Ignorance is not bliss... Basic Training
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- Sergeant - 7.5 cm FK 16 nA
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Ignorance is not bliss... Basic Training
Greetings all,
Well that was a pain. Took almost three days, in between map sessions, to finally figure this out. Couldn't find this covered in here, so it must be old common knowledge.
To preface, I use in-game editors/tools well, but have never in my 56 years used a spreadsheet. House painters don't use comps on the job. I can use an actual brush but not a digital one, so no new models.
All the stickies and threads discuss viewing and changing files, but not HOW to do it. The equipment file columns would not align for me in text viewers. Downloaded apps and tried everything. Opening directly into a spreadsheet app gave me gibberish. Found the cure, so thought I would share in case someone else is as forehead-slapping stupid as myself.
-----------------
Aligning equipment file columns -
Open the equipment file in Notepad or text viewer.
Copy All.
Open spreadsheet and select upper left corner empty box/field.
Paste.
---------------------
Ahhhhhh. Everything spaced and lined up perfectly, with lots of room to see what I am doing. It's the little joys in life...
Some of the very basic knowledge needed appears to be common knowledge here and I am struggling a bit with the learning curve in places.
If other experienced designers can remember any more of these basic-training tidbits that "everyone" knows, please feel free to add them. I have been, and continue, looking through stickies and using search. Like a list of every allowable trait(ex. air embark for airfields), and its designation in file, for units and terrain. Basic dictionary.
One may not be able to fix stupid, but ignorance is another matter...
Well that was a pain. Took almost three days, in between map sessions, to finally figure this out. Couldn't find this covered in here, so it must be old common knowledge.
To preface, I use in-game editors/tools well, but have never in my 56 years used a spreadsheet. House painters don't use comps on the job. I can use an actual brush but not a digital one, so no new models.
All the stickies and threads discuss viewing and changing files, but not HOW to do it. The equipment file columns would not align for me in text viewers. Downloaded apps and tried everything. Opening directly into a spreadsheet app gave me gibberish. Found the cure, so thought I would share in case someone else is as forehead-slapping stupid as myself.
-----------------
Aligning equipment file columns -
Open the equipment file in Notepad or text viewer.
Copy All.
Open spreadsheet and select upper left corner empty box/field.
Paste.
---------------------
Ahhhhhh. Everything spaced and lined up perfectly, with lots of room to see what I am doing. It's the little joys in life...
Some of the very basic knowledge needed appears to be common knowledge here and I am struggling a bit with the learning curve in places.
If other experienced designers can remember any more of these basic-training tidbits that "everyone" knows, please feel free to add them. I have been, and continue, looking through stickies and using search. Like a list of every allowable trait(ex. air embark for airfields), and its designation in file, for units and terrain. Basic dictionary.
One may not be able to fix stupid, but ignorance is another matter...
Re: Ignorance is not bliss... Basic Training
I feel your pain This game has been around (and modded) for so long, much of the information is assumed to be known.
FYI: Most of the data files (such as, equipment, efx & others) can be directly opened in a spreadsheet, no need to copy and paste; you just need to use the correct settings. I'm using OpenOffice right now with the "Unicode" character set and the "Separated by Tab" box checked. Works like a charm. Looks like this: Disclaimer: always keep a copy of the original
Hope that helps.
FYI: Most of the data files (such as, equipment, efx & others) can be directly opened in a spreadsheet, no need to copy and paste; you just need to use the correct settings. I'm using OpenOffice right now with the "Unicode" character set and the "Separated by Tab" box checked. Works like a charm. Looks like this: Disclaimer: always keep a copy of the original
Hope that helps.
Re: Ignorance is not bliss... Basic Training
And you mentioned traits, so here's a list copied from a post originally by ThvN:
Unit Traits
beng: bridge engineer, allows other units to use this unit as a bridge to cross rivers.
backfire: used to flip the unit icon when firing (used for British portee anti-tank guns).
bonus: unit is an SE unit and cannot be purchased normally; these units are awarded randomly.
camo: unit can only be spotted when an enemy unit gets adjacent to it (used for minefield).
captureflag: inverts predefined class ability to capture flags. Infantry/tank/recon/AT lose it, other classes gain it.
fortkiller: unit has +5 attack strength bonus when attacking structures.
glider: used for gliders.
green: unit always starts with 0 (zero) experience, even if scenario settings tell otherwise (used for Soviet conscript).
