Strategy - First Five Turns

It is 1965 and the US ground war in Vietnam is in full swing. As a US Army commander, wage a counter-insurgency (COIN) war to secure the Ia Drang valley, on the border with Cambodia.
Post Reply
ogre
Corporal - 5 cm Pak 38
Corporal - 5 cm Pak 38
Posts: 30
Joined: Mon Jun 01, 2015 4:13 am

Strategy - First Five Turns

Post by ogre »

The following is some strategy on one way to consistently achieve victories. There are other strategies. In fact, part of the “game” is discovering the strategies. So if you're just starting, I'd advise not to read the strategy below. Give it a go yourself.

But if you find yourself at a loss (figuratively and literally) and think you need some help in getting through those first few turns to a solid build heading into the early mid game, then this post is for you.

This post is also for any veterans who have discovered what works best for them, and want to take a look and see if the strategy herein is similar to what they have done.

I play stock Veteran level, and have never lost a game using this strategy. There have been a few close calls, but the majority of my games are decisive wins. I refined the strategy after maxing out rank, so my no-loss record is based on a daily air strike. I'm not sure how much difference that daily strike (sans rain) really makes. That's not to say winning is necessarily a cake walk. Some games can be a challenge. You still need to play each turn in a smart way; there are many tactical choices a player is going to need to figure out on their own.

Top Level Strategy: Find the quickest route to the left-most villages. This is your primary line of advance in the early game. You must be in a position to manage the left-most villages in the early to mid game, as they are the most likely to be the foundation for NVA bases.

Firebase Strategy: Look for your firebase build hex before you do anything else. Look for a position that is centered within reach of several villages, with emphasis on villages toward map left. Look for midmap or a little bit left of middle, within two Huey hops (less than 24 hexes) of the main base. Look for an intermediate forward base location to serve as a mid hop. You will build this along the way.

Optimal builds: In some instances, you may need to count hexes to identify the optimal location between the mid hop forward base and the firebase objective. The mid hop should be within 12 of the main base. If you can't make 12, look for 10 (within a Huey rain hop). If you can't make 12 or 10, look for a position within 10 of your first forward base. These are rules of thumb. Sometimes you may have to improvise. For example, if your engineer is damaged, you may just build a forward base as soon as you can wherever you can. This may modify where you build your firebase or whether an additional forward base is needed along the way. If you have the PPs to spend, an extra impromptu forward base isn't a bad thing. In some cases it might be strategically or tactically warranted on its own.

Basic Strategy Tip: In general you want to recon the most secure areas and shortest routes first, and use a “roll back” strategy (right to left), or inward/outward relative to established bases. However, in the early few turns, when the threat is low, go as far as Huey fuel takes you, but don't neglect villages along the way. Going long will maximize your H&M potential, with minimal risks. However there is something more important than the extra numerical H&M. An early game long recon that touches the left-most villages delays the triggers for NVA bases. Pushing the first NVA base back a few turns is a big early game payoff with little risk. In some games, it delays the first base indefinitely; never gets built.

PROTECT THE ENGINEERS! Losing the engineer early is bad. Getting a firebase in optimal position is good. Protect the engineer with the GB in the early game, and keep the Cobra at the ready to eliminate any threats. Forget building roads and only chew jungle that is on your route, and only at max engineer range; don't chew consecutive hexes! Leap frog jungle chew at max range. Speed is essential here. One advantage of the chew is it will sometimes reveal a hex where a base can be built. Make note. Build a forward base and repair if your engineers get ambushed en route.

Optimize strike opportunities: There is often an optimal order between Cobra, Arty, F4, Infantry. Varies by situation and usually involves waiting for the last part of a turn. The exception being infantry attacks which can gather intel for another strike opportunity.

Turn 1 builds:
Cobra
Huey
The Cobra is perhaps the best bang for buck in the game. It is your primary “reach out and touch someone” in the early game. A nice supplement to the F4, and it works in the rain. The extra Huey is needed to match up with the number of GB/Infantry you start with.

