Partizan spam

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Man0lo
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Partizan spam

Post by Man0lo » Sat Sep 02, 2017 12:10 am

Despite "Normal chance for new partisans" is enabled ...there is a huge spam of partisans in the game.... :!: USSR gets 2-3 new partisans each turn and France 1-2...This is unrealistic and makes the game almost unplayable for the Axis player in pbem...especially after the new railway rules... :?

Peter Stauffenberg
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Re: Partizan spam

Post by Peter Stauffenberg » Sat Sep 02, 2017 2:13 pm

That is not my experience. You can sometimes get maybe 4 partisans in a turn, but quite often you get 0 as well. Are you playing against the AI or another player? Partisan spawn chances are different if you are the Axis against the AI. It has been like that since the Vanilla game.

There is a percentage chance per hex for a partisan to spawn. So if you occupy more hexes in Russia then you ger more partisans. How far east have you managed to push the front line in Russia? If you hold the Leningrad, Moscow, Rostov line then you should get about 1 partisan per turn. Maybe slightly more.

Also remember that the spawn chance is significantly higher in cities and other Resources. So if you don't Garrison them then you will get a higher spawn rate. That is done aeliberately to encourage players to garrison occupied cities rather than sending all units to the front line.

Plaid
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Re: Partizan spam

Post by Plaid » Sun Sep 03, 2017 6:08 pm

Partisan spawn chance depends on year, I believe.
If you are in 1944, what you write is pretty average.

Man0lo
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Re: Partizan spam

Post by Man0lo » Thu Sep 07, 2017 11:47 pm

I m playing PBEM and I was in Kazan when I wrote the topic... I realised that most partizans appear during winter time in Russia ... No partizan unit appeared yet for 5 turns now with fair weather.
However I suppose that it would be more realistic if partizans's activity was represented in the game by sabotage actions... like reduction of production and infrastucture points in occupied cities instead of units that marching around the map in groups like regular soldiers...
Partizans werent conquering cities... they were just harassing the enemy.

Peter Stauffenberg
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Re: Partizan spam

Post by Peter Stauffenberg » Fri Sep 08, 2017 3:34 pm

Partisans aren't used to capture cities in GS either. The partisan units are way too weak to capture a garrisoned city. However, they can harass the areas around a city and move into the city itself if not being garrisoned. The threat of partisans being able to gain supply and thus repair losses if they capture Resources should be enough of a deterrent to leave occupied cities empty.

The increases partisan spawn rate in resources means that players actually Garrison their cities or pay the price for not doing so. Still, you only have about 5% chance getting a partisan in an empty city. So if you missed a city then it's rarely a problem. However, if you systematically send Your troops to the front then you will develop a serious partisan problem. Maybe that is not very realistic, but it's not very realistic ignoring rear city garrisoning.

Some partisans actually became decent fighting forces. E. g. in Yugoslavia. So not all of them dealt with sabotage like in France. The partisans contributed a lot in e. g. Russia. See here for details:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet_partisans

Man0lo
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Re: Partizan spam

Post by Man0lo » Sun Mar 04, 2018 1:45 pm

After finishing another game as Axis I comeback in this thread. The rate of new partisans appearing is insane. Each turn 1-2 partisan units were appearing in Poland; 1-2 in Yugoslavia; 3-4 in France; 4-5 in USSR. No matter of the year this was happening during whole game.
Partizan units appear in the size of an Army Corp as any other unit in the game. So it s completely out of any logic of realism to get around 10 new Army Corp Units with 10 strength points every 20 days for free(each turn=20days).How is it possible this number to be organised and equipped in such short time. Who organise them? Who equip them? I repeat they appear as Army Corps ... not as battalions or regiments or brigades.
I know that there were several decent partisan units in WW2 but definately not in this scale.
The most realistic use of partisans in the game would be in the point of committing sabotages. For example production points of occupied cities could be reduced for some turns due to theoritical partisan activities plus some reduction of the total railway capacity of Axis. However I dont know if the mechanics of the game allow such an intervention by the Modders.
An easier way I think to fix the problem of the nonsense partisans spam is to make them appear only with 2 or 3 strength points maximum at least. This would be kinda more realistic.
Peter Stauffenberg wrote: Still, you only have about 5% chance getting a partisan in an empty city.
I can ensure you that Partisans appeared inside Pskov for 3 times in the same year. Plus partisans appeared inside other occupied cities several times in my game. I think the chance is much higher.

pk867
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Re: Partizan spam

Post by pk867 » Sun Mar 04, 2018 7:30 pm

Ok so after you defeated the partisan in Pskov the first time, did you leave a unit behind to hold it?

