Italian Wars Campaign Gameplay

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w_michael
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Re: Italian Wars Campaign Gameplay

Post by w_michael » Mon Apr 30, 2018 6:04 pm

awesum4 wrote:Are all the Fall moves in?
The status is the last column of the Fall 1500 Records sheet.

Waiting for Milan's orders
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w_michael
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Re: Italian Wars Campaign Gameplay

Post by w_michael » Wed May 02, 2018 1:51 am

Fall 1500 Expense Orders
Florence
Repay Loan (9d)
Naples
Borrow 24D from the moneylenders for a period of 2 years.
12D to bride the Florentine army in Florence to disband
12D to bribe the Florentine army in Perugia to disband.
Genoa
Borrow 6 d from money lenders for 1 year
Spend 12 d to disband Florentine Army in Pistolo
Turks
Borrow 24D from the moneylenders for a period of 2 years.
12D to disband the Florentine army in Urbino
12D to disband the Florentine army in Rome

Military Orders
Austria
A1 advance Tyrolia
A2 supports A1 advance to Tyrolia
Papacy
Army 1 - Besiege Genoa
Fleet 1 - Move from Gulf of Naples to Naples
Genoa
Advance Army 3 to Pistolo
Advance Fleet 1 from West Med to Eastern Gulf of Lyon
Florence
A3 Advance Lucca
A1 Support A4 (in Urbino)
A4 Support A1 (in Florence)
A2 Support A5 (in Rome)
A5 Support A2 (in Perugia)
Naples
Army 1 advances from Arezzo to Perugia
Army 3 advances from Sienna to Florence
Fleet 1 advances from Eastern Tyrhennian to the Gulf of Naples
Fleet 2 advances from the Patrimony to Tivoli
Fleet 4 advances from Otranto to Salerno
Venice
Army1 S Army 4 in Cremona
Army2 A Milan
Army3 H Ferrara
Army4 A Cremona
Army5 S Army2 in Milan
Fleet1 S Fleet2 in Upper Adriatic
Fleet2 S Fleet1 in Dalmatia
Turks
Army 1 advances from Spoleto to Rome
Fleet 1 advances from Ancona to Romagna
Fleet 2 Advances from the Western Mediterranean to Western Gulf of Lyon
Fleet 3 Advances from Lower Adriatic to Ancona
Fleet 4 Advances from the Ionian Sea to Lower Adriatic
Milan
Anyway both armies will just support each other
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w_michael
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Re: Italian Wars Campaign Gameplay

Post by w_michael » Wed May 02, 2018 1:53 am

Fall 1500 Combat Map
P&S_Machiavelli_1500FallMoves.jpg
Fall 1500 Movement
P&S_Machiavelli_1500FallMoves.jpg (1.04 MiB) Viewed 985 times
Fall 1500 Battles
4th Battle of Milan
Milan sets up an Open Battle or a Defend Battle. Milan has 1,200 FP and Venice has 1,400 FP. Retreat paths: Venice to Bergamo, Milan to Garrison Milan.
2nd Battle of Cremona
Milan sets up an Open Battle or a Defend Battle. Milan has 1,200 FP and Venice has 1,400 FP. Retreat paths: Venice to Brescia, Milan to Garrison Cremona.

Battle results are due at the end of Wed. May 16th (15 days)
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Pixel
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Re: Italian Wars Campaign Gameplay

Post by Pixel » Wed May 02, 2018 3:12 am

Well played! Why give battle when you can just disband all opposition. Very Machiavellian!
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awesum4
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Re: Italian Wars Campaign Gameplay

Post by awesum4 » Wed May 02, 2018 6:28 am

It is the system. Personally I think the option to borrow so much money distorts the campaign. If we play another I would suggest no moneylendrrs.
But we have used the rules as they currently stand.

w_michael
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Re: Italian Wars Campaign Gameplay

Post by w_michael » Wed May 02, 2018 1:48 pm

awesum4 wrote:It is the system. Personally I think the option to borrow so much money distorts the campaign. If we play another I would suggest no moneylendrrs.
But we have used the rules as they currently stand.
I tend to agree. This is the way the game is supposed to work, but someone always gets shafted this way, and it is difficult to defend against. It does tend to shorten the campaign though.
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TheGrayMouser
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Re: Italian Wars Campaign Gameplay

Post by TheGrayMouser » Wed May 02, 2018 7:44 pm

w_michael wrote:
awesum4 wrote:It is the system. Personally I think the option to borrow so much money distorts the campaign. If we play another I would suggest no moneylendrrs.
But we have used the rules as they currently stand.
I tend to agree. This is the way the game is supposed to work, but someone always gets shafted this way, and it is difficult to defend against. It does tend to shorten the campaign though.
Honestly, it’s the ability to bribe armies so easily ( regardless of the funding) that seems too power full. Also armies that are defeated are available next turn to attack over and over.( No offense to lascars tenacity ;) ). I imagine since results happen at the toll of a die in a board game, it’s tolerable as the campaign progresses. I think I’m in a position of fighting endless battles where winning keeps a status quo, losing means eradication.