kamikaze: unit dies after making an attack. Used for German V1 and V2 weapons.
meng: unit ignores effects of entrenchment when attacking.
minefield: used for minefields, which have special rules (camo, no spotting, take 1 casualty each attack, always inflicts at least one casualty).
minekiller: normally minefields lose only a single strength point from attacks, but a unit with this trait will (AFAIK) inflict kills according to normal combat damage calculations.
minesweeper: unit can clear a minefield with a single attack.
missile: air unit does not refuel on friendly airfields. Used for German V1 and V2 weapons.
nopurchase: is not listed in purchase menu.
noupgrade: cannot be upgraded.
noreplace: cannot be replaced.
nozoc: unit does not exert zone of control (used for minefields).
para: unit can be parachuted from air transports.
primary: used for switchable units to indicate the main unit that is used for purchasing, upgrading, deploying, etc.
radar: unit gives air units in spotting range a +1 initiative bonus.
reconmove: inverts predefined class ability to use recon type movement.
Traits which have no effect:
alpine: no effect, used for mountain units, is represented by different movement type.
close: no effect, used for infantry, is now a class bonus for all infantry units.
carpb: (‘carpet bombing’), no effect, used for level (strategic) bombers, possibly what became the ‘Strategic Bombing’ class bonus for level bombers to reduce prestige/turn flags neutral.
lsup: ‘lower (reduce) supply’ , no effect, used for level (strategic) bombers, is now a class bonus for level bombers.
fixedt: (‘fixed turret’), no effect, is replaced by a class bonus for AT units.
rott: (‘rotating turret’), no effect, is replaced by a class bonus for tanks.
Unit Traits
beng: bridge engineer, allows other units to use this unit as a bridge to cross rivers.
backfire: used to flip the unit icon when firing (used for British portee anti-tank guns).
bonus: unit is an SE unit and cannot be purchased normally; these units are awarded randomly.
camo: unit can only be spotted when an enemy unit gets adjacent to it (used for minefield).
captureflag: inverts predefined class ability to capture flags. Infantry/tank/recon/AT lose it, other classes gain it.
fortkiller: unit has +5 attack strength bonus when attacking structures.
glider: used for gliders.
green: unit always starts with 0 (zero) experience, even if scenario settings tell otherwise (used for Soviet conscript).
kamikaze: unit dies after making an attack. Used for German V1 and V2 weapons.
meng: unit ignores effects of entrenchment when attacking.
minefield: used for minefields, which have special rules (camo, no spotting, take 1 casualty each attack, always inflicts at least one casualty).
minekiller: normally minefields lose only a single strength point from attacks, but a unit with this trait will (AFAIK) inflict kills according to normal combat damage calculations.
minesweeper: unit can clear a minefield with a single attack.
missile: air unit does not refuel on friendly airfields. Used for German V1 and V2 weapons.
nopurchase: is not listed in purchase menu.
noupgrade: cannot be upgraded.
noreplace: cannot be replaced.
nozoc: unit does not exert zone of control (used for minefields).
para: unit can be parachuted from air transports.
primary: used for switchable units to indicate the main unit that is used for purchasing, upgrading, deploying, etc.
radar: unit gives air units in spotting range a +1 initiative bonus.
reconmove: inverts predefined class ability to use recon type movement.
Traits which have no effect:
alpine: no effect, used for mountain units, is represented by different movement type.
close: no effect, used for infantry, is now a class bonus for all infantry units.
carpb: (‘carpet bombing’), no effect, used for level (strategic) bombers, possibly what became the ‘Strategic Bombing’ class bonus for level bombers to reduce prestige/turn flags neutral.
lsup: ‘lower (reduce) supply’ , no effect, used for level (strategic) bombers, is now a class bonus for level bombers.
fixedt: (‘fixed turret’), no effect, is replaced by a class bonus for AT units.
rott: (‘rotating turret’), no effect, is replaced by a class bonus for tanks.
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- Sergeant - 7.5 cm FK 16 nA
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- Joined: Sun Feb 01, 2015 6:56 pm
Re: Ignorance is not bliss... Basic Training
Thank you very much. Just the kind of thing I need. I knew there had to easier ways to do things.
If the "camo" trait can be transferred to a unit, then I can make my Partisans. Weak, no zone of control, but can block a rail line and hurt a troop train. Battle on their terms, then "mountain" move back into terrain.
