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Kiev Scenario in Blitzkreig

Posted: Thu Jan 12, 2017 12:14 am
by richfed
Have attempted this battle at least a dozen times ... cannot win. Playing at the middle difficulty level w/ version 2.9.9. I always take Kiev, several times I have controlled & connected those 3 objectives in the east [but have failed to notice any benefit - other than the destruction of Russian units], a couple of times I have destroyed 40+ within 15 turns ... but no matter what I attempt, I cannot seem to destroy 100 units in time. Most I have gotten is about 85, so I'm not even close. I don't know the exact unit designations I am using from my core, but generically the composition is: 4 tactical bombers, 2 fighters, 2 heavy tanks, 2 light tanks, 1 howitzer, 2 AA guns, 3 heavy infantry, 2 engineers, 2 SS units, the rest are infantry. I have tried various incarnations of splitting my forces, massing my forces, trying to outflank and starve them out, etc. Constant fail.

Any strategy tips on this one? Would truly like to advance to Moscow. Seems to me, perhaps, that this scenario is too short. I don't know. It is also possible that I suck at this game! :oops:

Re: Kiev Scenario in Blitzkreig

Posted: Thu Jan 12, 2017 2:37 am
by Asap
Watch this "Let's Play" maybe it helps you a little :) ---> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=72BEJp_ ... 3&index=59 Btw. I did not split my forces, I attacked with all I had from the north.

Re: Kiev Scenario in Blitzkreig

Posted: Thu Jan 12, 2017 8:30 am
by Andy2012
richfed wrote:Have attempted this battle at least a dozen times ... cannot win. Playing at the middle difficulty level w/ version 2.9.9. I always take Kiev, several times I have controlled & connected those 3 objectives in the east [but have failed to notice any benefit - other than the destruction of Russian units], a couple of times I have destroyed 40+ within 15 turns ... but no matter what I attempt, I cannot seem to destroy 100 units in time. Most I have gotten is about 85, so I'm not even close. I don't know the exact unit designations I am using from my core, but generically the composition is: 4 tactical bombers, 2 fighters, 2 heavy tanks, 2 light tanks, 1 howitzer, 2 AA guns, 3 heavy infantry, 2 engineers, 2 SS units, the rest are infantry. I have tried various incarnations of splitting my forces, massing my forces, trying to outflank and starve them out, etc. Constant fail.

Any strategy tips on this one? Would truly like to advance to Moscow. Seems to me, perhaps, that this scenario is too short. I don't know. It is also possible that I suck at this game! :oops:
Sometimes, you cant see the forest for the trees, I guess. Dont worry.

I always left Kiev alone at first and only kept the aux units there. They get attacked by Conscripts, but can usually destroy them easily. Let them dig in around the HeavyInf Aux, you should be fine.
Deploy your core to the north and south, but concentrate your tanks, elite infantry and mobile arty in the south. In the North, put some infantry, AT and heavy arty. Slowly push from the north with heavy arty support, watch out for tank counterattacks, so bring your AT. In the south, use your Stukas, arty, tanks to smash through the lines and connect all 3 cities over 12-15 turns. Keep some infantry around the river crossings, the Russians will try to cut your supply lines there. After the three cities are yours, all Russian units inside the salient and Kiev are undersupplied. Unite the northern and southern pincer, keep the Russians undersupplied (dont worry about attacks from the rear, they never come) and advance towards Kiev. Take villages on the road to further cut into their supply. When your armored spearheads reach the outskirts of Kiev, use your Aux units and attack from the other side as well. Key is to first connect the three silver cities and thus cut off the salient around Kiev and then starve them out. And dont let the Russians cut your tanks supply while doing so.

Oh yeah, why so much AA and Stukas? Better use that money for more fighters to clear the skies and scout. HeavyInf is also expensive and slow. But those are just my two cents.
Hope this helps. :D

Re: Kiev Scenario in Blitzkreig

Posted: Thu Jan 12, 2017 5:52 pm
by GiveWarAchance
Sounds like fun battle.
I love Stukas.
I like heavy infantry too and I like a mix all types of infantry instead of only one type.