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Re: Italian Wars Campaign Gameplay

Post by GDod » Thu May 03, 2018 3:55 am

awesum4 wrote:It is the system. Personally I think the option to borrow so much money distorts the campaign. If we play another I would suggest no moneylendrrs.
But we have used the rules as they currently stand.
The chickens will come home to roost and I imagine quite a few borrowers will go up against the wall...we need to remember it's short term gain but in the scheme of things it's not the best policy! People are banking on retaining their gains!...very unlikely in the long run and... expansion of fleets and armies and ensuring the fleets are at sea with transported armies in the plague month is always the best policy

awesum4
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Re: Italian Wars Campaign Gameplay

Post by awesum4 » Thu May 03, 2018 7:35 am

I have just realized that Florence has also been eliminated as he no longer owns any of his home cities. Bologna was a Papal territory at the beginning of the campaign.

Pixel
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Re: Italian Wars Campaign Gameplay

Post by Pixel » Fri May 04, 2018 2:05 am

Yes this is true. Looks like Naples and Venice are currently the major contenders here. Of course, this may change. Good luck to the all the remaining players. Curious to see how the rest of the campaign plays out.
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TheGrayMouser
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Re: Italian Wars Campaign Gameplay

Post by TheGrayMouser » Sat May 05, 2018 11:39 am

Challenges up Lascar
open battles

passwords:

Milan2
Cremona2

w_michael
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Re: Italian Wars Campaign Gameplay

Post by w_michael » Sun May 06, 2018 4:46 am

The expenditure orders are always contentious. Florence in this campaign is a prime example. The "borrowers" are exposed if they cannot repay their huge loans, as France was, but Florence pays the ultimate price first. Perhaps the Money Lender loan should be capped at 12d instead of 25d. Shenanigans can still happen, but at a reduced rate.

I am also sympathetic to the Milan/Venice unending war. In the original game two armies would always defeat a single army and Milan would be doomed. In this campaign Milan lives to fight on because he wins the battles. Repeated battles are boring, but this is a problem with many campaigns: you fight your neighbours a lot. This is not a tournament where winning a battle knocks another player out of contention. You have to conquer territory to do that (just ask Sienna or Florence).

If I run this campaign again then I would likely reduce the maximum Money Lender loan to 12d, as players are all here to fight battles. I am open to any other constructive suggestions to make the campaign better. I am not locked into playing the campaign as originally written, but it was a reasonable starting point.
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awesum4
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Re: Italian Wars Campaign Gameplay

Post by awesum4 » Sun May 06, 2018 7:40 am

Michael,

My thoughts on changes to improve a very interesting campaign;

1/ eliminate money-lenders, failing that reducing the limit is a good step.

2/ a defeated army that doesn't go into garrison retreats and then must spend 1 turn rebuilding without moving, if it is attacked in that turn it fights at full strength but if it is defeated again it is totally demoralized and disbands.

3/ if an army that is besieging a city is attacked by a relief army and it wins the battle it continues the siege rather than have to start the siege again. In fact there should be a dice roll to see if the besieged city falls at it is demoralized by the failure of the relief army.

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Battles

Post by lascar » Tue May 15, 2018 10:48 pm

It will not be possible for the battles between Milan and Venice to be completed by tomorrow. Gray Mouser hasn't sent a turn since Saturday and he didn't set up the battles until late in the first week.

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Re: Italian Wars Campaign Gameplay

Post by awesum4 » Wed May 16, 2018 6:44 am

Pixel and I are still fighting the battle of Arezzo from the summer turn. Pixel obviously has lots of other things in his life. With 6 turns to go i have lost 12% and he has lost 36% so I cannot see him capturing the province. So there will be no need to adjust the fall situation.

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Re: Italian Wars Campaign Gameplay

Post by awesum4 » Wed May 16, 2018 7:45 am

The battle for Arezzo is over. I lost 15% to 41%. His troops were exhausted from marching almost the entire battlefield to my secure defensive position. When my Landsknechts and Superior Spanish pike charged his Italians they broke almost immediately allowing my pike to then gang up on his good mercenaries. His Swiss made a hard job of beating a single unit of Rodeleros. Our massed arquebus traded units in a forest but some of his broke upon seeing their pike fleeing.

Thanks for the game and your good sportsmanship throughout the campaign Pixel, I hope to cross swords with you again soon.

w_michael
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Re: Italian Wars Campaign Gameplay

Post by w_michael » Thu May 17, 2018 2:23 am

I am moving to a new house tomorrow. Take a few more days to complete the second battle, and I will take another look after the weekend.
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Pixel
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Re: Italian Wars Campaign Gameplay

Post by Pixel » Thu May 17, 2018 7:49 pm

Just to clarify: awesum4 as Naples won the Arezzo battle. Florence was defeated. His post makes it clear if you read all the way through but the second sentence could be confusing.

Good luck to all the remaining players!

Also best of luck with your big move William Michael.
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Re: Italian Wars Campaign Gameplay

Post by w_michael » Mon May 21, 2018 8:38 pm

How goes the battles of Milan and Cremona? How close to a finish are you?
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Re: Italian Wars Campaign Gameplay

Post by lascar » Tue May 22, 2018 10:20 pm

w_michael wrote:How goes the battles of Milan and Cremona? How close to a finish are you?
In term of turns, I would expect up to 10 more.

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