Upcoming Computer Games Wish List

The latest in release the award winning Close Combat series is 32 bit colour, with improved AI and an enhanced campaign layer.

Moderators: Slitherine Core, Close Combat Moderators

MajVonRyan
Sergeant - Panzer IIC
Sergeant - Panzer IIC
Posts: 194
Joined: Mon Jul 11, 2011 1:47 am

Upcoming Computer Games Wish List

Post by MajVonRyan »

How about a Advanced Squad Leader series of games (or close combat) , set in different theatres of war such as the pacific, Greece etc. It would be great to be able to fight campaigns, controlling a elite unit such as the 101 Airborne (with respect) or other elite formations.

Could Slitherline start a new topic - 'Computer War Game Wish List' - hopefully the feedback received may give Slitherline & Matrix and computer war game developers some ideas. Keep up the good work, looking forward to some more information about 'Close Combat - Panthers in the Fog!!' :D
MajVonRyan
Sergeant - Panzer IIC
Sergeant - Panzer IIC
Posts: 194
Joined: Mon Jul 11, 2011 1:47 am

Re: Upcoming Computer Games Wish List

Post by MajVonRyan »

By the number of posts regarding starting a new topic 'Computer Game Wish List' it appears that the topic is not needed at this time.
Wodin
Administrative Corporal - SdKfz 251/1
Administrative Corporal - SdKfz  251/1
Posts: 147
Joined: Tue May 25, 2010 2:45 pm

Re: Upcoming Computer Games Wish List

Post by Wodin »

I shall give my opinion later today mate.
MajVonRyan
Sergeant - Panzer IIC
Sergeant - Panzer IIC
Posts: 194
Joined: Mon Jul 11, 2011 1:47 am

Re: Upcoming Computer Games Wish List

Post by MajVonRyan »

I would like to see a new Steel Panthers game or 'Steel Tigers - War in the West'. I feel that there is room for both Panzer Corp and Steel Panthers in the slitherine / Matrix collection of games.
MrsWargamer
1st Lieutenant - 15 cm sFH 18
1st Lieutenant - 15 cm sFH 18
Posts: 810
Joined: Thu Apr 03, 2008 3:17 pm
Location: Canada

Re: Upcoming Computer Games Wish List

Post by MrsWargamer »

Me too, although I suspect my view is already a well established comment :)

I'd like to see Steel Panthers replaced, not take the old software and pretend it can be fluffed up and made to work, no, I just want a game of the same scale, same style (top down turn based squad tactical scale) that 'looks' like Steel Panthers. I don't require it to pretend it can beat Steel Panthers at it's own game.

But I do want something more or less the same experience. I don't want 3d real time or any of that supposedly superior stuff, I just want to feel like I am playing Steel Panthers, but without any of the tiring we've all heard it before lament about who 'owns' the code.

I'd like it to be like Panzer Corps in that I don't require every damned nation on the first release, nor every square inch of ground ever fought on for the initial release. Hey I can deal with a base game, and then 5 dollar treats to buy. No I will NOT be interested in listening to the lamentations of a loud few crying about the 'eventual price tag'. This is where I tell those people to just grow a set and stop whining over the price of a burger.

Sure I'd like it to run on a tablet, but frankly, I'd just like that the game be made at all.

I'm tired of all the work arounds the fixes that don't always fix, the solutions that get unsolved every time I reinstall the OS or buy a new computer.
Steel Panthers was the thing that got me to stop saying it wasn't a 'real wargame' if not on a table. It's time though for us to stop beating a 1997 classic to death.

You did it for Panzer General with Panzer Corps, so we know you can do it at all if you wish to.
Stop making us talk about and get someone to just do it.
MajVonRyan
Sergeant - Panzer IIC
Sergeant - Panzer IIC
Posts: 194
Joined: Mon Jul 11, 2011 1:47 am

Re: Upcoming Computer Games Wish List

Post by MajVonRyan »

[quote="DSWargamer"]Me too, although I suspect my view is already a well established comment :)

I'd like to see Steel Panthers replaced, not take the old software and pretend it can be fluffed up and made to work, no, I just want a game of the same scale, same style (top down turn based squad tactical scale) that 'looks' like Steel Panthers. I don't require it to pretend it can beat Steel Panthers at it's own game.


