses the Red Army did reach Berlin that proves the horse-drawn transportation did perform adequately after all.
*Farkas Zoltan - Hegedus Erno: The history of horse drawn vehicles from Napoleon to the Second World War, Haditechnika 2016/2

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