If there is a terrain modification/trait list that shows how to modify terrain and/or make new terrain types, that would be a wonderful help as well. This project has to be "mod", so may as well do it right. I need those non-combat airfields and village railway stations.
It apparently also has to be a campaign, to allow for player purchase and deploy. Got that part covered. "First" battle is the main one. Battle outcome determines location and force totals for the final smaller battle.
If the "camo" trait can be transferred to a unit, then I can make my Partisans. Weak, no zone of control, but can block a rail line and hurt a troop train. Battle on their terms, then "mountain" move back into terrain.
If there is a terrain modification/trait list that shows how to modify terrain and/or make new terrain types, that would be a wonderful help as well. This project has to be "mod", so may as well do it right. I need those non-combat airfields and village railway stations.
It apparently also has to be a campaign, to allow for player purchase and deploy. Got that part covered. "First" battle is the main one. Battle outcome determines location and force totals for the final smaller battle.
Re: Ignorance is not bliss... Basic Training
Check out the terrain file in the data folder, it can be opened in a spreadsheet as well. You'll notice the traits "railemb" and "airemb". You should be able to make new terrain types with just those traits to do what you want. I've never modded terrain before so I am no expert, maybe someone else can give you more information.AnalogGamer wrote: If there is a terrain modification/trait list that shows how to modify terrain and/or make new terrain types, that would be a wonderful help as well. This project has to be "mod", so may as well do it right. I need those non-combat airfields and village railway stations.
You should know that some files are loaded into the game at different times. Changes to the efx file and unit graphic changes can show up mid-scenario. Changes to the equipment file only show up when you start a new scenario. Changes to the movement file seem to only take effect at the beginning of a new campaign (more testing needed). I'm not sure how the terrain file works with regards to that. But keep that in mind when you are testing your changes. I wasted a lot of time trying to figure out why my modifications weren't working/showing-up only to find that it was more about when the new info is referenced by the game.
Happy modding!
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- Sergeant - 7.5 cm FK 16 nA
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Re: Ignorance is not bliss... Basic Training
Thanks for that info. That could have been some seriously wasted time.
While creating the map, I ponder units.
Since I am making this a modification, I had a thought.
Is there a way to modify the "radar" trait to give its +1 initiative bonus to ground units? I wish to create a low-strength divisional HQ, that can boost any ground unit in sight. Simulating the great generals. If a hero is given to a unit at start, the player may just use it somewhere else. Looking for a force multiplier.
Probably not possible, but never hurts to ask.
I am already planning on modifying a Fort for each side to carry the stock trait for air support. Protection for the rear area depots.
Does the radar trait stack if overlap occurs?
Thanks for any help.
While creating the map, I ponder units.
Since I am making this a modification, I had a thought.
Is there a way to modify the "radar" trait to give its +1 initiative bonus to ground units? I wish to create a low-strength divisional HQ, that can boost any ground unit in sight. Simulating the great generals. If a hero is given to a unit at start, the player may just use it somewhere else. Looking for a force multiplier.
Probably not possible, but never hurts to ask.
I am already planning on modifying a Fort for each side to carry the stock trait for air support. Protection for the rear area depots.
Does the radar trait stack if overlap occurs?
Thanks for any help.
Re: Ignorance is not bliss... Basic Training
Yes, it stacks. I don't believe its possible to create a similar effect for ground units though.AnalogGamer wrote: Does the radar trait stack if overlap occurs?
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- Sergeant - 7.5 cm FK 16 nA
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Re: Ignorance is not bliss... Basic Training
I found the terrain.pzdat file. That is just info from what I can see, and incomplete at that. No mention of what "glow" means. Where might the actual terrain be? How would one go about creating a new terrain type to insert into the game? Is that even possible? I have found tutorials on making units and campaigns, but not terrain.
I wish to create two distinct terrains...
A "depot" or "village" that has the "railemb" trait, but not the "close" or "grndsup" traits.. A smaller version of a city that allows trains to load and unload. Trying to keep the clutter of urban areas down a bit if possible.
An "airstrip" that has the airemb but NOT the airsup traits. Not every airfield should have the facilities to re-arm military craft. Also wish to de-clutter, but retain the ability to load and unload ground units.
If it is impossible to add terrain, is it possible to alter existing terrain? I am not using any bocage, so could alter that to my airstrip.