Hi Ds Wargamer,

I agreed a new Steel Panthers is long overdue!
Wodin
Administrative Corporal - SdKfz 251/1
Administrative Corporal - SdKfz  251/1
Posts: 147
Joined: Tue May 25, 2010 2:45 pm

Re: Upcoming Computer Games Wish List

Post by Wodin »

+1 to both of you. Make a new Steel Panthers. Though I can't ever see it happening. For starters Matrix was on the road at one time with Combat Leader only it got scrapped. The biggest disappointed so far from matrix for me was the day that happened.
Wodin
Administrative Corporal - SdKfz 251/1
Administrative Corporal - SdKfz  251/1
Posts: 147
Joined: Tue May 25, 2010 2:45 pm

Re: Upcoming Computer Games Wish List

Post by Wodin »

+1 to both of you. Make a new Steel Panthers. Though I can't ever see it happening. For starters Matrix was on the road at one time with Combat Leader only it got scrapped. The biggest disappointed so far from matrix for me was the day that happened.
MajVonRyan
Sergeant - Panzer IIC
Sergeant - Panzer IIC
Posts: 194
Joined: Mon Jul 11, 2011 1:47 am

Re: Upcoming Computer Games Wish List

Post by MajVonRyan »

Wodin wrote:+1 to both of you. Make a new Steel Panthers. Though I can't ever see it happening. For starters Matrix was on the road at one time with Combat Leader only it got scrapped. The biggest disappointed so far from matrix for me was the day that happened.
Hi Wodin,

I looked for some information re: Combat Leader on the internet and found very little. Could you provide some more information?
MrsWargamer
1st Lieutenant - 15 cm sFH 18
1st Lieutenant - 15 cm sFH 18
Posts: 810
Joined: Thu Apr 03, 2008 3:17 pm
Location: Canada

Re: Upcoming Computer Games Wish List

Post by MrsWargamer »

I can actually field that reply for you (On Combat Leader).

As most know, Matrix Games began around 2000 and had a 'plan'. They were initially known for Steel Panthers World at War a version based on the SP 3 Brigade Combat code.

The problem though was Steel Panthers is 'owned' legally by SSI which is today just a brand name owned by others. There's no real way to make money off of Steel Panthers legally, it has to be given away free (part of the deal basically) and that includes modifications to the code.

Combat Leader was the response to all of us wanting a newer updated experience, alas I guess it was a bridge too far at the time. It was basically attempting to be Steel Panthers reborn, just not legally bound to whomever it is that owns the SSI owned code.

Combat Leader was an attempt to give us squad tactical top down view, turn based wargaming. It showed how spectacular the creation we know of as Steel Panthers really was, as it has yet to be recreated since.
MajVonRyan
Sergeant - Panzer IIC
Sergeant - Panzer IIC
Posts: 194
Joined: Mon Jul 11, 2011 1:47 am

Re: Upcoming Computer Games Wish List

Post by MajVonRyan »

DSWargamer wrote:I can actually field that reply for you (On Combat Leader).

Combat Leader was the response to all of us wanting a newer updated experience, alas I guess it was a bridge too far at the time. It was basically attempting to be Steel Panthers reborn, just not legally bound to whomever it is that owns the SSI owned code.

Combat Leader was an attempt to give us squad tactical top down view, turn based wargaming. It showed how spectacular the creation we know of as Steel Panthers really was, as it has yet to be recreated since.
Hi DSWargamer,
Would there be any reason why Matrix and Slitherine could not combined their skills and complete Combat Leader now? Wodin indicated in a previous (Matrix / Slitherine?) forum posting that the old links to Combat Leader screenshots no longer work. But would anyone have any screenshots of the game during its early development before it was cancelled?

I would like to see either or both Steel Panthers and Combat Leader completed. Any comments from Slitherine or Matrix would be appreciated re: either of these games.
junk2drive
BA Moderator
BA Moderator
Posts: 1478
Joined: Sun May 23, 2010 4:47 pm
Location: Arizona USA -7GMT

Re: Upcoming Computer Games Wish List

Post by junk2drive »

CL looked like Close Combat with hexes.
You can call me junk - and type that with one hand.
MrsWargamer
1st Lieutenant - 15 cm sFH 18
1st Lieutenant - 15 cm sFH 18
Posts: 810
Joined: Thu Apr 03, 2008 3:17 pm
Location: Canada

Re: Upcoming Computer Games Wish List

Post by MrsWargamer »

junk2drive wrote:CL looked like Close Combat with hexes.
Actually the game's graphics were better than Steel Panthers in a variety of ways to look at. I would say they were probably better tha CC graphics.

