Battlefield: Europe MOD v2.4

[doctorwillow]

Oh, well then...
"We'll always have Paris"
:-/

[hugh2711]

doctorwillow; I found it. http://www.slitherine.com/forum/viewtop ... 64&t=76642 is the thread in the PZ2 where I specifically asked (3 questions) relevant to making big scenarios like BFE. I got an interesting very specific reply from rudankort.

[uzbek2012]

When will the updated version 1.9 !?
https://topwar.ru/120039-o-vengrah-koto ... -plen.html

[doctorwillow]

hugh 2711, thanks for the link. From what I read and understand..."There is still hope."

[McGuba]

When will the updated version 1.9 !?
https://topwar.ru/120039-o-vengrah-koto ... -plen.html

I work on it, but I had to postpone the release even further. Hopefully, in a few weeks I can release it, finally.
The good news is that the longer it takes, the better it will be.

[glaude1955]

Hello McGuba,
Thanks for the news.
We do not doubt that this update will be of high quality, as usual!
Regards
Yves

[BobStClair]

Hello and support for AT units in battle...
Little idea. Why not make them switchable? Primary versions without camo.
Towed versions: add camo, set movement to 0
Self propelled: add camo, set movement to 1

Bob

[McGuba]

Hi,

The problem with switchable units is that the AI fails to use them properly. I seriously doubt that it would "realize" the advantage of a camo unit and would switch a movable unit to an immobile one for that advantage. Also, units with 0 movement cannot retreat, instead they just surrender (except for fortifications).

Unofortunately, units with camo trait has one more disadvantage: when they are moved by a land, sea or air transport they retain their invisibility. I noticed it while testing the next version. Even then, I have decided to keep towed AT units with camo for now (up to 75 mm) as otherwise I like their effect on gameplay. However, if only AT units with 0 movement would have the camo trait, players would use it to their advantage and before embarking to an organic transport they would simply switch to this mode thereby making them invisible. Now this is something that would really not make any sense.

[BobStClair]

Yes, you are right,
there is problem with transport in camo mode, and with movement zero with retreat, but it was fast idea... Generally I like switched SPAT with movement 1 in camo mode, but probably there is unsolvable problem with towed units, with one big but.
Fighter traps, arty traps... In case of towed transport with camo, ofcourse it is possible in camo mode as I did try modifying your equip file, but as a player, I´m not interested to use this, because it is like cheating due to engine limitations. Maybe I will not express it clearly, but the game is equally funny as the player is.
And for AI, maybe there would be better permament camo for towed, a no camo for selfpropelled, I mean asymmetrical gameplay.

Bob

[McGuba]

Right, as it stands now, in v1.9 all towed AT guns will have movement 1, no unit switch, and camo trait added (up to 75 mm - German 88 and Soviet 100 mm AT do not get camo for now - I think they are too big and should be harder to conceal). In that way both the Axis (player) and Allied (AI by default) have the same odds. It is also necessary because for the first time I will attempt to provide an additional, more balanced version of the main scenario for multiplayer use, as several players have been asking for that. So both sides should be the same, or with other words, I do not support asymmethric gameplay.

To limit the negative effect of their invisibility when being embarked into a transport, towed AT guns can no longer be transported by air transports as in that case they could fly like invisible stealth bombers, which is quite unrealistic. Which only leaves land and sea transports. Even that is quite unrealistic, but so far I feel that this compromise is acceptable... and we will see what players will report back...

Towed AT guns will also be in the same upgrade family so they can be upgraded at a lower price. The main aim of these changes is to make towed AT guns more cost effective and useful so that players will less likely disband them and purchase other, supposedly more useful units. Historically AT guns were the main threats of tanks as more tanks were destoryed by towed AT guns than by any other means (at least until the appearance of the StuG IIIF and the other dedicated tank destroyers). I would like to better reflect it in this mod, even though my possibilities as a modder are quite limited.

The other change here is that the German 75 mm AT gun will be available for purchase and upgrade later, from autumn 1942. Although its production did start in February 1942 (and that's the availability date in vanilla PzC), in this mod one towed AT unit represents one thousand actual anti-tank guns, and as can be seen here
http://www.lexikon-der-wehrmacht.de/Waf ... anonen.htm
the first one thousand 7,5 cm Pak 40 were only produced by August/September and monthly production only reached 500-1000 units by December 1942. It might also explain why the Axis had a hard time at Stalingrad and during the subsequent Soviet offensives during winter 1942/43. The most common 50 mm and even smaller caliber AT guns were just not up to the job and the highly effective 75 mm guns only reached the frontline troops in limited numbers by that time. It will be also better reflected in the next version of this mod.

