OOB Confidence over Time

Order of Battle is a series of operational WW2 games starting with the Pacific War and then on to Europe!

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bru888
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OOB Confidence over Time

Post by bru888 » Fri Jan 12, 2018 3:36 pm

This graph characterizes how I have felt about the prospects of this game since the very beginning of my time here:
Confidence over Time.jpg
Confidence over Time.jpg (25.29 KiB) Viewed 1510 times
The troughs are usually after long periods of relative silence and inactivity. The peaks are when the designers have reappeared with fixes and new material. The times in between are maintained by faith that they will keep coming back.

And that's just about minimal expectations. There is so much more that could be done with this game such as, yes, cleaning up typos and reported minor errors.* Such as updating the Online News. ** Such as updating and augmenting the officially sponsored Community Content. *** Such as updating the manual. **** Such as promoting OOB in social media. *****

Examples:

* How long has this poor guy been talking about this? And this has become my own personal OOB bête noire. If it falls into the same category of benign neglect, I don't see how I'm going to continue here.

** As of this morning, it's still announcing "Burma Road & Patch 4.1.1" - something as basic and as simple as that is not updated. Maybe there is a strategy involved to promote the previous DLC "in case you missed it"?

*** Has not changed since at least January 2016 despite some very fine community content having been developed in the meantime (thanks, Erik and Shards). Battle of Britain is down again and that was reported when Panzerkrieg was in beta.

**** The game manual has not been updated . . . ever? It still says "OOB Pacific" and it's missing major changes like the new specialisation system, revised naval maneuver and battle technique, and the import core army tool.

***** There isn't any, as far as I know. Search Facebook for "Order of Battle."

Sorry, but I don't buy the "small staff and limited time" excuse for lacking these absolute basics of running a successful franchise. As it is, it's like watching somebody indulging in his hobby which he barely has time for and picks up occasionally when he feels like it.

These things have always bothered me about OOB and make me doubt its long-term viability. This naturally leads to my questioning the time that I have spent on it.
- Bru

Shards
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Re: OOB Confidence over Time

Post by Shards » Fri Jan 12, 2018 4:23 pm

In summary, "It's complicated" :)

The best I can say for now is that I'm still very much into the project, even though I'm only the Slitherine Producer and not a member of the Artistocrats. And I don't think I'd still be so into it if things weren't still "active".

We've got a few initiatives and plans for 2018 in the works, one of which will certainly be to do a general tidying up of the issues that you and others have been raising Bru. Did you say you had a bookmark folder recording the current active hot topics? Would you mind dropping me a PM about that so I can get them logged more formally?

Ta!

terminator
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Re: OOB Confidence over Time

Post by terminator » Fri Jan 12, 2018 4:43 pm

Posted: Tuesday, January 9, 2018 by Alberto Casulini

Type: News

2017 is gone. It was a great year for Order of Battle with many new expansions being released, greatly expanding the list of available campaigns, scenarios, factions and units, as well as adding plenty of amazing new features.

But let’s look forward, to 2018: there is much more coming your way. Work continues relentlessly and without pause. The goal is to bring the beloved Order of Battle formula to new battlefields and adapt it to represent the various types of warfare waged in WWII.

Next week we will also announce something community related… if you’re a fan of Order of Battle you don’t want to miss this, so stay tuned!

Horst
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Re: OOB Confidence over Time

Post by Horst » Fri Jan 12, 2018 5:58 pm

We are only two addons short to finish the base of a complete ww2 game: North Africa and Germany-USSR 44-45. Afterwards, you can basically play and create whatever scenario and campaign someone likes with the major factions. OOB can offer then more theatres than Panzer Corps that lacks the Pacific content. Surely, it’s not that easy and fast to create new 3d-units for OOB like the simple 2d-pictures for PzC for less common units or units of other minor factions. OOB already offers about 1300 units - that is something that not many other 3d war games can do.

Can’t hurt to do a break from a game and check it out again after some time has passed, like a half year. It doesn’t help to anxiously wait every day in a forum that something exciting happens. There is more than a single game out there or just other things in life that can distract meanwhile.
Take it easy! 8)

kondi754
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Re: OOB Confidence over Time

Post by kondi754 » Fri Jan 12, 2018 6:50 pm

@Horst
You forgot about the last part of the German trilogy and the campaign of the Western Allies (1943-45), so there will be 4 campaigns to the end of the II world war

Horst
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Re: OOB Confidence over Time

Post by Horst » Fri Jan 12, 2018 7:44 pm

Eh, don't know what's not clear by "Germany-USSR 44-45" as last part of the German trilogy aka. Volkskrieg? Fine, maybe WesternAllies-Germany-USSR 44-45 then in Volkskrieg if we have to switch to both fronts during the campaign! We should receive all the left units for German and Soviet side here to create campaigns for both sides then. Hopefully they don't forget a Soviet towed 76.2mm AT gun/mode again...

