Discussion on CEAW-GS v2.10

[pk867]

Hi Everybody,

I wanted to start a thread on CEAW-GS v2.10

We can discuss map issues, (i.e. incorrectly labeled, balance issues, etc.)

Logic issues concerning different strategies. If player A does this, Is there a logical opposing strategy for player B ?

Or can the player take advantage of his opponent unfairly.

Bugs.

To start, if London is lost, then the Southern Lend Lease 15 PP's go to the UK instead of USSR.

There was a vanilla bug concerning how supply was connected concerning the loss of Spain and Gibraltar to the Axis.

The vanilla game mechanic interfered with CEAW-GS supply levels concerning distance, Rail, and type. This allowed a higher supply level for the Axis units in Egypt and the Middle East . This will be fixed in the next beta update.

Fixed the spawning of the Free French forces near Adagir. If the Axis DoW's on Vichy French the Free French forces are placed in the US force pool.
This prevents the tactic of moving down adjacent to the Free French forces, DoW of the US and destroy the Free French forces at Adagir.
If the game plays historically the Free French will spawn at Adagir.

[Peter Stauffenberg]

We won't be adding new functionality ala diplomatic rules. Such updates are probably better done using a different game engine, like the one used for Lordz'es Commander the Great War.

What we can do, however, is to fix problems we have found with the as is version. These are the current bugs fixed in between v2.10 (the official version) and v2.13 (the latest bug fix).

Please PM me if you want to try out the bugfixes.

V2.11
* Added graphics images for the Slovak corps. It’s needed for some of the later scenarios. It was omitted in the
PC version. These files should be added to the folder ....\Grand Strategy Mod\image\unit\corps

* France surrenders if Paris is vacated after June 1940. This could cause the Allied AI to lose France prematurely.
Changed code so the check is only made if the Allied player is not AI.

* Players got a message about Allied aggression when the Axis attacked Holland if the Allies had earlier attacked
Belgium. Now they won’t get this message

* Canadian reinforcements used to spawn when Belgium was conquered. This was intended for the Axis attack
on Belgium, but forgot the situation where the Allies attack Belgium in September 1939. Then the Canadian
reinforcements would arrive early and not when the Allies are on the run in Belgium. This is now fixed so the
Canadian reinforcements will only arrive at the end of the Axis March 19th 1940 turn if the Allies attacked
Belgium first. If the Axis attack Belgium first the Canadian reinforcements will arrive when Belgium surrenders
as before.

* The game would show a chance for Italian early activation if Belgium was attacked, but not conquered. This
Now this message will only show if there aren’t enough Allied naval units in the Mediterranean and
Belgium is conquered.
* Rail gauge conversion could happen between friendly countries like Persian standard gauge rail being
converted into Russia. This is now fixed so Allied controlled standard gauge rail heads can’t convert
rail into Russian controlled broad gauge hexes and vice versa unless Russia is conquered.

v2.12
* Fixed a bug regarding Russian rail head movement. Bug was introduced in v2.11.

V2.13
* Increasde the number of rail depots / cities needed in Finland / Estonia from 2 to 3 so Finland would never ask for armistice unless Russian troops have captured at least one city / rail depot in core Finland.

* Let the UK southern lend lease route be stopped in London is Axis controlled. Then the 15 PP's will be kept by the UK and not sent to UK. UK would not be in a position to support other major powers with lend lease if have barely enough
PP's to stay above 0 (without convoys).

* Make sure that Free French forces won't be placed on the map as units that can't move if Vichy France is DoW'ed when USA is still neutral (controlling power of the Free French). Instead these Free French units go to the US force pool so they can be safely placed once USA join the war.

* Fixed a vanilla game bug regarding supply level 5 flowing through the Gibraltar port into Africa. Other rules prevented supply level 4-5 in French North Africa and Libya, but not Egypt. So Germany could suddenly get rail supply in Egypt if they had a contiguous like from Egypt to Gibraltar.

[Peter Stauffenberg]

Please post here if you see direct game balance issues as a result of a particular strategy by the Axis or Allies. I don't want to re-open the general discussion about which side has the biggest chance to win. That discussion is over and we think we have a pretty balanced version now.

What we do want to look at are game breaking strategies that make ahistorical results like the one where the Axis move up on the still neutral Free French forces near Agadir and DoW USA just before they would join anyway. Doing this means the Axis can easily finish off the Free French forces because they're sitting ducks on the first turn USA becomes active.