[BobStClair]

Mr. McGuba,
first, I would like to thank you for lot of work on your mod and so much fun for us, players... Second, it is nice to see your effort with AT class and camo, that is the reason, I have joined this topic. And third... I am really waiting for version 1.9, I sense, that it could be breathtaking...

And nice idea, with camo up to 75 mm, there are solid arguments.

Have a nice day

Bob

[guille1434]

May I suggest to add a switch to towed AT guns, where the "camo" version is not transportable by any means except by it own "leg" movement, and give them a switch to turn them into transportable, but not camouflaged versions of themselves. I don't know how the AI would handle that set of options, but it should do the trick for multiplayer and for players pitted against the AI...

[glaude1955]

Very good suggestion,
I saw this montage in the DMP mods where the guns after a switch were transformed into transport.
The "cannon" unit (with the camo option) could have a movement of one hex to avoid surrender and after the switch become a vehicle without a camo.
Regards
Yves

[Intenso82]

May I suggest to add a switch to towed AT guns, where the "camo" version is not transportable by any means except by it own "leg" movement, and give them a switch to turn them into transportable, but not camouflaged versions of themselves. I don't know how the AI would handle that set of options, but it should do the trick for multiplayer and for players pitted against the AI...

If the unit already has an attached transport, it will use it even if the switchable unit is not transportable.
In order for a player not to use an AT unit with camo as a unit of deep recon, I have added an AT unit with camo trait - no captureflag.

Very good suggestion,
I saw this montage in the DMP mods where the guns after a switch were transformed into transport.
The "cannon" unit (with the camo option) could have a movement of one hex to avoid surrender and after the switch become a vehicle without a camo.

A good idea.
But some units will switch to transport in one way, another part in another way.
Need more icons transported AT guns, the number of = AT units * number of types of transport..
And there will not be a mode of upgrade of transport for these units.
This is good for individual scenarios. And what about the long scenarios or campaign mode?
But I would also added the transport switch mode trait no captureflag.

[McGuba]

May I suggest to add a switch to towed AT guns, where the "camo" version is not transportable by any means except by it own "leg" movement, and give them a switch to turn them into transportable, but not camouflaged versions of themselves. I don't know how the AI would handle that set of options, but it should do the trick for multiplayer and for players pitted against the AI...

The problem is, even if a unit is not supposed to have a land transport (truck), if you attach to it one when it is in the "normal" mode, it will retain it if you switch to camo mode and then it will still be able to use its truck, it will not disappear in that mode, and could still move unseen. The other and more important problem is the AI - I do not think it recognizes the importance of camo trait, it might just not use that mode at all. I had the same problem with the submarines (which have three modes in this mod) and in the end I just restricted the AI to use two of them, but it still fails to use the deep dived mode with the camo trait despite its clear advantage.

[uzbek2012]

As the progress with the upgrade to version 1.9 !?
http://wartools.ru/broneavtomobili/broneavto-csaba-39m

[McGuba]

It is coming very soon, hopefully within a few days.

[wargovichr]

Please list clear specific INSTALLATION instructions.

[glaude1955]

It is coming very soon, hopefully within a few days.

Very good news

Regards

Yves

[Yrfin]

May I suggest to add a switch to towed AT guns, where the "camo" version is not transportable by any means except by it own "leg" movement, and give them a switch to turn them into transportable, but not camouflaged versions of themselves. I don't know how the AI would handle that set of options, but it should do the trick for multiplayer and for players pitted against the AI...

The problem is, even if a unit is not supposed to have a land transport (truck), if you attach to it one when it is in the "normal" mode, it will retain it if you switch to camo mode and then it will still be able to use its truck, it will not disappear in that mode, and could still move unseen. The other and more important problem is the AI - I do not think it recognizes the importance of camo trait, it might just not use that mode at all. I had the same problem with the submarines (which have three modes in this mod) and in the end I just restricted the AI to use two of them, but it still fails to use the deep dived mode with the camo trait despite its clear advantage.

I think "camo" are good for tactical fight (classical PzC) but not for a "a'la strategic" modification Mod like BF.
For classical fight, small AT must be a switchable Unit.
1. Standart Stance (default Stats). Not transportable.
2. Switch to Transport (truck or half-truck).
3. Switch to"Hide/Ambush" mode with "camo" (only at "close"territory (Sity, Forest and so). Need a special type of movement (see http://www.slitherine.com/forum/viewtop ... 8&start=40).

And of coz its not for AI units