Mouse control enhancements?

It is 1965 and the US ground war in Vietnam is in full swing. As a US Army commander, wage a counter-insurgency (COIN) war to secure the Ia Drang valley, on the border with Cambodia.
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delor
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Mouse control enhancements?

Post by delor » Thu Mar 26, 2015 7:58 pm

Just picked up Vietnam '65, and it's pretty intriguing so far.

One thing that's immediately bugging me, though, is that the mouse controls don't behave like the vast majority of Windows applications including many strategy games. (although I'm a gamer from long enough back to remember when the setup used by Vietnam '65 was one of two competing standards for RTSes- one that's mostly vanished or been regulated to a non-default setting)

Typically, in a Windows application the left mouse button does something like this...

1) If cursor is over a UI widget, press it.
2) Else if cursor is over something select it.
3) Else, deselect anything selected.

... and the RMB is a contextual action button of some sort.

In Vietnam '65, the LMB both selects and executes actions even in the absence of a UI widget, and the RMB de-selects. As a newbie to your UI, I continuously left click to de-select a unit and accidentally issue a movement order instead. Since selection and action reside on the same button, this also means that mis-clicks intended to select can trigger an unintended action, which I've had happen once or twice as well.

It would be really nice if there was a toggle in the settings to switch the mouse controls to something like this:

LMB:
1) If cursor is over a UI widget, press it.
2) Else if cursor is over a unit select it. (/pop up the selection dialogue for units if multiple are present)
3) Else, deselect anything selected.

RMB:
1) If a unit is selected, take your action. (move to the location, pretty much, like LMB does now)
2) Else, do nothing.

It would also probably be sensible to default this to on since that's the UI grammar a new PC player coming in to the game without any experience particular to your game or engine might expect, but just having it as a toggle at all would be an improvement.

Every Single Soldier
Vietnam ’65 developer
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Re: Mouse control enhancements?

Post by Every Single Soldier » Thu Mar 26, 2015 8:17 pm

Thanks for the input, timing is good as we are reviewing the UI at the moment :)

dafrandle
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Re: Mouse control enhancements?

Post by dafrandle » Fri Mar 27, 2015 9:37 pm

while you're at that,

editable hotkeys

demyansk
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Re: Mouse control enhancements?

Post by demyansk » Tue Mar 31, 2015 10:29 pm

delor wrote:Just picked up Vietnam '65, and it's pretty intriguing so far.

One thing that's immediately bugging me, though, is that the mouse controls don't behave like the vast majority of Windows applications including many strategy games. (although I'm a gamer from long enough back to remember when the setup used by Vietnam '65 was one of two competing standards for RTSes- one that's mostly vanished or been regulated to a non-default setting)

Typically, in a Windows application the left mouse button does something like this...

1) If cursor is over a UI widget, press it.
2) Else if cursor is over something select it.
3) Else, deselect anything selected.

... and the RMB is a contextual action button of some sort.

In Vietnam '65, the LMB both selects and executes actions even in the absence of a UI widget, and the RMB de-selects. As a newbie to your UI, I continuously left click to de-select a unit and accidentally issue a movement order instead. Since selection and action reside on the same button, this also means that mis-clicks intended to select can trigger an unintended action, which I've had happen once or twice as well.

It would be really nice if there was a toggle in the settings to switch the mouse controls to something like this:

LMB:
1) If cursor is over a UI widget, press it.
2) Else if cursor is over a unit select it. (/pop up the selection dialogue for units if multiple are present)
3) Else, deselect anything selected.

RMB:
1) If a unit is selected, take your action. (move to the location, pretty much, like LMB does now)
2) Else, do nothing.

It would also probably be sensible to default this to on since that's the UI grammar a new PC player coming in to the game without any experience particular to your game or engine might expect, but just having it as a toggle at all would be an improvement.
Yes, this is what I mean in the post I started a few minutes ago. The lmb and rmb need to be changed.

I bought the game to support slitherine, I think the layout of the mouse functions should have been incorporated in the game, using the same button to select and move causes a problem.

Every Single Soldier
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Re: Mouse control enhancements?

Post by Every Single Soldier » Wed Apr 01, 2015 6:57 am

The UI is under review :)

pipfromslitherine
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Re: Mouse control enhancements?

Post by pipfromslitherine » Wed Apr 01, 2015 5:06 pm

Just as an example, the majority of players (despite the commonality of L/R control systems) are generally happier with a single button control system. BA originally shipped with L/R which allowed a distinction between selection and ordering, and a large number of players found it counter-intuitive. Obviously it depends upon what you are used to (e.g. C&C was L only, SC/WC were L/R) but it's definitely not a settled question. For those of us who use computers all the time the number of people for whom (e.g.) the RMB and things like dragging and dropping are mysteries is easy to underestimate ;)

Making it an option is always good, but it can be hard to come up with something that works both ways. But I am sure that Generalisimo '65 can come up with something that makes everyone happy :)

Cheers

Pip
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UsF
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Re: Mouse control enhancements?

Post by UsF » Mon Nov 14, 2016 5:15 pm

Is this still a possibility (the option of having placing movement orders on right click)? I just picked it up and was about to make a new topic. Having RMB do you default action (usually movement, but also attacks) is good practice nowadays in most games, because it prevents accidentally moving your unit by a wrong left click due to trying to select a unit and slightly missing.
Causing an accidental de-select is less problematic than causing an accidental movement, especially in a turn based game, where everything matters.
Once a player clicks on an explicit order icon, he usually knows that he wants to place one of them, so then left click is used to have those placed as well, while right click cancels those orders, but even if right clicks would be used, left click would just cancel the order and it wouldn't be an issue.
So yes, I'd like to vote for RMB actions as an option.

ErissN6
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Re: Mouse control enhancements?

Post by ErissN6 » Mon Nov 14, 2016 6:23 pm

UsF wrote:Causing an accidental de-select is less problematic than causing an accidental movement,
Now that it is told, I think it's part why I don't play V65 often. I remember now I sure did a misclick and immediatly stopped my game and quit as I wanted to play unbored. I remember at first it was not so a problem, for I reload a past game (we must learn to not forget to save often), but now I'm no longer so motivated, there are other games..

So, as a fan I was thinking that's not a problem, but now I remember this...

Too as misclick, there was the problem of not showing well what is an hexagon in jungle border, but this may have been patched.

Every Single Soldier
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Re: Mouse control enhancements?

Post by Every Single Soldier » Wed Nov 16, 2016 11:04 am

It's on the wishlist, but right now we're focussed on getting the game balanced and intorducing cool stuff (Husky mine clearance vehicles, Convoys etc etc ) :shock:

tsseo133
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Re: Mouse control enhancements?

Post by tsseo133 » Fri May 19, 2017 8:09 am

Thanks you

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