Re: Kiev Scenario in Blitzkreig

Posted: Thu Jan 12, 2017 10:45 pm
by TDefender
You have to destroy 100 enemy units in just 30 turn with no extra money bonus at all ( :shock: ) against several enemy tanks and a strong air support... I'm experiencing problems too, once again I have to say the balance on this Blitzkrieg dlc has to be revised imho :?

... and unfortunately it's not that fun this kind of battles of this dlc where you have just have to destroy so many enemy units with little time, poor money , poor award for secondary missions etc.
Asap wrote:Watch this "Let's Play" maybe it helps you a little :) ---> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=72BEJp_ ... 3&index=59 Btw. I did not split my forces, I attacked with all I had from the north.
Mhhh 464 points at begin with most of the forces with 4 or 5 experience stars and even SS troups acquired.... what difficult level? Cheats?

Re: Kiev Scenario in Blitzkreig

Posted: Thu Jan 12, 2017 11:37 pm
by bru888
I'm not overly ashamed to admit that the one cheat that I use occasionally is #overtime.

Re: Kiev Scenario in Blitzkreig

Posted: Fri Jan 13, 2017 2:24 am
by richfed
Asap wrote:Watch this "Let's Play" maybe it helps you a little :) ---> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=72BEJp_ ... 3&index=59 Btw. I did not split my forces, I attacked with all I had from the north.
Started watching ... I can say that I have tried his deployment scheme several times ... lost. Very tough scenario. Will continue watching ... and playing. Sooner or later I am bound to get lucky.

Oh ... question ... how do to employ the cheat: #overtime? I could use a few extra turns.

Re: Kiev Scenario in Blitzkreig

Posted: Fri Jan 13, 2017 2:29 am
by GiveWarAchance
100 units in 30 turns is like 3 or 4 enemy unit kills per turn which seems normal. I'm most probably killing off 4 or 5 Chinese units per turn in my campaign and often double that number when several enemy groups are being reduced simultaneously, but the Russians are probably more thick-skinned and nasty so I have no clue even though I am futilely trying to add to this conversation with nothing but weak conjecture to offer. I think you need more fighter planes in that Kiev battle to get air superiority sorted out and you can add the enemy planes to your kill count.

Oddly enough despite the problems discussed, I am feeling peckish for that battle now but I only have Pacific campaign DLCs so far. I like playing as Japan cause it is very rare to have that chance and I like their all their units especially tanks, airplanes and ships. Okay I'm going way off-topic now. Sorry

Re: Kiev Scenario in Blitzkreig

Posted: Fri Jan 13, 2017 4:46 am
by Asap
My Starting Position Kiev:
Screenshot 2.jpg
Screenshot 2.jpg (250.2 KiB) Viewed 3492 times

Re: Kiev Scenario in Blitzkreig

Posted: Fri Jan 13, 2017 5:54 am
by Andy2012
TDefender wrote:You have to destroy 100 enemy units in just 30 turn with no extra money bonus at all ( :shock: ) against several enemy tanks and a strong air support... I'm experiencing problems too, once again I have to say the balance on this Blitzkrieg dlc has to be revised imho :?

... and unfortunately it's not that fun this kind of battles of this dlc where you have just have to destroy so many enemy units with little time, poor money , poor award for secondary missions etc.
Asap wrote:Watch this "Let's Play" maybe it helps you a little :) ---> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=72BEJp_ ... 3&index=59 Btw. I did not split my forces, I attacked with all I had from the north.
Mhhh 464 points at begin with most of the forces with 4 or 5 experience stars and even SS troups acquired.... what difficult level? Cheats?
It's doable. The devs actually downgraded this scenario; previously, it was "destroy all units and take Kiev", which meant hunting the strays in the far east corner of the map. (Ridiculous.)
Knocking out this many units becomes easier or actually possible when you focus on the supply dynamics (cut off Kiev) and use a lot of arty preparation to cut their efficiency. I think a lot of problems stem from that and the fact that you guys use too little heavy arty and fighters and wayyyy too many tanks and stugs (see screenshot above, no offense). Especially not having sufficient fighter cover to knock out enemy bombers bleeds you dry fast. Also, attacking positions with AT support when you only have tanks in the front is really costly. You need your infantry and paras. Army composition is key to ace these missions; makes your credits last a lot longer.

