Took the plunge.....

Byzantine Productions Pike and Shot is a deep strategy game set during the bloody conflict of the Thirty Years War.

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vj531
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Took the plunge.....

Post by vj531 »

I purchased Pike & Shot last week from the sale.
I've had a quick go at the two of tutoriels after a quick one pot luck battle.
Having come from the excellent FoGII I've been somewhat disappointed P&S.
My reason for buying the it was the era and it weaponry of the that period and seeing it was from the FoG stable. Sadly I have been left slightly underwhelmed by P&S. It feels much lighter and lacks the the immersiveness of FoGII. Feels more abstract and maybe wrongly perceived as having less detail. Now this is my early impressions of the game but as we all know these early moments of a new game can be critical for it continued enjoyment by us fickle wargamers.
What am I not seeing or missing with P&S?
CaptCarnage
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Re: Took the plunge.....

Post by CaptCarnage »

Haha...

You are asking why a 2-year old game is not as good as its 2-months old successor...
vj531
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Re: Took the plunge.....

Post by vj531 »

CaptCarnage wrote:Haha...

You are asking why a 2-year old game is not as good as its 2-months old successor...
I was probably expecting too much I can see that. I will persevere in between getting battered at FOG2 :D
Panzerpimp
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Re: Took the plunge.....

Post by Panzerpimp »

vj531 wrote:It feels much lighter and lacks the the immersiveness of FoGII. Feels more abstract and maybe wrongly perceived as having less detail.
I don't see your point. Aside from graphics these games are very similar. There are differences in the rules, but for me they are minor, general principles are the same. Less detail? You mean graphics? It's stylized for the time period. As for me I really enjoy the look and feel of this game, the time period is interesting also and most important - the AI is great. :wink:
Make love, not war.
Micha63
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Re: Took the plunge.....

Post by Micha63 »

P nd S is the greatest game for 1600-1700 you can find on earth. Everything is a matter of taste. I would prefer the FOG 2 SCENARIOS would have done for P and S. But i must confess it tooked me almost 2 years to love the game.

The best Thing is before purchasing a game watching youtubevideos about the game. It saved me many times from purchasing bullshit.
Pixel
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Re: Took the plunge.....

Post by Pixel »

Stick with it. If you like the period Pike and Shot covers the game has a lot of nice user made scenarios and also a map based campaign mode that some prefer over the decision based style of FoG2 campaigns. I would say it has about the same level of detail game-play mechanics wise but isn't as streamlined due to the residual fire phases. The graphics are going to be a matter of taste and it is a older game then FoGII so no fancy unit animations. The only things that it really lacks are generals and a undo button. The gfx are based on period artwork though so there is a rationale behind the big massed block look of the units.

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Last edited by Pixel on Sat Dec 23, 2017 12:07 am, edited 1 time in total.
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w_michael
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Re: Took the plunge.....

Post by w_michael »

You seem to me missing the awe that many of us feel toward a much overlooked period, where religious philosophies clashed, the rights of kings and parliaments were decided, advances in technology begat new tactics, and the early nation state created. Compared to FoG2, there are new unit types that are introduced over the era which will require you to learn new tactics. Most units are able to shoot, and both players shoot in each player turn, so the interactions of units is unique to the era.

I guess that I have the opposite impression from the O.P. After playing FoG2, I've come to appreciate P&S even more when I play it. Sure, there are some user interface options that would be nice to have in P&S, but overall it is the best game on the market covering tactical Renaissance warfare.
Last edited by w_michael on Sat Dec 23, 2017 4:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.
William Michael, Pike & Shot Campaigns and Field of Glory II series enthusiast
CaptCarnage
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Re: Took the plunge.....

Post by CaptCarnage »

I bought FOG2 and after that I bought P&S because I just like the time period more.

The thing is, P&S looks amazing in the manoevering phase. Exactly like those old engravings. However when fighting starts, it is rather static. The FOG2 animations give way more immersion, and also more clarity. It is much clearer who is in melee with who.
However P&S give more epicness because a legion in FOG2 consists of 12 legionnaires or something and a tercio in P&S looks like it has a 1000 men or more.

In short, I like P&S more for the time period and it looks more like a battlefield, but I wish it had melee animations.
Bombax
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Re: Took the plunge.....

Post by Bombax »

vj531 wrote:Sadly I have been left slightly underwhelmed by P&S. It feels much lighter and lacks the the immersiveness of FoGII. Feels more abstract and maybe wrongly perceived as having less detail. Now this is my early impressions of the game but as we all know these early moments of a new game can be critical for it continued enjoyment by us fickle wargamers.
What am I not seeing or missing with P&S?
I'd make a couple of points to answer the OP -

Firstly, as someone pointed out above, P&S is by far the best computer wargame for this period, and AFAIK the only one that goes beyond a handful of specific battles. So if you're in love with this period - as I am - then it's an essential game to own.

Secondly, I think there's a degree of 'culture shock' when moving between P&S and FoG II. Most of us on here were hit with that the other way around. When I first played FoG II, I really didn't like the animations, the graphics (a handful of toy soldiers representing a unit instead of those classic pike blocks!) or the lack of a map in the campaign system. But, but, but - after a few games I changed my mind, and have been immersed in FoG II ever since - without losing the love for P&S :)

So I'd suggest sticking with P&S as it will almost certainly grow on you. There is a wealth of user content covering a vast swathe of nations and theatres, from the steppes of Tartary to the sands of Morroco and Algiers. There are loads of downloadable battles and campaigns. There's a great AI and a solid community of people playing MP battles... Once you've got used to the somewhat different appearance of P&S and the occasional different battlefield mechanism I'm pretty sure you'll start to enjoy it as much as you clearly enjoy FoG II 8)

Cheers,
Bombax.
CaptCarnage
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Re: Took the plunge.....

Post by CaptCarnage »

Oh and what I like more about Pike and Shot...

It has units with, well... Pike AND Shot. Ranged and melee weapons in one. So you can actually pepper your enemy before you go mano a mano.

FOG2 (at this moment) has this in seperated units, which is normal for the time period I suppose.

I hope there will be a proper Napoleonic expansion or standalone game one day.
w_michael
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Re: Took the plunge.....

Post by w_michael »

CaptCarnage wrote:Oh and what I like more about Pike and Shot...

It has units with, well... Pike AND Shot. Ranged and melee weapons in one. So you can actually pepper your enemy before you go mano a mano.

FOG2 (at this moment) has this in seperated units, which is normal for the time period I suppose.

I hope there will be a proper Napoleonic expansion or standalone game one day.
Persian Immortals and Sparabara are the only units in FoG2 that I know of with both shooting and close combat capabilities, which is why I like playing Persians.
William Michael, Pike & Shot Campaigns and Field of Glory II series enthusiast
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