Another such situation was when Finland asked for armistice because the Axis played and bypassed Estonia and rushed the Finnish forces towards Petrozavodsk. That's seems not right either.

So please come up with other situations you've found that means one side can exploit the current game rule to get an ahistorical advantage that was not intended.

Also look at the map and inform about inconsistencies you see. We don't have local knowledge everywhere so they could be areas not very accurately depicted (terrain type etc.).

[GogTheMild]

It seems to be running pretty well to me. I have fix 2.12 and it works fine. 2.13 seems to cover any other issues I have noticed plus some others. A few suggestions.

•If Tehran, and so Persia, is captured by the Axis the southern lend lease should cease, irrespective of whether the Allies hold London. (Perhaps it does already?)

Map issues.

It seems pretty clear to me that some cities are wrongly located. I won’t go into the boring detail of why here (although I would be happy to if anyone is interested), just suggest where I think that they should be relocated to:

• Diyarbakir – 130/52
• Erzurum – 130/47
• Tbilisi - 135/43

I am aware that these changes would affect game play.


The geography of Scotland seems a bit confused, but given that sacrifices have to be made to fit things into the scale of the game map it’s not a bad job. However, the idea that Scotland is one block of rough is a bit of a joke. As someone who has walked and camped over most of Scotland I know that it’s not. About 10 of the rough hexes being converted to clear would make for a much more realistic portrayal. If there is any chance of this being done I would be happy to throw in my suggestions as to which ones. Although 62/15 should be rough. Again I am aware that this will affect game play.


Whilst I have no direct knowledge of the geography of Iran (Persia) I find it difficult to believe that it is as unremittingly ‘rough’ as the game map shows. For example:

•Should there not be a coastal strip of 'clear' from Baku to Bandar-e-Pahlavi?
•There are no Mountains directly east of Tehran.
•The Daryacheh-ye Namak marsh is (was) extensive but is not shown.
•The Zagros Mountains, roughly comparable to the Alps, are shown as ‘rough’.
•There are several broad, cultivated valleys which for military purposes might better be depicted as ‘clear’. Including the Diyala, which I mention specifically because it extends into Iraq.

Again, game play would be affected. But if you do end up fighting in this area, wouldn’t you rather do so on a map which is both more accurate and less boring?

[pk867]

Hi,

If you do not mind taking a screen snap of the map areas. Then mark those hexes to explain what you suggest. I will look at the suggestions and see what we may do.

Thanks.

[Morris]

Maybe I have to report sth about game balance after about twenty 2.1pbems .
May I ?

[Vokt]

Hi,

This is Victor (ex-leridano) with a new Slitherine forum nickname. I have not been participating the forums nor playing this game for a while so I won´t be able to help much about CEAW-GS 2.10 game balance. Anyway, I would like to help in what I can regarding map issues and OOB´s.

Following Scotland map changes suggested above I have found this physical map:

[Kragdob]

There is slight map bug. On of the hexes adjacent to Leningrad is forrest, but it is clear on the graphics. Similarily 2 hexes south of Petrozavodsk 1 hex is swamps but it is shown as clear.

[pk867]

Hi Vokt,
Thanks for the map. We are looking into this area and have made some adjustments from others knowledgeable of
the area.

[pk867]

Kragdob,

You need to go into your files and find your image folder. I am on a Mac so I do not know of the exact path for PC users.
Anyway, once you find the image folder, go into background and backgroundnames folders and delete the following three files from each - map25_nogrid.dat , map50_nogrid.dat , and
map100_nogrid.dat . Relaunch the game. It may seem slow, but the game is creating the smaller map tiles for the game.

All of those hexes you pointed out should be forest.

See if this fixes your issue and let us know.

[GogTheMild]

What I consider to be a very good point from one of my opponents: "I think the Soviets should be able to interdict the Swedish ore [during summer] if there is no Nazi naval presence".

One could argue that this would need a Russian presence outside of the Gulf of Finland; but if the Russians have a BB in Riga, or in Russian occupied Finland, and the Germans have no naval units in the Baltic I don't think that a lot of ore would be moving.

[pk867]

If the Russians declare war on Sweden they can stop it. Sweden was
Neutral and had an agreement with the Germans for the ore.

