1815 Prussians, which list is better

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CutEmUp
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1815 Prussians, which list is better

Post by CutEmUp » Thu Aug 06, 2015 4:25 am

List #1

Comp Commander

Comp Commander
Large Vet Inf
Large Drilled Inf
Large Landwehr
Small Uhlans
Small Field Artillery
Rifle Skirmish

Comp Commander
Large Vet Inf
Large Drilled Inf
Large Landwehr
Small Hussars
Small Field Artillery
Rifle Skirmish

Comp Commander
Large Landwehr Cav
Large Landwehr Cav
Small Horse Artillery


List 2

Comp Commander

Comp Commander
Small Vet Infantry
Large Landwehr
Small Horse Artillery
Rifle Skirmish Attachment

Comp Commander
Small Vet Infantry
Large Landwehr
Large Field Artillery
Rifle Skirmish Attachment

Comp Commander
Large Drilled Infantry
Large Landwehr
Large Landwehr Cav
Artillery Attachment
Rifle Skirmish Attachment

Comp Commander
Large Drilled Infantry
Large Landwehr
Small Uhlans
Artillery Attachment
Rifle Skirmish Attachment

deadtorius
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Re: 1815 Prussians, which list is better

Post by deadtorius » Fri Aug 07, 2015 9:30 pm

Im currently painting up Prussians, havent used them past 1813 in mixed allied army so far but, here is my 2 cents worth.

I suggest you take a skilled corps commander, you might need the extra point and still want to move him.

I would suggest going with a rifle skrimisher and cavalry attachment in one unit. This allows you to drop the French shooting at you at 6 Mu by 2 dice and if he has cavalry about you still get 3 dice back at him, if no French cav around you get 4 dice.
Large Landwehr is cheap enough, for reformed line its more expensive. You might want to look at dropping some of those line units to small and use the points to buy artillery for your Landwehr, an extra die you don't have to re roll and 2 more non re rolling dice at close range might come in more handy than just being large. Problem we have always found with superior conscripts (early French revolution) is trying to get them to be able to close, even as a large unit. I wouldn't rely on them too much for actually getting in with the bayonet.
You also seem to have missed out on the mandatory field artillery, 4 bases of med and 2 bases of heavy.
Back to the drawing board I guess.
I won't ever take a large battery any more, tried it before it takes up too much room and is too difficult to deal with, but thats just personal.

Just my thoughts. You looking at 800 point list? I didnt try to add it up to see.

CutEmUp
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Re: 1815 Prussians, which list is better

Post by CutEmUp » Fri Aug 07, 2015 9:56 pm

As far as the field artillery goes, check the errata, it's in another thread on here, but the errata for the guard corps was actually meant for the regular army corps

CutEmUp
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Re: 1815 Prussians, which list is better

Post by CutEmUp » Fri Aug 07, 2015 10:01 pm

Main point of the thread was what would you suggest? The big divisions or smaller ones?

I'm leaning towards the big and The list had already evolved before you replied to this

Skilled commander

Competent Commander
Large (AV) Line Infantry
Large (AD) Line Infantry
Large (AC) Landwehr
Small Medium Guns
2x Rifle Attachments

Competent Commander
Large (AV) Line Infantry
Large (AD) Line Infantry
Large (AC) Landwehr
Small Medium Guns
2x Rifle Attachments

Competent Commander
Small (AC Lancer) Landwehr Cav
Small (AC Lancer) Landwehr Cav
Small (AD Lancer) Uhlans
Small Horse Artillery

KeefM
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Re: 1815 Prussians, which list is better

Post by KeefM » Sun Aug 09, 2015 9:10 pm

Hmmmm . . . not sure where to start. Prussians are a good choice for sure. Kendall posted his version some time ago on the forum - and that was a combo that I really really rated ! Definintely worth a look.

What’s your “playing style” ? The key question for you to think about answering is ‘what is your intended approach to the game ?’ If you want to be the attacker and set the shape of the game, then having an exceptional general is definitely the way to go. Then you can gear your army up around attacking. You will get less troops cos of the expense of the general, but there are good compensations for this including the ability to re-roll recovery. But it will mean needing to develop and carry out a good solid attack.

Conversely, what is your approach to defence ? Bigger units are tougher to break down, but are less ‘agile’. Pairing up artillery batteries can cover off a good chunk of table, but these in turn are vulnerable to skirmishing light infantry.

In both cases, I’d question the option with the two large Landwehr cavalry units. Large cavalry units need a bit of space to operate in. And the Landwehr cavalry isn’t exactly ‘top drawer’ :D .

How will you counter opposing cavalry ? Will you try and out-muscle it ? Or shut it out with solid infantry walls ? At the moment, your mix seems to be neither one nor the other.

Large veteran infantry units will always be very tough for your opponents to deal with – whether attacking or defending. But, equally, having such large units as a key part of your army structure will reduce the amount of frontage your army will be able to operate across; so, how you cover their flanks becomes a key area of the game to manage. And then, of course, having spent some many points on such good infantry units, you really will need to make sure you use them to best effect. Gun attachments usually make a good large infantry unit into an even better one IMHO :D !