After North Africa, there should be more or less all Western Allied units available. Okay, maybe the Comet tank and some other few Brit units could still be missing but maybe they will be included in Volkskrieg.
I expect the North African campaign to include all necessary Italian units for the Sicily landing. Maybe the scenario will even be included there. Who knows what will all be skipped with the typical 12 missions if the campaign will be most likely on Allied side.
Of course there is still more room for other official campaigns, but we should roughly have all important units and theaters like desert available then.

Oleksandr
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Re: OOB Confidence over Time

Post by Oleksandr » Fri Jan 12, 2018 7:51 pm

bru888 is absolutely right. There any many issues which are easy to fix, but they are not getting fixed.I understand that some issues can take time, but not having fixed broken unit stats or traits, for example, when they have been reported months ago, is unacceptable in our times. This is a niche game and developers should fight for every customer, so game support in should be on a higher level.

kondi754
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Re: OOB Confidence over Time

Post by kondi754 » Fri Jan 12, 2018 8:15 pm

Horst wrote:Eh, don't know what's not clear by "Germany-USSR 44-45" as last part of the German trilogy aka. Volkskrieg? Fine, maybe WesternAllies-Germany-USSR 44-45 then in Volkskrieg if we have to switch to both fronts during the campaign! We should receive all the left units for German and Soviet side here to create campaigns for both sides then. Hopefully they don't forget a Soviet towed 76.2mm AT gun/mode again...

After North Africa, there should be more or less all Western Allied units available. Okay, maybe the Comet tank and some other few Brit units could still be missing but maybe they will be included in Volkskrieg.
I expect the North African campaign to include all necessary Italian units for the Sicily landing. Maybe the scenario will even be included there. Who knows what will all be skipped with the typical 12 missions if the campaign will be most likely on Allied side.
Of course there is still more room for other official campaigns, but we should roughly have all important units and theaters like desert available then.
Ok, list below:
1. Volkskrieg 1944-45 (German)
2. North Africa 1940-43 (German)
3. Eastern Front 1941-45 (Soviet)
4. Western Front 1943-45 (Western Allies)
so there will be 4 IIWW campaign, is it clear for you now?

there is still a lot of unused equipment and units

portee, archer, challanger, comet, firefly, cangaroo, typhon, tempest, meteor, mosquito, stirling, halifax, lancaster, late shermans, US self propelled howitzers and guns, hetzer, panther g, tiger II, jagdtiger, jagdpanther, sturmtiger, ta 152, me 262 and many, many other things...

Horst
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Re: OOB Confidence over Time

Post by Horst » Fri Jan 12, 2018 8:38 pm

The first two campaigns should already finish the base - that's what I wrote. I see this more as base for creating own campaigns. If you like to play only official stuff then you surely have to wait much longer.
Let's see what will all be included in Africa and Volkskrieg.
North Africa alone will already be a milestone. Hopefully they create more than Desert and Rough Desert terrain. I'm afraid of the lousy Desert speed like the Beach one that the chassis.txt shows there. All tanks' speed halved doesn't sound very exciting. I think the mobile war was rather fought on hard-pressed sand that offered faster movement.

terminator
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Re: OOB Confidence over Time

Post by terminator » Fri Jan 12, 2018 8:45 pm

kondi754 wrote:there is still a lot of unused equipment and units

portee, archer, challanger, comet, firefly, cangaroo, typhon, tempest, meteor, mosquito, stirling, halifax, lancaster, late shermans, US self propelled howitzers and guns, hetzer, panther g, tiger II, jagdtiger, jagdpanther, sturmtiger, ta 152, me 262 and many, many other things...
Did you notice this in the Editor ?
Missile.JPG
Missile.JPG (11.12 KiB) Viewed 1415 times

Horst
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Re: OOB Confidence over Time

Post by Horst » Fri Jan 12, 2018 8:54 pm

The missile class was already defined from day-one on.
By the way, from the mentioned unit list above there, following units are already there:
- Firefly
- British Sherman II and III (more or less all US M4 tank variants from Pacific are there from beginning)

kondi754
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Re: OOB Confidence over Time

Post by kondi754 » Fri Jan 12, 2018 10:23 pm

You are right, almost all shermans are here, my mistake

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Re: OOB Confidence over Time

Post by Andy2012 » Sat Jan 13, 2018 9:37 am

Horst wrote: It doesn’t help to anxiously wait every day in a forum that something exciting happens. There is more than a single game out there or just other things in life that can distract meanwhile.
Take it easy! 8)
I agree with this. (Even though as a mod, you do have to check out this place regularly.) On the one hand, I wish the Artistocrats would hire staff to fix these issues quickly (always had the feeling they were a bit stretched thin). On the other hand, I dont know anything about software development, their business model or sales numbers and cash flow targets. So I cant really weigh in.
But I am really curious about the next Panzerkrieg Patch. Please include a detailed patch list, more than "various issues fixed". If I play Panzerkrieg again, I want to know what has been changed. (If possible...)