Any information or assistance would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks for your attention, and please excuse my ignorance. I am using search.
I wish to create two distinct terrains...
A "depot" or "village" that has the "railemb" trait, but not the "close" or "grndsup" traits.. A smaller version of a city that allows trains to load and unload. Trying to keep the clutter of urban areas down a bit if possible.
An "airstrip" that has the airemb but NOT the airsup traits. Not every airfield should have the facilities to re-arm military craft. Also wish to de-clutter, but retain the ability to load and unload ground units.
If it is impossible to add terrain, is it possible to alter existing terrain? I am not using any bocage, so could alter that to my airstrip.
Any information or assistance would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks for your attention, and please excuse my ignorance. I am using search.
Re: Ignorance is not bliss... Basic Training
It is possible to add new terrain types to the existing ones, but it requires more editing. Just out of my head now: besides editing the terrain.pzdat file you also need to edit the strings.pzdat (to give the new terrain a name that the game uses), the movement.pzdat (the new terrain type has to be added to each movement type like leg, wheeled, tracked, etc. to specify how units with those movement can move over it), and it needs a new graphic added to the terrain.png file (which is in "\Panzer Corps\Graphics\Editor\" folder) to distinguish it from the other existing terrain types.
So I think for a new modder it is easier to just edit an existing and unused terrain type. Bocage is a good example if you do not use it, but you might also use Jungle, Escarpment, or the Desert terrain types (unless of course you use any of these in your map). Needless to say, before doing any such editing you should make a copy of the original files, or even better if start to use JSGME for installing the mod later. In that case you just make a copy of the original files in the same folder structure for your mod and you will start editing them. Then, when you are ready with your mod you can use JSGME tool to install and remove the mod without corrupting the original game files.
As for "glow" - it means that terrain types with this trait will "glow" or "shine" if terrain glow is enabled in the in-game menu:
as it says it is used by the game for certain terrains like cities or forests so that units standing on these terrains stand out more from the background.
IDS_TRN_DESERT lowsup 100 0
and modify it to:
IDS_TRN_DESERT railemb 100 0
then it will pretty much act like a desert terrain with the only difference that it will no longer give lower supply and you will be able to embark and disemark units from the railroad which goes through it. Note that while editing these game files you have to be careful to use the "TAB" to move between the entries in a line and not "Space" otherwise you will mess it up and the game will not understand it correctly. So it should be like:
IDS_TRN_DESERT"TAB"railemb"TAB"100"TAB"0
but in this case it is enough if you just edit "lowsup" to "railemb" as the "TAB" alignement is already correct. Just keep in mind that alignement is always important in these game files as the game reads them like this:
1st entry: name of the terrain type (IDS_TRN_DESERT) - or more precisely the game will look for this entry in the strings.pzdat file to find the actual name (desert)
2nd entry: traits (if any)
3rd entry: initiative cap (in this case 100)
4th entry: base entrenchment (in this case 0)
and the entries are separated by a "TAB". If this order is not kept the game will mix them up and it may lead to errors. For example, if you make it like this:
IDS_TRN_DESERT"TAB""TAB"railemb"TAB"100"TAB"0
then the game will think that the 2nd entry is empty (no terrain traits given after the first "TAB"), will unable to decode "railemb" as there should be a number after the second tab and will think that the base entrenchment is 100 (when it should be 0 in this case).
IDS_TRN_DUNES airemb 100 0
than it should do the trick.
Obviously, you can use "bocage" as well, but in that case you will also need to edit the movement.pzdat file as units normally move very slowly through the bocage terrain so you will want to negate this effect. Actually, if you use "desert" and "dunes" you should do the same as well, as those terrain types also slow down units more than cities or airports. So you should go through all the movement types in the movement.pzdat file and give the same movement costs to the edited terrain types as they have in city and airport. Then no one will notice any difference in the game.
Ah, and on final thought, you will also need to edit the map string name of the edited terrain type so that players will see "Train station" instead of "bocage" or "dunes" or whatever:
Have fun!
So I think for a new modder it is easier to just edit an existing and unused terrain type. Bocage is a good example if you do not use it, but you might also use Jungle, Escarpment, or the Desert terrain types (unless of course you use any of these in your map). Needless to say, before doing any such editing you should make a copy of the original files, or even better if start to use JSGME for installing the mod later. In that case you just make a copy of the original files in the same folder structure for your mod and you will start editing them. Then, when you are ready with your mod you can use JSGME tool to install and remove the mod without corrupting the original game files.