[GogTheMild]

Why should the Russians have to declare war to interdict the ore in the summer? The Allies don't have to declare war on Norway to interdict it in winter. I can see how you can argue either side of the case; but to argue both at once seems inconsistent.

[GogTheMild]

It is quite possible that I am missing something here. But:

If I am out of supply and capture a city I get supply level 3.

Unless:

The city happens to have a port attached, in which case I only get supply level 1. (Which then increases over time.)

This seems odd.

[Peter Stauffenberg]

Here is info about the Swedish iron ore route:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swedish_ir ... rld_War_II

Reading through here and you will see that the eastern route from Luleå to Germany was actually escorted by Swedish ships. So Russian intervention there would actually require a clash with Sweden and not only Germany.

Britain actually mined Norwegian waters in 1940 to stop the iron ore, thus breaking the Norwegian neutrality. Russia never did anything to stop the eastern route. In order to stop the route you need a considerable naval fleet with warships, mine layers etc. Russia didn't have that. Britain actually thought about entering the Baltic to intervene the eastern route, but it never materialized.

So history shows that the western route was interdicted from time to time while the eastern route was never affected.

So I don't think we make a mistake by letting the eastern iron ore not be interdictable.

[Peter Stauffenberg]

I think we should discuss what would happen in Russia if Turkey was invaded by the Axis. I'm pretty sure Stalin would feel threatened and start mobilizing for war.

So maybe we could let the Russian war effort be immediately increased if Turkey has been attacked. Maybe increase the war effort by 10% if Turkey is still at war with the Axis and up to 100% when Turkey surrenders.

This is similar to USA mobilizing if Axis forces are present in Canada.

It shouldn't be possible for the Axis to just march into Turkey and see the Russians as sitting ducks waiting for Baku to be overrun.

A simple solution could be to activate Russia once Turkey surrenders or if Axis units are present east of a particular hex inside Turkey.

[Kragdob]

I think we should discuss what would happen in Russia if Turkey was invaded by the Axis. I'm pretty sure Stalin would feel threatened and start mobilizing for war.

So maybe we could let the Russian war effort be immediately increased if Turkey has been attacked. Maybe increase the war effort by 10% if Turkey is still at war with the Axis and up to 100% when Turkey surrenders.

This is similar to USA mobilizing if Axis forces are present in Canada.

It shouldn't be possible for the Axis to just march into Turkey and see the Russians as sitting ducks waiting for Baku to be overrun.

A simple solution could be to activate Russia once Turkey surrenders or if Axis units are present east of a particular hex inside Turkey.

Currently in the game USA does not mobilize - it immediately joins the war if Canada is invaded. Which I think is correct.

The option with Turkey is either full USSR mobilization or immediate war - since controlling Turkey meant Germany are very close to Caspian Sea - Stalin would never agreed such strategic threat.

[Cybvep]

I agree about Turkey, but I also think that it's a secondary problem at best ATM, as the Axis invasion of Turkey almost never happens.

There are much more irritating "features", such as blocking units with transports or using air units as roadblocks early on.

[Kragdob]

There are much more irritating "features", such as blocking units with transports or using air units as roadblocks early on.

Yes - those two are the two at the top of my list too!

[Peter Stauffenberg]

Paul has been working on fixing inaccuracies in the Grand Strategy map.

These are the updates made now. Since we have a limited number of terrain types we need to make some simplifications. Some terrain is placed for effect (simulate valleys where infantry units can move fast in otherwise hilly terrain). You see this e. g. in Norway with forest between Oslo and Bergen and Oslo and Trondheim. Those simulate the valleys that the troops used to move along. Most of the hex content is hills (rough), but fast travel was possible using the valleys.

Clear terrain = open terrain where both ground and vehicle movement is fast and simple. Clear terrain is often cultivated, but it can have patches of forest, swamp etc.

Forest terrain = Terrain where ground units could move fast, but not vehicles. Normally it's terrain with lots of vegetation, but it can also be valleys in otherwise hilly terrain. Usually you see significant roads or railroads in such terrain if used as a line of hexes.

Rough terrain = Terrain where no units can move fast. It's usually hilly terrain, but can also be elevated plateau terrain with poor supply possibilities. Usually you don't have good roads or railroad in rough terrain.

Scotland:


Moved Inverness and changed some terrain to have more forest and clear.