Re: Kiev Scenario in Blitzkreig

Posted: Fri Jan 13, 2017 6:46 am
by Asap
I had no problems with Kiev Andy2012, really. I wanted to try it with 4 StuG III (as artillery units) because they can advance fast. You don't need much of the expensive heavy artillery that cannot move and fire in the same turn. The 7.5 cm leIG 18 (a real & wicked "cacafuego" if you ask me) is a cheap, mighty fine artillery unit as well. My 4 elite Fw 190 did a great job and I needed all of my 3 tanks very badly during the whole mission, especially at the beginning. I agree with you about the infantry, because this game is no tank game. You need infantry units, lots of infantry units! :)

Re: Kiev Scenario in Blitzkreig

Posted: Fri Jan 13, 2017 9:16 am
by TDefender
Asap wrote: I agree with you about the infantry, because this game is no tank game. You need infantry units, lots of infantry units! :)
Considering the screenshot you posted above I wouldn't say that , I see a lot of armored/tanks units! :shock:

Maybe the point is how you reach the final missions, I achieved the first 4-5 missions with no really problems and always achieved most of secondary goals but I don't know how you get Kiev mission with all that stuff with 3-4 experience stars too :shock:
In this dlc you almost never get extra points from secondary objectives how the hell do you get so much points for that
army? :D

PS

(never had such a problem with the 2 core game campaigns (Usa and Japan) but the issue began with the following dlc campaigns)

Re: Kiev Scenario in Blitzkreig

Posted: Fri Jan 13, 2017 9:44 am
by Andy2012
Asap wrote:I had no problems with Kiev Andy2012, really. I wanted to try it with 4 StuG III (as artillery units) because they can advance fast. You don't need much of the expensive heavy artillery that cannot move and fire in the same turn. The 7.5 cm leIG 18 (a real & wicked "cacafuego" if you ask me) is a cheap, mighty fine artillery unit as well. My 4 elite Fw 190 did a great job and I needed all of my 3 tanks very badly during the whole mission, especially at the beginning. I agree with you about the infantry, because this game is no tank game. You need infantry units, lots of infantry units! :)
Sorry, didnt look that closely, was tired. Yeah, you have 4 FW 190s and a lot of Stugs. Even though that is some mighty army there, especially with the two 88s in reserve it is quite expensive. Never could afford those or a full set of FW 190s. How do you manage your resources so well? Any strategy tips? (And those 88s are also too immobile to be effective AT in an offensive operation.) As far as immobile arty is concerned, the 17cm K18 has a wicked range and hits like a mofo. Immobility is not a factor if you only have to move it once or twice when attacking during a whole scenario. :mrgreen:

Re: Kiev Scenario in Blitzkreig

Posted: Fri Jan 13, 2017 9:50 am
by Andy2012
TDefender wrote:
Asap wrote: I agree with you about the infantry, because this game is no tank game. You need infantry units, lots of infantry units! :)
Considering the screenshot you posted above I wouldn't say that , I see a lot of armored/tanks units! :shock:

Maybe the point is how you reach the final missions, I achieved the first 4-5 missions with no really problems and always achieved most of secondary goals but I don't know how you get Kiev mission with all that stuff with 3-4 experience stars too :shock:
In this dlc you almost never get extra points from secondary objectives how the hell do you get so much points for that
army? :D

PS

(never had such a problem with the 2 core game campaigns (Usa and Japan) but the issue began with the following dlc campaigns)
Agree with the resource issue. In all campaigns I played, they were really stingy at the beginning and in some missions, other scenarios drowned you in money. Especially at the end, I had more money than I knew how to spend or had control points to utilise.

Does anybody know if there is a list of resource points awards per scenario (not per turn, per win)? Panzer Corps has them somewhere in the forums; it is definitely useful.