As for "glow" - it means that terrain types with this trait will "glow" or "shine" if terrain glow is enabled in the in-game menu:
as it says it is used by the game for certain terrains like cities or forests so that units standing on these terrains stand out more from the background.
ok, so all you need to do is to is for example find the desert terrain type in the terrain.pzdat:A "depot" or "village" that has the "railemb" trait, but not the "close" or "grndsup" traits
IDS_TRN_DESERT lowsup 100 0
and modify it to:
IDS_TRN_DESERT railemb 100 0
then it will pretty much act like a desert terrain with the only difference that it will no longer give lower supply and you will be able to embark and disemark units from the railroad which goes through it. Note that while editing these game files you have to be careful to use the "TAB" to move between the entries in a line and not "Space" otherwise you will mess it up and the game will not understand it correctly. So it should be like:
IDS_TRN_DESERT"TAB"railemb"TAB"100"TAB"0
but in this case it is enough if you just edit "lowsup" to "railemb" as the "TAB" alignement is already correct. Just keep in mind that alignement is always important in these game files as the game reads them like this:
1st entry: name of the terrain type (IDS_TRN_DESERT) - or more precisely the game will look for this entry in the strings.pzdat file to find the actual name (desert)
2nd entry: traits (if any)
3rd entry: initiative cap (in this case 100)
4th entry: base entrenchment (in this case 0)
and the entries are separated by a "TAB". If this order is not kept the game will mix them up and it may lead to errors. For example, if you make it like this:
IDS_TRN_DESERT"TAB""TAB"railemb"TAB"100"TAB"0
then the game will think that the 2nd entry is empty (no terrain traits given after the first "TAB"), will unable to decode "railemb" as there should be a number after the second tab and will think that the base entrenchment is 100 (when it should be 0 in this case).
I am not so sure about it, but if you edit e.g. the dunes (assuming that you do not use it) like this:An "airstrip" that has the airemb but NOT the airsup traits. Not every airfield should have the facilities to re-arm military craft. Also wish to de-clutter, but retain the ability to load and unload ground units.
IDS_TRN_DUNES airemb 100 0
than it should do the trick.
Obviously, you can use "bocage" as well, but in that case you will also need to edit the movement.pzdat file as units normally move very slowly through the bocage terrain so you will want to negate this effect. Actually, if you use "desert" and "dunes" you should do the same as well, as those terrain types also slow down units more than cities or airports. So you should go through all the movement types in the movement.pzdat file and give the same movement costs to the edited terrain types as they have in city and airport. Then no one will notice any difference in the game.
Ah, and on final thought, you will also need to edit the map string name of the edited terrain type so that players will see "Train station" instead of "bocage" or "dunes" or whatever:
Have fun!
slitherine.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=147&t=47985
slitherine.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=147&t=36969
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- Sergeant - 7.5 cm FK 16 nA
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- Joined: Sun Feb 01, 2015 6:56 pm
Re: Ignorance is not bliss... Basic Training
Thanks very much! Concise and understandable.
I can use overlays to change appearance, and strings to let players know that the airstrip is not an airfield.
The "station" overlay will have to work for my non-city train stations. Will need to label each hex with a string to let players know, since those stations are TINY.
I am using a spreadsheet in tab-delineated mode, so editing should be ok. Just change the proper field.
Score! This is going to actually happen.
Does anyone out there make custom terrain? Is there a digital artist out there that may already have an airstrip or village .png that can be slotted into the file?
Wonderful community with very helpful and supportive folks.
P.S. Somehow I forgot how to take a screenshot in the editor. Had it down a few weeks ago, and it escapes me now. Hate getting older. Tried prntscrn with and without other keys.
I can use overlays to change appearance, and strings to let players know that the airstrip is not an airfield.
The "station" overlay will have to work for my non-city train stations. Will need to label each hex with a string to let players know, since those stations are TINY.
I am using a spreadsheet in tab-delineated mode, so editing should be ok. Just change the proper field.
Score! This is going to actually happen.
Does anyone out there make custom terrain? Is there a digital artist out there that may already have an airstrip or village .png that can be slotted into the file?
Wonderful community with very helpful and supportive folks.
P.S. Somehow I forgot how to take a screenshot in the editor. Had it down a few weeks ago, and it escapes me now. Hate getting older. Tried prntscrn with and without other keys.