If not, then you are forgetting to garrison countries.

Man0lo
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Re: Partizan spam

Post by Man0lo » Sun Mar 04, 2018 8:21 pm

pk867 wrote:Ok so after you defeated the partisan in Pskov the first time, did you leave a unit behind to hold it?

If not, then you are forgetting to garrison countries.
I had 4-5 new Partisan Army Corps to deal with behind my lines each turn only in Russia. I had to chase all of them cuz when they get a commander they run like regular units closing your supply lines. If we also consider the new rail capacity rules... it becomes kinda mission impossible for Axis.

Plaid
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Re: Partizan spam

Post by Plaid » Tue Mar 06, 2018 3:13 pm

Partisans don't spawn as corps ever, they all are garrisons.

Man0lo
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Re: Partizan spam

Post by Man0lo » Tue Mar 06, 2018 5:51 pm

Plaid wrote:Partisans don't spawn as corps ever, they all are garrisons.
Garrison units and partisans are represented in game as Army Korps.They also have artillery, antitanks, anti air regiments etc as regular infantry units ... but in less numbers. Plus if u see the names of the Garrison units; they are called "corps"... That why they can be upgraded to paratroopers.
So how is it possibe 4-5 army coprs of partisan to appear every 20 days only in Russia; 2-3 in France etc... That is out of logic and realism.

Peter Stauffenberg
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Re: Partizan spam

Post by Peter Stauffenberg » Tue Mar 06, 2018 8:44 pm

I don't think you garrison your cities properly. Last time I played the Axis I managed to take all of Caucasus and crossed the Volga and still something like 1-2 partisans in Russia per turn. That was in 1943.

The key is to garrison every city and resource hex in Russia. You don't use corps units for this, but mainly garrison units. They are very cheap. I also use Italians and Axis minors for garrisoning the rear cities.

The main reason garrison units are in the game is for them to garrison captured cities. E. g. in France, Greece, Norway and Russia. In Yugoslavia I place a few mountain units to quickly get rid of Tito's partisans there.

If you send all your units to the front you just ask for problems with partisans.

The real Germans could never afford to properly garrison occupied territory. E. g. Germany had at most almost 400.000 soldiers in occupied Norway. I don't think they were placed there just because they were on vacation.

Part of the game balance is for the Axis player to garrison their captured cities. You can decide to e. g. only garrison capitals and fortified cities in countries like Poland, but in Russia you really have to garrison your cities. A not conquered country has twice the spawn chance of a conquered country. So Russia is the worst place to not garrison your cities.

Have you tried building some garrison units and place them in Russian cities? The spawn chance in cities in Russia is 50 times higher than in a clear hex. The normal spawn chance is 6/10000. So an unoccupied city in Russia has 300/10000 = 3% chance of getting a partisan.

If you really want to nerf the partisan war you can doctor the values in general.txt to values you really like. E. g. the max strength of partisans.
/* ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------- */
/* Partisan rules */
/* ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------- */
PARTISAN_CHANCE_CLEAR 6 /* Chance in 10000 per hex */
PARTISAN_CHANCE_CONQUERED 3 /* Chance in 10000 per hex in conquered countries */
PARTISAN_NON_CLEAR_SPAWN_MULTIPLIER 6 /* Multiplies the spawn rate by this number in non clear hexes */
PARTISAN_NON_CONQUERED_RESOURCE_MPL 50 /* Multiplies the spawn rate by this number in unconquered German, UK, US or Russian country city + resource hexes */
PARTISAN_MAJOR_MAX_STRENGTH 10 /* Max strength of major country partisans */
PARTISAN_MAJOR_VARIANCE 7 /* Variance in possible strength of spawned partisan */
PARTISAN_STANDARD_MAX_STRENGTH 10 /* Max strength of large minor country partisans */
PARTISAN_STANDARD_VARIANCE 10 /* Variance in possible strength of spawned partisan */
PARTISAN_MINOR_MAX_STRENGTH 5 /* Max strength of small minor country partisans */
PARTISAN_MINOR_VARIANCE 5 /* Variance in possible strength of spawned partisan */
PARTISAN_GARRISON_CHANCE 100 /* Percent change the partisan will be a garrison instead of corps */

Man0lo
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Re: Partizan spam

Post by Man0lo » Wed Mar 07, 2018 6:06 pm

Peter Stauffenberg wrote:I don't think you garrison your cities properly. Last time I played the Axis I managed to take all of Caucasus and crossed the Volga and still something like 1-2 partisans in Russia per turn. That was in 1943.