Google found this old Matrix Games page.

http://www.matrixgames.com/products/284/screenshots/

This page has more data, same screenies.

http://www.matrixgames.com/products/284/details/

It is possible that Matrix Games simply couldn't make some of the novel new twists 'fly', I was not on the inside though so you'd need to ask someone that was.
Wodin
Administrative Corporal - SdKfz 251/1
Administrative Corporal - SdKfz  251/1
Posts: 147
Joined: Tue May 25, 2010 2:45 pm

Re: Upcoming Computer Games Wish List

Post by Wodin »

It looked really good actually. There where some perspective issues in the alpha shots like trams looking way to small (or was it big). However the overall look was really good. The game was going to have medals and promotions and all that.

I wish I'd kept those screenshots as for some reason you can't access the old CL forum section. they where going to follow it up with Close Assault which was going to be realtime and set in the Pacific.

They had some great feature ideas such as radio communications. Those two games where what directed me to the Matrix website. I stumbled across the game webpages and was very excited.

For me it was a missed opportunity to have made a classic and even today if they had pulled it off it would be still played. Infact i imagine they'd still be making expansions.

I couldn't count the amount of times I've seen the same cry go out. We want a new Steel Panthers. A new highly detailed turn based squad scale wargame. We have yet to receive it. I only wish Mr Grigsby and Co would drop the big monster operational games and go back and put the same sort of detail into a new turn based Squad game. They've got WitP and WitE and soon will have WitW. Wargamers ay that scale are very spoilt. I beg them to release Mr Grigsby and Mr Billings for just one game, a new Steel Panthers. Then you can have them back.
junk2drive
BA Moderator
BA Moderator
Posts: 1478
Joined: Sun May 23, 2010 4:47 pm
Location: Arizona USA -7GMT

Re: Upcoming Computer Games Wish List

Post by junk2drive »

There was also a project a few years ago called Steel Tigers that involved members of the SPWAW Depot website and Matrix. That just stopped happening one day and no one knows why or is not talking.
You can call me junk - and type that with one hand.
MajVonRyan
Sergeant - Panzer IIC
Sergeant - Panzer IIC
Posts: 194
Joined: Mon Jul 11, 2011 1:47 am

Re: Upcoming Computer Games Wish List

Post by MajVonRyan »

I found the following comment (below) on the SPWAW website <http://spwaw.com/>

"Matrix Games recently announced that all work on the Combat Leader project has been suspended, and the project is cancelled. However, all is not lost! David Heath, president of Matrix Games, expressed an interest recently, during a dinner meeting with Da Boss and Jreea in New York, in doing additional work on Steel Panthers, to help breathe new life into our favorite game. Could SP:WaW see any future benefit from the work that went into CL? Only time will tell!"

I wonder how old the post was?
MajVonRyan
Sergeant - Panzer IIC
Sergeant - Panzer IIC
Posts: 194
Joined: Mon Jul 11, 2011 1:47 am

Re: Upcoming Computer Games Wish List

Post by MajVonRyan »

DSWargamer wrote:
junk2drive wrote:CL looked like Close Combat with hexes.
Google found this old Matrix Games page. http://www.matrixgames.com/products/284/details/
Hi DSWargamer,

Thanks for the link to the Combat Leader description. I do remember reading it a long time ago. I like the concept of awarding promotion and medals; a good example, is how it was used in Silent Hunters III.

Combat Leader™ is a tactical game of combined arms warfare using two map scales, 50 m and 15m per hex, and 5-10 minutes and 2-3 minutes per turn respectively. It places the player in the role of regimental/brigade or battalion commander with the ability to exercise company or platoon levels of command. Units in the game represent individual tanks and guns, and squads or smaller teams of infantry. Its first part Cross of Iron will put you to the fierce and unforgiving fighting of the Russian Front. Jump in the boots of Axis or Allied commanders and order german, russian, hungarian, polish, finish or italian troops. Features include:Enhanced unit characteristics: experience, training, élan, morale. fatigue, morale state, and suppression. Units have four primary characteristics that remain constant during a battle: experience, training, élan, and morale. They also have three secondary characteristics that change as a battle is fought: fatigue, morale state, and suppression. Each are linked in that the primary characteristics control the way in which secondary characteristics change. Experience and training mitigate fatigue, élan opposes accumulation of suppression, and morale counters swings in morale state. Formations in two types: command formations and maneuver formations. A command formation is a formation gives orders for its subordinate maneuver formations to attain. A maneuver formation is the “group of units” that behaves as a single entity for purposes of command and control. Command formations provide leaders and headquarters that are used to assign orders to maneuver formations. Maneuver formations have five characteristics: initiative, disruption, integrity, exhaustion and organization state. Leaders with enhanced characteristics: command, control, inspiration, motivation and initiative. Combat Leaders, as the name of the game implies are the key to successful game play. While every unit has a “leader” the maneuver formation leaders are the ones that are the position to most affect game play. They have a wide variety of characteristics. Leadership characteristics are the most important. When units suffer from the effects of secondary characteristics, leadership actions can “get them back into the fight”. Command determines the command points a leader gets, unit leaders do not get commands, but this rating carries with them as they get promoted. Control is the characteristic that is checked when attempting to lower formation disruption. Inspiration is checked to change morale state. Motivation is checked to change suppression Initiative is used to allow actions that would otherwise be prohibited; the penalty is the risk of increased disruption form “the left hand no knowing what the right hand is doing”. Doing too much “ad hoc” by initiative without planning and your formation can become disorganized. Leaders also have “core skills” and wide variety of “special abilities”. Core skills include Infantry combat, tank combat, AT gunnery, artillery combat, combined arms combat, and air-ground controller. Special abilities include characteristics that give special bonuses in certain situations like “Tank Hunter” conveying special close assault advantages against tanks, “Scrounger” giving a chance to receive “bonus” ammo, etc.
Wodin
Administrative Corporal - SdKfz 251/1
Administrative Corporal - SdKfz  251/1
Posts: 147
Joined: Tue May 25, 2010 2:45 pm