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- 1st Lieutenant - 15 cm sFH 18
- Posts: 818
- Joined: Sun Dec 04, 2016 6:47 am
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Re: Ignorance is not bliss... Basic Training
For example you can use this unit.AnalogGamer wrote: Does anyone out there make custom terrain? Is there a digital artist out there that may already have an airstrip or village .png that can be slotted into the file?
When im died - I must be a killed.
Re: Ignorance is not bliss... Basic Training
For your train station only hexes you can use the one made by Intenso82:
The black locomotive he made is basically a marker (the same category used for special hexes):
Note that terrain graphics files are located in the "\Panzer Corps\Graphics\Tiles\" folder. These are all in .png format which should be known by any graphic editor like Photoshop or the free GIMP (the one I am using as well)
The actual train station graphic (seen "under" the black locomotive icon layer) is made by Massi - he is a very talented graphic editor and made a bunch of custom terrain graphics for PzC. For example he also made several graphic icons for vilages:
His graphics are incorporated to Intenso's mod:
http://www.slitherine.com/forum/viewtop ... 47&t=75743
The black locomotive he made is basically a marker (the same category used for special hexes):
Note that terrain graphics files are located in the "\Panzer Corps\Graphics\Tiles\" folder. These are all in .png format which should be known by any graphic editor like Photoshop or the free GIMP (the one I am using as well)
The actual train station graphic (seen "under" the black locomotive icon layer) is made by Massi - he is a very talented graphic editor and made a bunch of custom terrain graphics for PzC. For example he also made several graphic icons for vilages:
His graphics are incorporated to Intenso's mod:
http://www.slitherine.com/forum/viewtop ... 47&t=75743
Last edited by McGuba on Mon Mar 05, 2018 1:24 pm, edited 2 times in total.
slitherine.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=147&t=47985
slitherine.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=147&t=36969
Re: Ignorance is not bliss... Basic Training
Sure, but that one is a unit icon (even though it could be modified to a terrain graphic icon).Yrfin wrote:For example you can use this unit.AnalogGamer wrote: Does anyone out there make custom terrain? Is there a digital artist out there that may already have an airstrip or village .png that can be slotted into the file?
But I was thinking something similar, i.e. by editing the stock airfield icon and erasing all the structures to create a "bare" airstrip, like this:
I made this modification in a few seconds and I can add it to the terrain graphic file (LayerTerrain.png) easily if you like it.
slitherine.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=147&t=47985
slitherine.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=147&t=36969
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- 1st Lieutenant - 15 cm sFH 18
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Re: Ignorance is not bliss... Basic Training
Hi McGuba!
Thanks for implementation but
Thanks for implementation but
What for ? Cant understandMcGuba wrote: But I was thinking something similar, i.e. by editing the stock airfield icon and erasing all the structures to create a "bare" airstrip, like this:
When im died - I must be a killed.
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- Sergeant - 7.5 cm FK 16 nA
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Re: Ignorance is not bliss... Basic Training
Awesome folks! Thanks so much.
That stripped-down airstrip is perfect. I can use it as an overlay on modified escarpment.
The station is very nice as well. Modified Bocage overlay.
I figured that these items would be hanging around on someone's hard drive after all these years.
The only custom unit that I am working on are Partisans. There is a .png for them in the custom unit thread. I am altering Mountain troops to make them. Have not yet done it or tested, but am hopeful since the terrain is going so smoothly(thanks to you great people).
Partisans - Strengths - "camo" for concealment(used to be a PG "hero"), no zone of control for same(can move right past it, also an old PG unit trait), mountain move with a move of 4, spot of 3, Weaknesses - 6-7 max strength, low attack numbers, no purchase, no replacements(maybe).
Ninjas who strike and fade back into terrain. Train stoppers. Hard to hunt down, but you have to or they come back. A weak unit that ties down strong ones. The essence of partisans.
They will pop up as reinforcements as the battle progresses, appearing in woods/swamps/etc., behind enemy lines. Can't make them purchase-able or someone would buy a ninja division, or I would have to make them expensive.
-----
Thanks again folks. This is a wealth of info that is perfect for what I am doing. Went from a map, to a scenario, to a campaign, to a modded campaign. Lovin' it.
That stripped-down airstrip is perfect. I can use it as an overlay on modified escarpment.
The station is very nice as well. Modified Bocage overlay.
