Are tanks and mortars too strong in this close combat?

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Sakeoe
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Are tanks and mortars too strong in this close combat?

Post by Sakeoe » Fri Feb 08, 2013 11:17 am

As the thread title says, are tanks and mortars too strong?

My close combat experiences comes mainly from Close Combat: Invasion Normandy (2000) and earlier releases so I haven't played any of the later ones. But in Invasion Normandy for example units weren't so easily killed by mortar fire if they were in cover and not moving. Right now you can clear out units in a house simply with mortar fire as they all flop over within 1 or 2 shots. I haven't been exposed to mortar fire in reall life yet so I can't say how realistic it is but it feels a bit too strong as there isn't really much more you can do to defend yourself against mortar fire but to dig in. If you start running losses are obviously even more severe.

Same for tanks and their explosive rounds. Though tanks might seem stronger because units AT have been greatly reduced. If in Invasion Normandy you drove your tank near enemy infantry it would be pretty much goodnight sweet tank as you got demolished with (rifle) grenades. So you'd have to keep a tactical distance, scout with your own infantry etc. Right now you can just drive your tank infront of enemy units and they flop over. The grenades they trow don't ever seem to damage the tank and even special anti-tank units like a Panzerfaust unit are quickly wiped out without really touching the tank.

Again I don't know how realistic this is, but for me these "issues" are making the game alot less enjoyable than previous versions of close combat. How do other people experience this?

KingHunter3059
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Re: Are tanks and mortars too strong in this close combat?

Post by KingHunter3059 » Mon Feb 11, 2013 6:34 pm

Well - I have been doing a lot of CC, I did the Original, up to and including CC-V (Invasion Normandy). I liked the original Atomic Games version(s), but I have also played the remakes by Matrix and Slitherine, and I enjoy them immensely. The updated versions are very much like CC-PIF and I think very realistic. Mortar fire is indeed devastating and quickly demoralizing. Tanks are intimidating, but in this game set I have seen them destroyed by Infantry, if they hunt alone. So, I guess I don't think it's unrealistic to see the damage, and fear these weapon systems can cause. I think one of the goals in Close Combat is to give you a feel for the terror and nature of combat. Which I think IMO, it does.


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offrench
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Re: Are tanks and mortars too strong in this close combat?

Post by offrench » Thu Dec 26, 2013 12:32 pm

I am quite familiar with the CC Series, having played it since CC2 in the mid 90s. I have played some of the new games and find PiF quite different: the maps appear more "zoomed" that they did in other versions allowing more detailed infantry combat but more difficult tank combats.
The other big difference is the infantry vulnerability you noticed. Squads get mowed down by mortars, artillery and vehicle weapons very fast and are also easily demoralized.
I therefore applied a mod that increases infantry survivability, but it was too strong, a bit like a CC3 Stalingrad mod where infantry was very resistant. I lowered some head armor values a bit and removed body armor for some types of personal and it is now more balanced.

CCjunkie
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Re: Are tanks and mortars too strong in this close combat?

Post by CCjunkie » Sun Jan 05, 2014 3:07 pm

There was a double damage mod for CC2 if I recall correctly that double hardened the infantry to re-balance the game a bit. I believe this was to reflect the very real risk posed to armour by infantry teams in close urban environments. In some ways this version reminds me more of CC2 than Normandy, Bulge or modern weapons.

GiveWarAchance
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Re: Are tanks and mortars too strong in this close combat?

Post by GiveWarAchance » Sun Jan 22, 2017 9:15 am

The allies said up to 75% of their casualties were from mortars, especially in Italy.
I think they are even more lethal in real life than in this game. In Panther fog game, troops moving in the open get plastered good by mortars but if they are hunkered down in cover they are extremely hard to hit with mortars but in real life it isn't that hard cause the shot is falling nearly vertically into fox holes and trenches. The difficult aspect in real life is seeing where the badguys are hunkered down, unlike us with our bird's eye view.
I think this level of mortar damage in the game is just right. If mortars are too weak like in other games, it feels weird. Game designers underestimate mortars a lot cause 'they are small and therefore must be weak', but real life elite soldiers like SAS pack their heavy mortar, plate and rounds with them cause even a few shots can shred the enemy.

As for tanks, I've never thought they were too strong or weak in close combat. The hapless Panzer IVs pop like popcorn and shermans have good firepower but get lit up appropriately. Panthers are tough when hit on the front which is their only strong armor but are easily brewed from the sides and back. And Tigers pack a good punch though seem to brew a little easier than the real ones (going by Close Combat Caen for the Tigers) but I hope they leave them as is.
I think the game settings are good where they are.

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