Re: Upcoming Computer Games Wish List

Post by Wodin »

God it sounded good! hough I think giving it two scales a sort of scale within a scale is where I reckon they came unstuck. If they had just kept it at 50m we may have eventually seen it released.

I wonder now Slitherine is onboard, Slitherine will look into reviving the project, as there is a big customer base out there who'd be interested.
MrsWargamer
1st Lieutenant - 15 cm sFH 18
1st Lieutenant - 15 cm sFH 18
Posts: 810
Joined: Thu Apr 03, 2008 3:17 pm
Location: Canada

Re: Upcoming Computer Games Wish List

Post by MrsWargamer »

Just me speculating, but considering all the time I have in with Steel Panthers I don't think it is too far off the mark.

I think one of the biggest headaches that would face anyone attempting a reborn reincarnated Steel Panthers successor would be just this one detail. Today, right now, this moment, if you can get Steel Panthers to run on your computer of choice and method preferred, you can play out a battle with just about any nation you can imagine that had even the slightest involvement with the war. In addition, you can fight out almost any obscure engagement you can think up. And lastly, with the modern version, you can fight out from almost WW1 through to yesterday's news head lines with one of the versions out there.

Sooooooo the challenge is how do you release a game, that is humanly doable even if you had the original software people strapped to chairs held prisoner, to recreate a game that leaves out no nation, no vehicle or supporting equipment, no squad type, no time period and no location actually fought over. Because the fans will whine if you leave out the western front and do the eastern front. They'll cry rivers is you do the western front and not the eastern front. And you will have those demanding the Pacific, and the Med fronts. And of course they won't understand if you do it as a single nation specific release ie only playing the Axis and not the Allies.

Me personally, I don't think it is possible to release Steel Panthers today like it was in the mid 90s. Different world and different time. I'd be happy to get just the equal of a Mega Campaign released with brand new code. Shit I think I'd feel like I was trapped with a room full of working girls and a million bucks if they released one of the Mega Campaigns done to entirely new code not beholding to the old game that no one can own.

It's not like every wargame released has to be all inclusive, nothing left out and no expansions ever required.
It's not like we real wargamers will ever find any real problem with spending 40 bucks on a wargame product every damned month of the year.
Sure we have cheap skates in our hobby. Every hobby has cheap skates that want it for less, want it on sale a month after release, want it so they never have to ever spend a cent on it ever again.

I'm not one of those people.

I'd be more than willing to spend on my interests, even if it meant eventually spending a few hundreds of bucks on a single game.
But then again, I play Advanced Squad Leader (well I have the game at least hehe). I am not averse to spending money.
And I couldn't really say I'd have a problem if Slitherine ended up making good money in the process :)
MajVonRyan
Sergeant - Panzer IIC
Sergeant - Panzer IIC
Posts: 194
Joined: Mon Jul 11, 2011 1:47 am

Re: Upcoming Computer Games Wish List

Post by MajVonRyan »

Wodin wrote:God it sounded good! hough I think giving it two scales a sort of scale within a scale is where I reckon they came unstuck. If they had just kept it at 50m we may have eventually seen it released.

I wonder now Slitherine is onboard, Slitherine will look into reviving the project, as there is a big customer base out there who'd be interested.
Hi Wodin,

I agreed, there are a lot of gamers that would buy the game!
Post Reply

Return to “Close Combat - Panthers in the Fog”