Re: Kiev Scenario in Blitzkreig

Posted: Fri Jan 13, 2017 10:30 am
by Asap
I started the Blitzkrieg DLC with a poor core force, mainly regular and cheap infantry units and plenty of cheap 7,5 cm "cacafuegos", that's where I saved a lot of requisition points. I try to bring as many units as possible to a battle, for example, the infantry gets no trucks, never, they all have to walk, so I can deploy more combat units. I always try to kill all enemy units on every map without losing any of my own core units ever, that's where the experience comes from and a high experienced core saves you a lot of requisition points as well. If you look closely at my screenshot you will also notice some changes I did recently, I played Kiev without these changes (trucks don't require any command points, a more powerful 8.8 and so on..). I like the Stug III as artillery unit, in Minsk I used 2 of them and it was fine. I wouldn't use more than 4 StuG III in my core.

Re: Kiev Scenario in Blitzkreig

Posted: Fri Jan 13, 2017 12:07 pm
by Andy2012
Asap wrote:I started the Blitzkrieg DLC with a poor core force, mainly regular and cheap infantry units and plenty of cheap 7,5 cm "cacafuegos", that's where I saved a lot of requisition points. I try to bring as many units as possible to a battle, for example, the infantry gets no trucks, never, they all have to walk, so I can deploy more combat units. I always try to kill all enemy units on every map without losing any of my own core units ever, that's where the experience comes from and a high experienced core saves you a lot of requisition points as well. If you look closely at my screenshot you will also notice some changes I did recently, I played Kiev without these changes (trucks don't require any command points, a more powerful 8.8 and so on..). I like the Stug III as artillery unit, in Minsk I used 2 of them and it was fine. I wouldn't use more than 4 StuG III in my core.
Okay, so our approaches are slightly different then. I prefer the heavy arty and some infantry with transport, no heavyinf. Guess thats were my money went then. Also, I use elite reinforcements after my units reach a certain experience level. Thats also pricey. But we both dont accept losses and aim for high exp levels.
Always thought I might have to rethink my Panzercorps strategy of going more for quality than quantity in OOB.

Re: Kiev Scenario in Blitzkreig

Posted: Fri Jan 13, 2017 7:55 pm
by Asap
"Okay, so our approaches are slightly different then. I prefer the heavy arty and some infantry with transport, no heavyinf. Guess thats were my money went then. Also, I use elite reinforcements after my units reach a certain experience level. Thats also pricey. But we both dont accept losses and aim for high exp levels.
Always thought I might have to rethink my Panzercorps strategy of going more for quality than quantity in OOB."

I always use elite reinforcements for my core units. The heavy artillery is very expensive and you need more command points for it. I would prefer three cheap 7.5 cm leIG 18 instead of two heavy guns like the 17cm K18 early in the game but you know, many roads lead to Rome 8)

Re: Kiev Scenario in Blitzkreig

Posted: Fri Jan 13, 2017 8:09 pm
by rocklobb
I'm currently on my second attempt fighting through the Kiev scenario. At deployment, I divided my force almost equally into Northern and Southern Task Forces. Each Task Force had a Heavy Tank (Mk IV or Mk III), a Light Tank (Mk IIs), a Stug, a Heavy Infantry, an Engineer, 3-4 regular infantry (2 SS in the North), one horse-drawn 75 light artillery (which I favor over the bigger guns) and a mobile AA unit. My North force also had the scout car from the last scenario in France and a 50 AT. I also had 2 109s, 1 110, 1 FW-190, and 3 Stukas. I linked the three eastern cities by turn 20 and, with the exception of engineers, have wheeled my forces west to mow down the panicky Russian units. My engineers are mobile and I had them planting minefields during the course of my advance along my eastern flank to delay counterattacks. Meanwhile, my non-core units have slowly constricted the western half of the ring around Kiev itself. Now its a Race Against Time to destroy or rout 100 units.

Re: Kiev Scenario in Blitzkreig

Posted: Fri Jan 13, 2017 11:08 pm
by GiveWarAchance
rocklobb: good idea using mobile engineers to plant mines in the east and make a ring. Most probably you can win this time.

Asap: thank you for the screenshot. I would like to see more screenies if you feel like posting more cause I am playing as Japanese now and haven't seen this before. What kind of German tanks are those in the picture?

Re: Kiev Scenario in Blitzkreig

Posted: Fri Jan 13, 2017 11:55 pm
by Asap
You are welcome GiveWarAchance, ok, I will try to share more screenshots to similar topics. You see a PzKw IV F1, a PzKw III J and a PzKw IV E in the picture. My difficulty was III Major btw.