Movement of ground AA unit blocked by enemy a/c

prattaa · Post by **prattaa** » Sun Jun 30, 2019 11:41 am

I run into this frequently where I would like to move a AA unit to a certain hex that is also occupied by an enemy air unit. I am only allowed to move to an adjacent hex. Is this a bug or is there some hotkey I am missing? I tried ctrl, alt, & shift but it didn't help.

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terminator · Post by **terminator** » Sun Jun 30, 2019 1:57 pm

I made a test( 7.1.8 ), it works for me :

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I don’t remember that happening to me. Maybe a Savegame ?

Erik2 · Post by **Erik2** » Mon Jul 01, 2019 9:08 am

I've seen this for a long time as well. You can only attack the air unit in the hex, not move under it.

terminator · Post by **terminator** » Mon Jul 01, 2019 9:25 am

@prattaa : you seem to be playing a mod ? Which version of the game are you playing ?

7.1.8 of course (easily recognizable graphically)

prattaa · Post by **prattaa** » Tue Jul 02, 2019 9:28 pm

terminator wrote: ↑Mon Jul 01, 2019 9:25 am @prattaa : you seem to be playing a mod ? Which version of the game are you playing ? 7.1.8 of course (easily recognizable graphically)

Original post was with Gabe-Mod but I have encountered this issue in vanilla from the start. Here is an example from stock 7.1.8. I would like to move the 8.8cm unit forward but the hex is blocked and I can only fire. I think the issue is when AA unit is already within range of the target.

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terminator · Post by **terminator** » Wed Jul 03, 2019 4:34 am

prattaa wrote: ↑Tue Jul 02, 2019 9:28 pm I think the issue is when AA unit is already within range of the target.

You're right

(the image of your first post did not show the bug)

Example 1 = impossible to move under the plane :

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Example 2 = impossible to move under the plane but can move beyond the AA unit’s range:

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Example 3 = possible to move under the plane if the target(plane) is placed outside the AA unit's range:

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terminator · Post by **terminator** » Fri Jul 05, 2019 5:33 am

Reported in Bug Database: Bug #4712

bru888 · Post by **bru888** » Fri Jul 05, 2019 1:46 pm

I wonder, though, if this will actually be viewed as a bug. It stands to reason (and game mechanics) that no advantage is gained by moving under the plane before firing at it, since it is already within range. Granted, perhaps there are times when you want to move and fire for tactical reasons - advancing a unit to a better position - and that hex with the plane in it would be ideal. Still, IRL an AA-gun would not pack up and move directly under an enemy plane before firing if they could do so with the same effect from its current position. Also, to my knowledge, no unit in this game can move into an enemy hex (ground or air) before clearing it of said enemy.

So I would not be surprised to see this bug report go unaddressed.

terminator · Post by **terminator** » Fri Jul 05, 2019 2:22 pm

bru888 wrote: ↑Fri Jul 05, 2019 1:46 pm I wonder, though, if this will actually be viewed as a bug. It stands to reason (and game mechanics) that no advantage is gained by moving under the plane before firing at it, since it is already within range. Granted, perhaps there are times when you want to move and fire for tactical reasons - advancing a unit to a better position - and that hex with the plane in it would be ideal. Still, IRL an AA-gun would not pack up and move directly under an enemy plane before firing if they could do so with the same effect from its current position. Also, to my knowledge, no unit in this game can move into an enemy hex (ground or air) before clearing it of said enemy.

So I would not be surprised to see this bug report go unaddressed.

I consider that something can be considered a bug from the moment when two different people think the same (me and prattaa). Developers will always have the last word.

I’m not sure I understood the meaning of your last phrase.
Why an artillery unit can move under an enemy plane and fire (on the soviet truck) ?

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terminator · Post by **terminator** » Fri Jul 05, 2019 2:29 pm

The problem with the 88 AA is that after shooting, the 88 AA can not move.

Before shooting :

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After shooting :

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terminator · Post by **terminator** » Fri Jul 05, 2019 2:34 pm

Another example :

Before moving :

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After moving :

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bru888 · Post by **bru888** » Fri Jul 05, 2019 2:50 pm

terminator wrote: ↑Fri Jul 05, 2019 2:22 pm I’m not sure I understood the meaning of your last phrase.
Why an artillery unit can move under an enemy plane and fire (on the soviet truck) ?

Well, two potential combatants, that is. They cannot occupy the same hex until after battle and one of them has retreated or been eliminated. The artillery can move under the plane because no combat is involved.

I see your argument, though, and if you and prattaa agree, then it MUST be a bug!

Still, I wouldn't be disappointed if I were you to not see this addressed. Maybe, but it seems like a minor nuance (to me, NOT to you and prattaa!) and the developer may feel the same way in that overturning the "no two combatants in one hex" rule just for AA-guns may be a substantial undertaking.

terminator · Post by **terminator** » Fri Jul 05, 2019 3:21 pm

Just one last clarification: I had never noticed this bug before. If prattaa hadn’t noticed, I don’t think I would have noticed. It still remains for me a minor bug.

DeathMutant · Post by **DeathMutant** » Fri Jul 05, 2019 8:42 pm

I thought there was a hotkey that allowed you to do this: Move an AA unit underneath an aircraft before firing at it? I believe that I just did this in Endseig with a Ctrl-click or something similar. Or, then again, that could just be wishful thinking. . .

terminator · Post by **terminator** » Fri Jul 05, 2019 9:07 pm

DeathMutant wrote: ↑Fri Jul 05, 2019 8:42 pm I thought there was a hotkey that allowed you to do this: Move an AA unit underneath an aircraft before firing at it? I believe that I just did this in Endseig with a Ctrl-click or something similar. Or, then again, that could just be wishful thinking. . .

What is this secret combination

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prattaa · Post by **prattaa** » Fri Jul 05, 2019 11:46 pm

I could swear that I tried that. Thanks terminator for your dogged persistence in this matter. Unlike the ctrl swap units command this one does not get any special attention in the loading screen tips.

GabeKnight · Post by **GabeKnight** » Sun Aug 18, 2019 6:42 pm

DeathMutant wrote: ↑Fri Jul 05, 2019 8:42 pm I thought there was a hotkey that allowed you to do this: Move an AA unit underneath an aircraft before firing at it? I believe that I just did this in Endseig with a Ctrl-click or something similar. Or, then again, that could just be wishful thinking. . .

Yeah, baby, works like this. I've had the same problem before and was furious about it each time it happened. Simple solution - Thanks Mr. Mutant and terminator!

bru888 · Post by **bru888** » Sun Aug 18, 2019 10:08 pm

Someday, I am going to need this maneuver - victory or defeat will depend on this one move - and I am going to . . . forget all about this and lose! Just kidding, I hope. Another undocumented feature found by trial and error and shared in the forum, so thanks to all here.

GabeKnight · Post by **GabeKnight** » Mon Aug 19, 2019 1:10 pm

Well, victory of defeat will probably not be decided by this "maneuver", but as ground AA units are excellent at finishing off air units (you know how difficulty it can be to shoot down a 1-3HP plane...), it could mean that I won't complete some sec. objective (with a turn limit) in time, or, in case of Eriks stuff, it would mean that some plane can return to base to (fully) repair again...

prattaa · Post by **prattaa** » Fri Aug 23, 2019 8:44 pm

Along the same lines here is another situation where the controls are not clear.

I wanted the Mosquito fighter-bomber to attack the SP artillery under the Bf 110 but all I could manage was to attack the 110. Ctrl + left click still attacked the 110.

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Movement of ground AA unit blocked by enemy a/c

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