Turn 1 moves:
Build a forward base as far forward as possible on first turn. Huey a GB to the forward base and begin training ARVN. Huey the Infantry to as many first turn village searches as possible. If some are too far away, run them as far as possible for a next turn search.
Move Cobra to the forward base.

Turn 2 builds: None. In general, you want to save your PPs until you get a firebase and build up some additional PPs. Running out of PPs early is bad, as you need them to clear terrain, build forward bases, and heal/repair units. Save those PPs early!

Turn 2 moves:
Execute the second turn training with GB, and then Huey the GB to a position that can cover the engineer's path; you don't want engineers moving blind. If that's not possible, look for a position that can cover any Hueys headed for a second turn village search. Perform all village searches you can reach on turn two, with emphasis on villages that would report on activity close to the engineer. Arty, F4, or Cobra any finds.

Note that any first turn “troops on transports” will be able to recon a village, return to chopper, and be transported to another village within the Huey's range for that turn. Use this to extend your second turn reach and third turn recon opportunities. If there is a choice between a closer second- turn village or one more distant, go to the more distant village. Your choppers will be running low after turn two, so catching that closer village on the way back can avoid fuel complications. This is a strategy for the early turns when the threat is low. In general, it's not a good idea to skip a recon en route. Early turns are unique due to fuel issues and low threat.

Turn 3 builds: None.
Turn 3 moves: Things are becoming dynamic at this point, so I'll only cover those things you will likely still be able to do. Huey the GB back to the forward base and finish the ARVN training. Put the ARVN on Ambush (you never know). Run any more searches, and push the engineer forward again. If there are any lulls and you have idle choppers (unlikely, but does happen), move the arty to the forward base. The final early to mid game resting place for arty will either be the mid hop forward base or the firebase.

Turn 4
Try to build your intermediate forward base on this turn.
Huey the GB to the intermediate forward base and start building the next ARVN. On future turns, you will use the GB to cover the engineer's race to build the firebase, just like you used the GB to cover the engineer to this point. Ideally, you want to be able to train another ARVN while jumping the GB forward and back each turn. However, due to the increasing threat picture, it may be necessary to leave the GB in the field and escort the engineer to the firebase build. This is especially true if the path is through jungle. Given the choice between protecting the engineers and building ARVN....protect the engineer!

Turn 5 and beyond
First priority: Get to that optimal Firebase hex and get it built!
Protect the engineers! The threat is increasing. As noted above, you may need to keep the GB in the field to escort the engineers. Keep the Cobra in range for protection, put it on top of the engineer if otherwise economical to do so. You may also consider using infantry for some limited “recon ahead” duties if GB are busy elsewhere or to cover any GB blind spots. Push to build the Firebase.

Once the firebase is built, it becomes your primary hub for consolidation, village searches, and mid game expansion. You may need to keep your engineer there for a few turns to repair choppers that take hits on missions clearing out the closer hub villages. Once you consolidate a bit, use your engineer to establish forward base spokes at appropriate locations off your firebase.

If necessary, leap frog jungle chews to villages deep in the jungle, using the GB as escort. Once these villages have an adjacent LZ, recon to the village becomes relatively easy. No need to trudge infantry through the jungle and constantly resupply them. Just drop and go, the same as with villages in the open. Look for forward base build hexes as you chew along the way. A forward base opportunity on a deep jungle drive is pure gold. The ability to stage deep jungle raids from a forward base into custom built LZs is the proverbial “knife in the heart”.

That's it. Enjoy!

*******August 23 Edit*******

Edit: Here's a color coded end game map showing the strategy.
Errata: The serendipitous "Fire Base" should read "Forward Base".

Image

The blue shows my bases. The first forward base, where the first ARVN is trained. The mid-way base, that serves as the mid hop base between firebase and main base, as well as staging for any villages in the rear areas. The firebase, in optimal position to tackle several villages; in particular the left side ones where NVA bases can prosper.