I figured that these items would be hanging around on someone's hard drive after all these years.
The only custom unit that I am working on are Partisans. There is a .png for them in the custom unit thread. I am altering Mountain troops to make them. Have not yet done it or tested, but am hopeful since the terrain is going so smoothly(thanks to you great people).
Partisans - Strengths - "camo" for concealment(used to be a PG "hero"), no zone of control for same(can move right past it, also an old PG unit trait), mountain move with a move of 4, spot of 3, Weaknesses - 6-7 max strength, low attack numbers, no purchase, no replacements(maybe).
Ninjas who strike and fade back into terrain. Train stoppers. Hard to hunt down, but you have to or they come back. A weak unit that ties down strong ones. The essence of partisans.
They will pop up as reinforcements as the battle progresses, appearing in woods/swamps/etc., behind enemy lines. Can't make them purchase-able or someone would buy a ninja division, or I would have to make them expensive.
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Thanks again folks. This is a wealth of info that is perfect for what I am doing. Went from a map, to a scenario, to a campaign, to a modded campaign. Lovin' it.
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- Sergeant - 7.5 cm FK 16 nA
- Posts: 210
- Joined: Sun Feb 01, 2015 6:56 pm
Re: Ignorance is not bliss... Basic Training
Since you are all so helpful, you aught to get a peek at what all the fuss is about... at 136x96 hexes of map total, this is just a slice...
One line in a thread I read pointed me to using coasts inland for elevation contour lines. Score! Hard to even look at stock maps now. I only wish it costs a move point to cross them at right angles. Then I could get really sadistic.
One line in a thread I read pointed me to using coasts inland for elevation contour lines. Score! Hard to even look at stock maps now. I only wish it costs a move point to cross them at right angles. Then I could get really sadistic.
Re: Ignorance is not bliss... Basic Training
Nice work with those maps. I also used those coast terrains to give some more depth to my maps earlier. Unfortunately it is not possible to give movement or defense penalties to units "climbing" them. So it is only cosmetics but looks cool, anyway.
As for partisans, I have been using them for some time as well in my Battlefield: Europe mod, pretty much the same way as you described, with the only exception that I did not give them mountain movement (since most appear in forests or swamps). However, on a second thought, I think they would deserve their own movement type as mountain movement makes them only faster on mountain terrain, but not in swamps or forests. And as we know those Soviet partisans were very active in the Pripet marshes and in the dense Bryansk forests. I think it would be fun to make them move faster in these terrains, too, so that the enemy player gets a serious headache when chasing them.
The only problem is, partisans in general are already quite unpopular in my mod: most players hate them for a reason, and if they become even more flexible this will get only worse. But hey, after all this is guerilla warfare, they are weaker than any regular unit so they need something as a compensation.
Another option is to perhaps give them the "recon" trait so that they can move in phases: in this way they could move back and forth in the same turn and thus make hit-and-run attacks and scouting. The problem here is that the AI does not use recon movement, but since you are making a muliplayer only scenario it is not an issue here.
And if would would want more variation (to emphasize that they usually do not have a regular uniform) here are some of the partisan units that I use in my mods:
However, in some cases they did have uniform e.g. Tito's partisans:
Feel free to use them if you like
OK, so if you like them I can add them to the stock graphic files and upload them for your use.That stripped-down airstrip is perfect. I can use it as an overlay on modified escarpment.
The station is very nice as well. Modified Bocage overlay.
As for partisans, I have been using them for some time as well in my Battlefield: Europe mod, pretty much the same way as you described, with the only exception that I did not give them mountain movement (since most appear in forests or swamps). However, on a second thought, I think they would deserve their own movement type as mountain movement makes them only faster on mountain terrain, but not in swamps or forests. And as we know those Soviet partisans were very active in the Pripet marshes and in the dense Bryansk forests. I think it would be fun to make them move faster in these terrains, too, so that the enemy player gets a serious headache when chasing them.
The only problem is, partisans in general are already quite unpopular in my mod: most players hate them for a reason, and if they become even more flexible this will get only worse. But hey, after all this is guerilla warfare, they are weaker than any regular unit so they need something as a compensation.
Another option is to perhaps give them the "recon" trait so that they can move in phases: in this way they could move back and forth in the same turn and thus make hit-and-run attacks and scouting. The problem here is that the AI does not use recon movement, but since you are making a muliplayer only scenario it is not an issue here.
