Desert Rats 1940-42 beta testing

[caliban303power]

re: Medenine. I read the intro notes to indicate you should ignore the line and try and outflank it, though, you can't get armour past the rough desert so you can only run infantry up the left flank, which then gets stomped by armour.

"The Line will be tough to crack. It is heavily fortified and direct assault will be difficult. However, the Long Range Desert Group has discovered that it can be outflanked. A broad left hook maneuver through the Tebaga Gap and terminating at Gabes in the rear of the Line might win the day for us at relatively little cost. Moreover, it could trap the entire Axis force"

so a one, two attack then? armour and engineers hit the line while some infantry infiltrate up the left flank and link up with the main attack when they break through the line. Unless I'm missing a way to get armour through the features in the centre, the notes make it sound like the attack on the left should be quite dramatic, it would be quite sweet to drop a load of armour in the AC's rear

[Horst]

26Medenine: I was rather busy fighting for survival there until about turn 15. A single engineer unit would have helped me earlier to get faster through the minefields, but my many towed arty could still clear the road until I barely made it to the last primary VP. I was even cut-off from supply in the end, but it was still enough to push the last AI-vehicle from the town. I maybe totally missed the point of the mission, but at least I had my fun and challenge.
There are so many vehicles littered in the rear that any para action would have been doomed.
The rough desert there is indeed a problem later in the follow-up mission too where you actually have to break the line this time, but unlike the ~35 command in the previous scenario, you suddenly have like 300 which is utterly boring and easy. The difficulty difference from scenario 26 to 27 is so ridiculous large.

Whatever, I'm done with the campaign. I liked the large El Alamein battles and somewhat even the smaller Kasserine (only draw) and final Tunis mission as these posed at least some challenge what most other scenarios didn't.
I prefer to rather stick to a developing core which I have access to most of the scenarios with lesser aux units. I wouldn’t have mind to gain a second US core with a couple of more US scenarios to play during Operation Torch.
It was surprising that the AI turns proceeded quite fast despite the large map and unit sizes sometimes. That's at least something what is more or less working in OOB so far if the AI teams are set properly.
I’m already looking forward for a PzC Allied Corps conversion which offered a nice campaign too with Brit and US units from Africa on. It's entertaining to fight strong German units for a change.

[Erik2]

Taranto:
Added battleship sec obj.

Bardia:
Moved Italian armor unit and assigned it to a AI team.

Sonnenblume:
Fixed Axis air issues (added Benghazi airfield and added triggers to relocate Axis air base whenever an airstrip/airfield is captured).

Medenine:
Scenario briefing: "Before launching their own attack on Mareth, the Allies must counter Rommel's attack on Medenine." That is why the Axis start first.
Added 5 more turns.
Added more Allied command points.

Race For Tunis:
Relocated a number of Free French unit spawns to avoid them tangling with US reinforcements. Changed some AI orders.
Relocated Italian and German reinforcements. Added more orders to a number of AI teams.
Changed some Axis AI team orders.
Ran the scenario for 35 turns with no AI problems.

Link updated to 5.5

[kondi754]

Taranto:
Added battleship sec obj.

Bardia:
Moved Italian armor unit and assigned it to a AI team.

Sonnenblume:
Fixed Axis air issues (added Benghazi airfield and added triggers to relocate Axis air base whenever an airstrip/airfield is captured).


Link updated to 5.5

Thanks a lot, I played next scenarios (Madauur, Brevity, Battleaxe and just started Crusader), too
There were everythings ok for me... Maybe Luftwaffe was slightly too strong...

[tula1959]

I have taken EVERY gold and silver objective on the map and am NOT getting victory and end game - says I have 7 of 8 primary and 10 of 14 secondary - BUT THERE ARE NO MORE TO CAPTURE ON THE MAP...……….????????????????? Am I missing something here?????????????

[tula1959]

I should have also said that there are 7 gold primary objectives on the map and I hold all 7 of them (the Free French actually hold one of these) but there is not an 8th one anywhere I can see or find!!!!!??????????? What am I missing here?????

[bru888]

Here's the deal. The way Erik has this scenario designed is that it does not evaluate how many primary VP's you own until the end of the scenario. That is, the scenario does not end when you take 8 primary VPs; it ends . . . after 62 turns! And if you have the 8 primary VPs then, you win, but not until then:

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This is a choice that scenario designers must make and it depends on the amount of action in the scenario and the amount of turns the designer allows. Usually, a capture and hold mission is fine for a short to moderate length scenario. It could drag, however, with a scenario lasting 62 turns. I remember Erik and I talked about this when I did some CSI work on Desert Rats (maybe this scenario, maybe another like it) and Erik felt there was enough action to fill the number of turns necessary to play it out. His decision.