This game also gives opportunity to show what I call the Engineer's LZ “jungle chew” deep into the jungle. After establishing the firebase, the engineer drove into the jungle, munching along the way, escorted by GB. The green circles show the chews. First to Plei Kla, then to the deep jungle Ya Breng and Plei Wau. The big bonus is the base build hex uncovered during the drive. A perfect place to build a serendipitous forward base (map says Firebase...should read Forward Base...only one Firebase per game). The base made the perfect staging area into the three villages throughout the mid-game into the end game. These bonus build hexes don't always appear, but when they do appear, managing the villages becomes a lot easier.

Rong Dup was the longest route, and took the longest to subdue. At almost max distance from the start, I couldn't touch it early and knew it would become a hot bed of insurrection. Ideally, a late early game forward base spoke off the firebase toward Rong Dup would be in order. However, this is where the choices come into play. I could have built the spoke base and then turned back into the jungle. But that would have wasted too much precious time, allowing those deep jungle villages to get more hostile. The decision was easy because the jungle route uncovered three villages and the Rong Dup route only made it easier for just one village. Jungle route first. Rong Dup did get messy, so I added an additional GB and supported 'em with two Cobras...and yes...air strikes! Cleaned 'em out pretty quick.

As the game progressed, and Rong Dup came under control, the plan for the extra spoke base was scrubbed altogether. I kept the Engineer in the jungle base to re-fuel and repair all the activity running out of that base.

I never got control of Plei Wau, deep in jungle. But once the adjacent LZ was built, it was visited as often as intel became available.

The firebase was positioned well enough to bring the left villages (purple circles) under control by mid game, holding on to the end.
Last edited by ogre on Mon Aug 24, 2015 8:11 pm, edited 3 times in total.
Every Single Soldier
Vietnam ’65 developer
Vietnam ’65 developer
Posts: 1770
Joined: Wed Jan 14, 2015 4:40 pm

Re: Strategy - First Five Turns

Post by Every Single Soldier »

Enough said :shock:

Although, I am not so sure the increase in airstrikes with rank did the balance any favors .....
krompot
Private First Class - Opel Blitz
Private First Class - Opel Blitz
Posts: 3
Joined: Mon Aug 17, 2015 9:26 pm

Re: Strategy - First Five Turns

Post by krompot »

First of all I am super impressed by this game. It doesn't look like much at first blush. but is wonderfully immersive and fun as you dig into it.

I do think I'd like to see airstrikes handled a little differently in the next game and not be tied to rank. It seems like availability should actually decrease with difficulty level. It might be neat if availability were also somewhat variable over the course of a game and not just dependent on weather and rank (i.e. competition from other operations, etc).
Vietnam65 wrote:Enough said :shock:

Although, I am not so sure the increase in airstrikes with rank did the balance any favors .....
Every Single Soldier
Vietnam ’65 developer
Vietnam ’65 developer
Posts: 1770
Joined: Wed Jan 14, 2015 4:40 pm

Re: Strategy - First Five Turns

Post by Every Single Soldier »

Totally agree on the airstrike thing, it just tips the balance the wrong way when you can airstrike every turn :shock:

Will be fixed in the Afghanistan adaption and the following V66

Thanks for the support, appreciate :)
ogre
Corporal - 5 cm Pak 38
Corporal - 5 cm Pak 38
Posts: 30
Joined: Mon Jun 01, 2015 4:13 am

Re: Strategy - First Five Turns

Post by ogre »

Vietnam65 wrote:Totally agree on the airstrike thing, it just tips the balance the wrong way when you can airstrike every turn :shock:
Not so sure the air strike makes that much of a difference. I restarted as 2Lt. Here is end of game two, 2Lt.

Image

But my game one was 53...so I'll keep you posted. I'm a CPT going into game three.
Every Single Soldier
Vietnam ’65 developer
Vietnam ’65 developer
Posts: 1770
Joined: Wed Jan 14, 2015 4:40 pm

Re: Strategy - First Five Turns

Post by Every Single Soldier »

Well, just imagine how much easier it would have been with air strikes :shock:

Have you tried the game with the custom settings cranked up ?
ErissN6
1st Lieutenant - Grenadier
1st Lieutenant - Grenadier
Posts: 790
Joined: Wed Nov 20, 2013 11:34 pm
Location: France

