Is just me or is the unreliable trait for Panthers and Tigers a bit too much?
Even attacking counts for the trait (just lost 3 in efficiency for attacking a Russian recon unit effectively putting the entire unit (an entire tank battalion!?!?) out of commission for a round or two) and it seems to me that the odds for losing efficiency are so high that I practically cant move it, not even a single hex, without a very high risk of losing 1-4 (?) efficiency.
Unreliable too unreliable
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Re: Unreliable too unreliable
In this case, I think it is very good.
Tigers and especially Panthers were broked down extremely often, were affected by a number of failures and faults at the beginning of their use (1942/43 Tiger I, 1943/44 Panther D/A).
The quick loss of efficency is a tribute to historical compliance in my opinion.
I hope we all agree that PzKw IV was the main tank (workhorse
) Panzerwaffe until the end of the war.
But I also believe that the statistics of Russian tanks should change. T-34 and KV-1 produced before the war (versions 40 and 41) should be stronger.
Tanks from 1942 should have much weaker statistics, because the production quality dropped dramatically during this period (fall/winter 1941- winter 1942/43).
This fact was caused by both the relocation of factories behind the Urals, as well as the lowering of production standards (used steel for example), in favor of the amount of produced weapons.
I think that Soviet tanks from 1942 should also be much cheaper. Tanks from 1943 should have better statistics, but still worse than those from 1940-41.
Significant qualitative change was the introduction of the T-34-85 and KV-85 in the second half of 1943.
Developers should think about what I wrote before work on the Soviet campaign begins.
Tigers and especially Panthers were broked down extremely often, were affected by a number of failures and faults at the beginning of their use (1942/43 Tiger I, 1943/44 Panther D/A).
The quick loss of efficency is a tribute to historical compliance in my opinion.
I hope we all agree that PzKw IV was the main tank (workhorse
) Panzerwaffe until the end of the war.But I also believe that the statistics of Russian tanks should change. T-34 and KV-1 produced before the war (versions 40 and 41) should be stronger.
Tanks from 1942 should have much weaker statistics, because the production quality dropped dramatically during this period (fall/winter 1941- winter 1942/43).
This fact was caused by both the relocation of factories behind the Urals, as well as the lowering of production standards (used steel for example), in favor of the amount of produced weapons.
I think that Soviet tanks from 1942 should also be much cheaper. Tanks from 1943 should have better statistics, but still worse than those from 1940-41.
Significant qualitative change was the introduction of the T-34-85 and KV-85 in the second half of 1943.
Developers should think about what I wrote before work on the Soviet campaign begins.
Last edited by kondi754 on Sat Dec 30, 2017 1:38 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Re: Unreliable too unreliable
If the low reliability of Tigers and Panthers is intentional, that an excellent news! It would encourage players to build more rational, cost effective cores. During the operation Zitadelle two thirds of Panthers broke down without any contact with the enemy.
Mickey Mouse
\m/ \m/
\m/ \m/
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GabeKnight
- Lieutenant-General - Karl-Gerat 040
- Posts: 3700
- Joined: Mon Nov 27, 2017 10:24 pm
Re: Unreliable too unreliable
True, but even on really low efficiency (1-3) a high-star Tiger can still deliver a punch and take quite a beating without losing even one strenght point. Used as defensive positions on important supply hexes these things are practically undestroyable if efficiency is >0.WarHomer wrote:Is just me or is the unreliable trait for Panthers and Tigers a bit too much?
Even attacking counts for the trait (just lost 3 in efficiency for attacking a Russian recon unit effectively putting the entire unit (an entire tank battalion!?!?) out of commission for a round or two) and it seems to me that the odds for losing efficiency are so high that I practically cant move it, not even a single hex, without a very high risk of losing 1-4 (?) efficiency.
Re: Unreliable too unreliable
It is an accurate observation, because the Tigers were often used this way (for example in Normandy or Italy)GabeKnight wrote: (...)Used as defensive positions on important supply hexes these things are practically undestroyable if efficiency is >0.
Re: Unreliable too unreliable
I'm fine with it. As has been pointed out, they are great defensive beasts. Back one up with a Stug IIIF and chuckle when at T-60 attacks your Tiger and blows itself up without a scratch on the Tiger.
"Tigers, Noboby said nothing about Tigers..."
"Tigers, Noboby said nothing about Tigers..."
Re: Unreliable too unreliable
Oddball from "Kelly's heroes"?kverdon wrote:
"Tigers, Noboby said nothing about Tigers..."
Re: Unreliable too unreliable
Yep!
"Woof, Woof, That is my other dog imitation"...
Don't get me started
"Woof, Woof, That is my other dog imitation"...
Don't get me started
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lloydster4
- Lance Corporal - SdKfz 222
- Posts: 21
- Joined: Sun Dec 15, 2013 4:04 am
Re: Unreliable too unreliable
A couple observations on moving unreliable units:
-They do not lose efficiency if you move them by rail
-They do not lose efficiency if you switch their position with an adjacent unit (control + click)
While still cumbersome, early tigers are very effective at defending cities along rail lines. Later model Tigers make great spearheads on attack.
It's a lot harder for me to recommend the Panther D, especially since it's the same price as the Tiger. The Panther A is an excellent unit, but I still prefer the Panzer IVH.
The IV is easily the most cost-effective tank available, and I'd rather have extra money to spend on airpower, artillery, and stugs.
-They do not lose efficiency if you move them by rail
-They do not lose efficiency if you switch their position with an adjacent unit (control + click)
While still cumbersome, early tigers are very effective at defending cities along rail lines. Later model Tigers make great spearheads on attack.
It's a lot harder for me to recommend the Panther D, especially since it's the same price as the Tiger. The Panther A is an excellent unit, but I still prefer the Panzer IVH.
The IV is easily the most cost-effective tank available, and I'd rather have extra money to spend on airpower, artillery, and stugs.
Re: Unreliable too unreliable
After moving many Tigers around: Unreliable trait has a 50% chance to reduce efficiency by 2 points, no matter how far you move.
If you additionally move more than one hex on terrain with disruption, like swamp and jungle, you loose more points of course.
If you additionally move more than one hex on terrain with disruption, like swamp and jungle, you loose more points of course.
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GabeKnight
- Lieutenant-General - Karl-Gerat 040
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Re: Unreliable too unreliable
Nice. Thanks for testing.Horst wrote:After moving many Tigers around: Unreliable trait has a 50% chance to reduce efficiency by 2 points, no matter how far you move.
If you additionally move more than one hex on terrain with disruption, like swamp and jungle, you loose more points of course.
Seems a bit too unreliable...