Long story short, then, you must play all 62 turns of this scenario to win and you must be holding 8 primary VPs at the end to win.

[bru888]

By the way, I believe there are 9 primary VPs on the map. The scenario editor is useful for pointing them out but you should also be able to click the information question next to the objective and keep clicking "Next" to see them all. In the editor, these eight show up; I could not get the ninth on the screen down in the southwest, near Takrouma:

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[tula1959]

Thanks as always bru! Played thru to the end and STILL did not get the victory - gave me a draw - even tho I had taken EVERY objective on the map (gold, silver and bronze)… Hmmmm????
Played on level 2, a bit too easy... I do see/hold all 9 primary objectives - but two of these have been held by Free French since the start of the game, they never moved from them and so could not take them with US/UK forces....and although I do get victory credit for one of these two, not so on the other (Tebourba, Medjez el Bab)… Hmmmm again ?????

[bru888]

Let me look at it again tonight (US EDT).

[tula1959]

Further observation re Race for Tunis - at the end of the game it gave me a draw saying I had 7 of 8 primary objectives when in fact I hold all 9 - likewise with secondary objectives it says I have 10 of 14 when in fact I have all 14!!! The problem seems to be that it is NOT giving credit for the 2 primary and 4 secondary that are, and have been from start, held by the Free French!!!!!!???
I will take the draw it gave me and move on but I wanted to put this info out! I can't imagine that I am the only one who has encountered this!!?? Thanks again bru!!

[bru888]

Further observation re Race for Tunis - at the end of the game it gave me a draw saying I had 7 of 8 primary objectives when in fact I hold all 9 - likewise with secondary objectives it says I have 10 of 14 when in fact I have all 14!!! The problem seems to be that it is NOT giving credit for the 2 primary and 4 secondary that are, and have been from start, held by the Free French!!!!!!???
I will take the draw it gave me and move on but I wanted to put this info out! I can't imagine that I am the only one who has encountered this!!?? Thanks again bru!!

That's a good clue. My guess at this point: It's looking for an Alliance (British) rather than a Team (British +FF) to be in charge of the VP's. I will look at this tonight.

[bru888]

tula, by your sheer grit, determination, and perseverance, you have made a significant contribution to scenario designing! You are the Rocky Balboa of OOB!

Erik, he's right; you have the Free French as an active (Seek & Destroy) Allied AI team member and it makes sense that they may end up in possession of one or more primary VPs in the end, so the trigger needs to look like this:

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Also, I noticed a problem with the corresponding Axis trigger; it's calling for only one VP to be held by them to fail the Allied objective. But, if there are 9 primary VPs on the map, if they do own one in the end with the other 8 in Allied hands, then the Allies should still win. Hence, this Value should be >1:

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It might be a good idea to go back over your scenarios and wherever you have AI Free French allied with the British (as opposed to being just another human faction), to make the objective triggers look at Team rather than Alliance where necessary.

[tula1959]

tula, by your sheer grit, determination, and perseverance, you have made a significant contribution to scenario designing! You are the Rocky Balboa of OOB!

That is high praise indeed bru!!! Glad to be of help to the designers!! Perhaps I deserve early promotion from corporal rank??

[bru888]

tula, by your sheer grit, determination, and perseverance, you have made a significant contribution to scenario designing! You are the Rocky Balboa of OOB!

That is high praise indeed bru!!! Glad to be of help to the designers!! Perhaps I deserve early promotion from corporal rank??

In my opinion, you deserve at least a tank instead of that pop gun you are currently sporting.

[Erik2]

General:
Reduced specialisation point 'income' pr scenario.
The British now start with zero specialisations at campaign start.
Added all British commanders in the first scenario.
Added/changed secondary object awards for most scenarios.


Race For Tunis:
Fixed objectives.

Link updated to 5.6

[tula1959]

Hate to say it but I found another snafu here.. Just finished Kasserine and gave me a draw even though I hold both primary objectives, Sbeitla and Kasserine, at the end!!!
One was held by British and the other by US …. My duty to report this as I did re Race for Tunis!! Sorry to make more work for you Erik!!

[tula1959]

I also held both secondary objectives as well - Tebessa and Thala

[tula1959]

Here is screenshot of the end result - can even see the

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two primary objectives held on the map!!

[bru888]

The problem with the Kasserine trigger is that it is evaluating only and exactly on Turn 1; it should probably be set for Scenario Turn Limit:

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The problem with the Sbeitla trigger is that both effects are set for Open. The victory effect should be set for Completed and the defeat effect should be set for Failed:

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