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Re: OOB Confidence over Time

Post by terminator » Sat Jan 13, 2018 10:08 am

kondi754 wrote: Ok, list below:
1. Volkskrieg 1944-45 (German)
2. North Africa 1940-43 (German)
3. Eastern Front 1941-45 (Soviet)
4. Western Front 1943-45 (Western Allies)
I think that only one DLC with 10-12 scenarios is not enough for Soviet Corps. Why 1941-1945 ? Why not 1939-1945 ?
Two DLC should be better for Soviet Corps.

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Re: OOB Confidence over Time

Post by Horst » Sat Jan 13, 2018 10:29 am

I don't think either that a single campaign is enough on Soviet side, especially if it starts in Finland. Three campaigns like the Germans should rather be justified. I'd love to struggle in the Winter War first against Finland, defending my freezing comrades from annoying ambushes.
I also imagine IF the North African campaign is on Allied side then it should work well to continue with the same core in Italy and afterwards in Normandy right to the Ruhr pocket. I don't know if one campaign is enough for Italy and Normandy+. There are so many interesting, historical scenarios that '44 alone offers.

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Re: OOB Confidence over Time

Post by kondi754 » Sat Jan 13, 2018 11:04 am

Knowing the developers, I think that the Soviet campaign will start near Moscow in 1941
I think it will be the easiest way to introduce a sensible core forces which will be able to be further developed. There will be a persistent defense in the first part of the scn (we will need to maintain some amount of VPs), and then a counterattack on weakened enemy units using new available supplies (support from the Far East) in the second part.
My list o scenarios:
1. Moscow 41
2. Kharkov 42
3. Caucasus 42
4. Stalingrad (Op. Uranus) 42
5. Operation Star 43
6. Kursk 43 south (although devs could split the screen into 2 parts, as in some Marines DLC missions, so we could play both battles in the north and south of the Kursk at the same time, simultaneously :wink: )
7. Belgorod/Kharkov 43
8. Dnepr 43
9. Cherkassy/Korsun 44
10. Bagration 44
11. Vistula-Oder 45
12. Berlin 45

Horst
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Re: OOB Confidence over Time

Post by Horst » Sat Jan 13, 2018 11:37 am

Moscow '41 already sounds quite large for a campaign start. The player starts with only few inexperienced units that couldn't be enough or let's say it's not justified for such a large scenario. It would have to take a lot of aux-units to compensate for an counter-attack either.
I think the Soviet–Japanese border conflicts, Polish Invasion and/or Winter War offers an easier start for the player core. A small start at beginning can never hurt for the sake of learning and training your new faction units.

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Re: OOB Confidence over Time

Post by terminator » Sat Jan 13, 2018 12:46 pm

In PanzerCorps Soviet Corps there was 31 scenarios :
- Berlin
- Bialystok
- Budapest
- Debrecen
- Khalkin Gol
- Kursk
- Moscow
- Romania
- Smolensk
- Stalingrad
- Caucasus
- Dnieper
- Seelow Heights
- Western Europe
- Crimean Offensive
- Frontline Duty
- Korsun-Cherkassy Pocket
- Last Man Standing
- Operation Bagration
- Operation Saturn
- Operation Silver Fox
- Operation Uranus
- Ruingrad
- Rzhev-Vyazma Offensive
- Second Battle of Kharkov
- Sinyavino Offensive
- Soviet invasion of Manchuria
- Soviet invasion of Poland
- Summer Offensive
- Winter War
- Zig Zag

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Re: OOB Confidence over Time

Post by kondi754 » Sat Jan 13, 2018 1:17 pm

It seems to me it is unlikely that developers will decide on 15 (or 30 :shock: ) missions in the campaign. In my opinion, it is even less likely to split Soviet or Western Allies campaigns on separate DLCs.
I know from well-informed sources that the list of campaigns is closed. :wink:

Africa icon also suggest it will be only one-sided DLC. Sorry...

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Re: OOB Confidence over Time

Post by Horst » Sat Jan 13, 2018 1:24 pm

Okay, so it's Endkrieg now instead of Volkskrieg. :D
Liberation sounds very likely to begin with Operation Torch, mainly with US troops according to the flag.
Fine by me if it's Afrika Korps then. Let's see how frustrating this campaign is going to be in the end of the 12 or what loosing missions.
I guess the Soviet campaign is going to earn some moans of disappointment then due lack of missions.
Doesn't matter, as long as diligent fans (aka. customers) are motivated to create all kind of custom-content with more or less all available units sooner or later.

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