Re: Strategy - First Five Turns

Post by ErissN6 »

Vietnam65 wrote:Have you tried the game with the custom settings cranked up ?
In next patch you should give us an official Elite difficulty, that's for there is not that I finally don't play thougher.
(and please again, just for our statistics, differ our losses ARVN/True-US)
Every Single Soldier
Vietnam ’65 developer
Vietnam ’65 developer
Posts: 1770
Joined: Wed Jan 14, 2015 4:40 pm

Re: Strategy - First Five Turns

Post by Every Single Soldier »

:)
ogre
Corporal - 5 cm Pak 38
Corporal - 5 cm Pak 38
Posts: 30
Joined: Mon Jun 01, 2015 4:13 am

Re: Strategy - First Five Turns

Post by ogre »

Vietnam65 wrote:Well, just imagine how much easier it would have been with air strikes :shock:

Have you tried the game with the custom settings cranked up ?
No, I just play on the vanilla levels. And I"m not saying it's "easy" either. Lots of tactical decisions are required. Not to mention lots of surprises...those RPG ambushes still make me jump. And some "statistical" setbacks...when it takes six strikes on a base to take it out! Or my first four Infantry engagements are lost. H&M dips into the 40s. Not a cake walk.

I really like the map variety. No two games are alike. That really plays well with the "top level" strategy and "low level" tactics. No cookie cutter solutions. You still gotta think how to make it work.
Every Single Soldier
Vietnam ’65 developer
Vietnam ’65 developer
Posts: 1770
Joined: Wed Jan 14, 2015 4:40 pm

Re: Strategy - First Five Turns

Post by Every Single Soldier »

Thanks for all your input, really do appreciate the depth... :)
zakblood
Most Active User 2017
Most Active User 2017
Posts: 16505
Joined: Thu Jun 12, 2014 6:44 pm

Re: Strategy - First Five Turns

Post by zakblood »

good strategy, and plenty of fun
Every Single Soldier
Vietnam ’65 developer
Vietnam ’65 developer
Posts: 1770
Joined: Wed Jan 14, 2015 4:40 pm

Re: Strategy - First Five Turns

Post by Every Single Soldier »

Good morning General.... :shock:
ogre
Corporal - 5 cm Pak 38
Corporal - 5 cm Pak 38
Posts: 30
Joined: Mon Jun 01, 2015 4:13 am

Re: Strategy - First Five Turns

Post by ogre »

Vietnam65 wrote:Well, just imagine how much easier it would have been with air strikes :shock:

Have you tried the game with the custom settings cranked up ?
The following did me in:
Typhoon Weather
Elite Enemy
Extreme Jungle
H&M Start at 45
Random H&M
10000PP Start

355 Difficulty.

I got up to about 48 and as low as 40, and ended right where I started...45.
Had five NVA bases at one point, but enough enemy targets to keep me in the +PP.
Kept up the pressure. Just couldn't make the turn.
zakblood
Most Active User 2017
Most Active User 2017
Posts: 16505
Joined: Thu Jun 12, 2014 6:44 pm

Re: Strategy - First Five Turns

Post by zakblood »

yes but you enjoy it?
Every Single Soldier
Vietnam ’65 developer
Vietnam ’65 developer
Posts: 1770
Joined: Wed Jan 14, 2015 4:40 pm

Re: Strategy - First Five Turns

Post by Every Single Soldier »

Now that's good balancing, when you are engaged for 45 turns and it swings up and down :shock:
RussW
Senior Corporal - Destroyer
Senior Corporal - Destroyer
Posts: 113
Joined: Sun Apr 05, 2015 6:00 pm
Location: New Concord,,Ohio

Re: Strategy - First Five Turns

Post by RussW »

Vn65
Mate You are doing good duty here.Concise answers and good support
Semper Fi
Every Single Soldier
Vietnam ’65 developer
Vietnam ’65 developer
Posts: 1770
Joined: Wed Jan 14, 2015 4:40 pm

Re: Strategy - First Five Turns

Post by Every Single Soldier »

Thanks , very passionate about it too :shock:
Post Reply

Return to “Vietnam '65”