And if would would want more variation (to emphasize that they usually do not have a regular uniform) here are some of the partisan units that I use in my mods:
However, in some cases they did have uniform e.g. Tito's partisans:
Feel free to use them if you like
slitherine.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=147&t=47985
slitherine.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=147&t=36969
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- Major-General - Jagdtiger
- Posts: 2856
- Joined: Sun Jul 01, 2012 5:32 pm
Re: Ignorance is not bliss... Basic Training
Hello Analog Gamer! I enjoy very much what new ideas are you implementing with this noble game engine... Also, it is nice to see the way some of the forum members are helping you implement such ideas.
About the terrain elevation lines, very clever to use the coast hexes overlays... I think it would be possible to define a new terrain type for those hexes (called "slope" for example) and define them a bit slower movements costs compared to clear terrain, editing the movement files. I don't think it this can only be done for units crossing this kind of terrain at a right angle, but this would be a nice addition, even maybe it also can be given some more entrenchment value that flat terrain. Just an idea...
About the terrain elevation lines, very clever to use the coast hexes overlays... I think it would be possible to define a new terrain type for those hexes (called "slope" for example) and define them a bit slower movements costs compared to clear terrain, editing the movement files. I don't think it this can only be done for units crossing this kind of terrain at a right angle, but this would be a nice addition, even maybe it also can be given some more entrenchment value that flat terrain. Just an idea...
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- Sergeant - 7.5 cm FK 16 nA
- Posts: 210
- Joined: Sun Feb 01, 2015 6:56 pm
Re: Ignorance is not bliss... Basic Training
Thanks McGuba. It is nice to see another sadist designer.
Partisans are a MUST for any strategic-scale scenario/campaign as far as I am concerned. Not too many, and not often. Just enough to make the German player tear his hair out a little. An ambushed train here, a re-taken airfield there. I was exploring making a third-country "Bridge" unit that could be "blown up" by either side, but it turned out to be a tad more work than I wanted to explore. Not worth it since my road network is minimal and the rail network is critical.
The mountain move helps in my particular situation, as there is that big honkin' range in the middle of the map. There are smaller instances of mountains as well. I do wish there was a swamp or forest move trait.
I like the recon move idea. Maybe a move of 5 with recon move, since that burns one.
Thanks for that suggestion guille. Very tempting idea. I may implement that in the future, once I get a handle on the tasks at hand.
EDIT - Just checked. The mountain move also helps on hills, which I have a plethora of. My partisans can outrun anything in the hill country.
Partisans are a MUST for any strategic-scale scenario/campaign as far as I am concerned. Not too many, and not often. Just enough to make the German player tear his hair out a little. An ambushed train here, a re-taken airfield there. I was exploring making a third-country "Bridge" unit that could be "blown up" by either side, but it turned out to be a tad more work than I wanted to explore. Not worth it since my road network is minimal and the rail network is critical.
The mountain move helps in my particular situation, as there is that big honkin' range in the middle of the map. There are smaller instances of mountains as well. I do wish there was a swamp or forest move trait.
I like the recon move idea. Maybe a move of 5 with recon move, since that burns one.
Thanks for that suggestion guille. Very tempting idea. I may implement that in the future, once I get a handle on the tasks at hand.
EDIT - Just checked. The mountain move also helps on hills, which I have a plethora of. My partisans can outrun anything in the hill country.
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- Major-General - Jagdtiger
- Posts: 2856
- Joined: Sun Jul 01, 2012 5:32 pm
Re: Ignorance is not bliss... Basic Training
Thanks Analog for your nice words. I'm glad you liked the idea.
About Partisan units, I think they DESERVE a special move type, making them fast moving on swamp, mountains, forest, jungle terrains, but not on roads and clear-type terrains (in such terrain types they should move like a regular infantry unit, 3 hexes). Also, the recon move type for such units is a great idea...
If Yrfin reads this, (he is a forum member "specialized" on new move types) I'm sure he will immediately like this idea
Greetings!
About Partisan units, I think they DESERVE a special move type, making them fast moving on swamp, mountains, forest, jungle terrains, but not on roads and clear-type terrains (in such terrain types they should move like a regular infantry unit, 3 hexes). Also, the recon move type for such units is a great idea...
If Yrfin reads this, (he is a forum member "specialized" on new move types) I'm sure he will immediately like this idea
Greetings!