Also, rifle attachments mean that your infantry shooting against cavalry (or when cavalry is nearby) is much improved. Likewise, cavalry attachments for infantry units mean that they are harder to score hits against and so increase their defensive strength.

But, overall, I’d suggest the first questions to be considering about your army mix is around just how you intend to use it. Far more important IMHO than the actual mix of units.

CutEmUp
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Re: 1815 Prussians, which list is better

Post by CutEmUp » Mon Aug 10, 2015 1:21 pm

My playing style would be agressive.....I don't want to fool around, in with the bayonet immediately.

The Landwehr cav have been reduced to small & the purpose of the cavalry is speedbumps and/or pursuit

KeefM
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Re: 1815 Prussians, which list is better

Post by KeefM » Mon Aug 10, 2015 11:24 pm

Then definintely shell out for the Exceptional Corps commander ! The exceptional corps commander will give you the initiative edge you need to set the shape of the game with the (bonus) re-roll of a recovery test each turn to help keep you in the game.

You only have 3 (weak ish) cavalry units = 3 speed bumps and your army is near done for (at 6/9 ACV to reach 30%) = risky that you get yourself easily picked off by someone even just slightly stronger in cavalry than you. Plus you will need to rely on the 2 large veteran units to carry a scrap pretty quick - in which case you should go for gun attachments for the extra shooting punch.

Also consider dropping an artillery battery. Getting 3 batteries into action in such a way as to open up an opponent's position is tricky - hard enough getting two working together - esp with you needing to rely on your 4 large combat infantry units to 'do the business'.

Short summary from me: having 4 large infantry units will be tough for an opponent to break down - but, you will need to figure out how you get them into contact (or short range shooting) otherwise you will get extended on your flanks.

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Re: 1815 Prussians, which list is better

Post by CutEmUp » Tue Aug 11, 2015 2:49 am

I've also been screwing around with this as an aggressive list, though skilled is the best I can get
Saxon 1812

Skilled Commander

Competent
small Light Infantry
Small Line Infantry
Small Line Infantry
Small Medium Art

Competent
small Light Infantry
Small Line Infantry
Small Line Infantry
Small Horse Art

Competent
Small Vet Chevauleger
Small Vet Chevauleger

Competent
Small Garde du Corps
Small Cuirassiers

KeefM
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Re: 1815 Prussians, which list is better

Post by KeefM » Tue Aug 11, 2015 3:49 am

The link to Kendall's list is here: http://www.slitherine.co.uk/forum/viewt ... 98&t=45499

Seriously, this is a wee gem of a list :D !!

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Re: 1815 Prussians, which list is better

Post by KendallB » Tue Aug 11, 2015 8:10 pm

Only thing though is that I tend to play defensively with that list and CutEmUp wants to play aggressively.

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Re: 1815 Prussians, which list is better

Post by KeefM » Thu Aug 13, 2015 8:26 pm

Yep - well, maybe you do, Kendall :D ! But you are also a fantatsic crafter of army-mixes (IMHO anyhows).

For my two-penneth, if you fancy being aggressive in FoGN, then an exceptional general is the only way to go. Set the shape of the game up from the outset, pick the point of attack and use the exceptional re-roll of recovery to keep your stuff 'in the game' in the contact zone. Big infantry units with guns are the absolute naz; attacking or defending - only provided you can keep them in reasonable cohension shape.

Also, a key decision is how you're going to deal with the 'cavalry duel' . . . either: a) choose to go for it and out-muscle the opposing cavalry (and also think about how to deal with staunch infantry after winning the cavalry arm-wrestle cos it won't be without some losses - my LC "horde" was great at winning the cavalry duel and lousy at doing anything to good infantry); or, b) have the smallest amount of cavalry so that you're not even tempted to enage in a cavalry duel (but do consider how you will neutralise the opposing cavalry). Either way, answering that puzzle goes a long way to determining what overall army mix you need.

The second puzzle to answer that will go a long way to deciding your army mix, is to figure out how you'll keep one or both flanks of your attacking point secure once the defender starts responding.

The reality, in most games of FoGN, is that once you knock a hole in the opposing line the key thing is to open that up asap and the opposing army often folds quite quickly. The longer the game runs on, the more even/balanced it becomes. So, if you want to be an attacking aggressive player then you need to get in on a single point quickly and knock that hole. Also, in most games of FoGN (in my experience), there are a lot of units in both armies that don't end making a big (or any) contribution to the end result. So, figuring out how you want your overall mix of units to work together, given that not all of them are going to contribute equally, is a good starting point. (For example, I find that artillery batteries are way better when operated in pairs, but absolutely need to covered from opposing light infantry - I'm not at all convinced of the merits of having a 3rd battery.)

All "IMHO" of course :D . . . there are plenty of folk who don't subscribe to any of the above and who do extremely well. And who design way smarter army mixes than I'll ever come up with (Kendall :D ).

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