The key is to garrison every city and resource hex in Russia. You don't use corps units for this, but mainly garrison units. They are very cheap. I also use Italians and Axis minors for garrisoning the rear cities.

The main reason garrison units are in the game is for them to garrison captured cities. E. g. in France, Greece, Norway and Russia. In Yugoslavia I place a few mountain units to quickly get rid of Tito's partisans there.

If you send all your units to the front you just ask for problems with partisans.

The real Germans could never afford to properly garrison occupied territory. E. g. Germany had at most almost 400.000 soldiers in occupied Norway. I don't think they were placed there just because they were on vacation.

Part of the game balance is for the Axis player to garrison their captured cities. You can decide to e. g. only garrison capitals and fortified cities in countries like Poland, but in Russia you really have to garrison your cities. A not conquered country has twice the spawn chance of a conquered country. So Russia is the worst place to not garrison your cities.

Have you tried building some garrison units and place them in Russian cities? The spawn chance in cities in Russia is 50 times higher than in a clear hex. The normal spawn chance is 6/10000. So an unoccupied city in Russia has 300/10000 = 3% chance of getting a partisan.

If you really want to nerf the partisan war you can doctor the values in general.txt to values you really like. E. g. the max strength of partisans.
/* ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------- */
/* Partisan rules */
/* ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------- */
PARTISAN_CHANCE_CLEAR 6 /* Chance in 10000 per hex */
PARTISAN_CHANCE_CONQUERED 3 /* Chance in 10000 per hex in conquered countries */
PARTISAN_NON_CLEAR_SPAWN_MULTIPLIER 6 /* Multiplies the spawn rate by this number in non clear hexes */
PARTISAN_NON_CONQUERED_RESOURCE_MPL 50 /* Multiplies the spawn rate by this number in unconquered German, UK, US or Russian country city + resource hexes */
PARTISAN_MAJOR_MAX_STRENGTH 10 /* Max strength of major country partisans */
PARTISAN_MAJOR_VARIANCE 7 /* Variance in possible strength of spawned partisan */
PARTISAN_STANDARD_MAX_STRENGTH 10 /* Max strength of large minor country partisans */
PARTISAN_STANDARD_VARIANCE 10 /* Variance in possible strength of spawned partisan */
PARTISAN_MINOR_MAX_STRENGTH 5 /* Max strength of small minor country partisans */
PARTISAN_MINOR_VARIANCE 5 /* Variance in possible strength of spawned partisan */
PARTISAN_GARRISON_CHANCE 100 /* Percent change the partisan will be a garrison instead of corps */
I could easily deal with 1-2 partisans per turn and of course I take care of garrisoning my cities. As I said I was getting 4-5 new partisans per turn only in USSR... Since I was playing pbem vs human my opponent abused this situation. He was giving commanders to all of them so they were able to run fast cutting my supply chains everywhere. Under these circumstances I was coerced to move my garrisons out the cities plus to move back my regular units in order to chase them. The new rules of free commanders and the rail capacity limits ... made impossible for Axis to deal with this number of partisans.
Plus as I saw in another thread of a player complaining of the same issue the reply he got was that the rate of new partisans is random on each game. So in a game there may be only 1 partisan per 2-3 turns and in another countless per turn.http://www.slitherine.com/forum/viewtop ... 18&t=76132
I dont know how to configure the rate of partisans in this text nor their strength points...

Plaid
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Re: Partizan spam

Post by Plaid » Thu Mar 08, 2018 8:20 am

I have just loaded 1942 scenario and skipped 10 turns in hotseat mode.
I've got 13 partisans in USSR (2 of them in ungarrisoned cities), 1 in Yugoslavia and 1 in Poland, strangely 0 in France and Greece.
Those numbers don't look huge and they were always like this according to my experience with the game.

If you occupy ahistorically large portion of USSR territory, you will have more problems with partisans and garrisoning numerous cities. But if you are winning so hard, you probably can afford to send some forces from the front to deal with them.

Man0lo
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Re: Partizan spam

Post by Man0lo » Fri Mar 09, 2018 7:53 pm

@Plaid U were lucky to get only 1.3 partisan per turn in USSR. I was getting 4-5 per turn almost all game long... As it s said before in the thread I posted above ... It s completely random how many partisans will appear on each game.

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