Battlefield: Europe MOD v1.9

A forum to discuss custom scenarios, campaigns and modding in general.

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cicciopastic
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Re: Battlefield: Europe MOD v1.9

Post by cicciopastic » Wed Nov 01, 2017 7:57 pm

hi McGuba,

i noticed thet the russian sub in the black sea can be onlsy submerged: at periscope or deep. is that inetional?

cheers, ciccio

GeneralWerner
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Re: Battlefield: Europe MOD v1.9

Post by GeneralWerner » Wed Nov 01, 2017 9:52 pm

I also do not prefer to siege Leningrad.
The last times I destroyed the two Russian tank divisions in the south first.
Using two Panzer IV plus artillery plus tac bomber. After the tanks are gone the artillery in Leningrad can be defeated with tank attacks. After that German infantry can enter.

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Re: Battlefield: Europe MOD v1.9

Post by McGuba » Wed Nov 01, 2017 11:33 pm

cicciopastic wrote:hi McGuba,

i noticed thet the russian sub in the black sea can be onlsy submerged: at periscope or deep. is that inetional?

cheers, ciccio
The AI does not seem to use the multipurpose submarines at all. I have rarely seen it switching to another mode, it only uses them in periscope depth for most of the time. :( So probably there is no need to give the AI more options. However, for the next version I have added several new Allied submarine types with correct surfaced icons, but again, these are aimed for the multiplayer games when they are controlled by another human player.
JimmyC wrote: By the way, what is the best way to take Leningrad? I don't think its worth to siege them out, as it requires so many troops to sit statically. Maybe massed artillery and Luftwaffe?
I think it might worth keeping it under siege for a while as the defenders get a bit weaker and then it is easier to capture it. It does not matter what type of units hold the siege, they can be weaker Minor Axis units as well, with little experience. However, it is true that some stronger units are also needed in the front to repel Soviet attempts to lift the siege. The other option is to wait for the Panthers which can easily wipe out the defending tanks.
Around 5 or 6 planes are sitting over Moscow and inactive – they just sit there. In July, they suddenly activated. I am not sure what caused this (timing or because I approach within certain distance)?
In one of the latest versions I added a random percentage for these fighters to activate in any turn after early 1942. In one game it can happen earlier, in another later. This way players who are replaying the mod can never be sure when the enemy fighters will go to the offensive forcing them to keep a sizeable air force in the area for a while, or to attack and destroy the fighters during the spring - which can be risky due to the presence of the AA guns in Moscow. It is all about unpredictability and to increase replay value. It is also quite similar to multiplayer game, when the player never knows what his opponent will do in the next turn. I wish I could do more of this for the single player scenario.
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JimmyC
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Re: Battlefield: Europe MOD v1.9

Post by JimmyC » Thu Nov 02, 2017 1:36 am

McGuba wrote:
JimmyC wrote:
Around 5 or 6 planes are sitting over Moscow and inactive – they just sit there. In July, they suddenly activated. I am not sure what caused this (timing or because I approach within certain distance)?
In one of the latest versions I added a random percentage for these fighters to activate in any turn after early 1942. In one game it can happen earlier, in another later. This way players who are replaying the mod can never be sure when the enemy fighters will go to the offensive forcing them to keep a sizeable air force in the area for a while, or to attack and destroy the fighters during the spring - which can be risky due to the presence of the AA guns in Moscow. It is all about unpredictability and to increase replay value. It is also quite similar to multiplayer game, when the player never knows what his opponent will do in the next turn. I wish I could do more of this for the single player scenario.
Actually i found that it was harder to attack Moscow as a result of the planes sitting statically overhead. In the turn they activated they did a fair bit of damage to me (especially as i left some bombers without escort). But as the AI isn't so good at using its air force i soon wiped it out and could then concentrate my bombers over Moscow. Kudos for introducing variability as it indeed increases the replay value of the game.

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Re: Battlefield: Europe MOD v1.9

Post by hugh2711 » Thu Nov 02, 2017 9:23 am

I have to admit, I also dont bother with leningrad at all now since the siege was implemented, it gives too much losses with the counterattacks while you wait. Ignoring it also frees up the A+3 D+3 stuka (rudel?). Previous to the siege I would take leningrad. I would be interested to find out how many people bother with it now and when they actually get it.

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Re: Battlefield: Europe MOD v1.9

Post by Yrfin » Thu Nov 02, 2017 4:55 pm

McGuba wrote: The AI does not seem to use the multipurpose submarines at all
AI does not seem to use the multipurpose airplanes too :(. Damn it, stupid PzC designers... Oops. I mean stupid AI of coz.
Shoot first. Ask questions later.

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Re: Battlefield: Europe MOD v1.9

Post by JimmyC » Tue Nov 07, 2017 3:17 am

I’m in early ’43 (Feb) and have noticed a few things –
Torch
The enemy seem to advance faster now. Whereas before I had time to transport troops to that front, it now seems like a real dash to occupy defensive positions in time. For example I had a Gebirgsjäger waiting next to the Mareth Line that immediately advanced to the Kasserine Pass once Torch commenced. It reached the Kasserine Pass on the same turn as an American infantry unit.

As per other iterations, the Allied naval forces arrive in dribs and drabs. This makes it a lot easier to deal with them (although the 3 star destroyers are a pain in the *x#!).

Winter ’42 Russia offensive
I knew it was coming and built up reserves and a strong defensive line (I thought). And yet I still got swept away around Rostov and Kursk! Multiple turns of cloudy weather really limits the effectiveness of the Luftwaffe. And once again I feel the huge technology gap between the German and Russian tanks (T34/43 are simply superior to anything the Wehrmacht has). This is exactly how it should be - well done! Towed AT also prove their worth at this time.

Leningrad
This battle is a massive meat grinder. Simply clearing out the Russian infantry in the swamps and forests proves hugely costly and tied up massive amounts of manpower. I don’t even effect a blockade yet! It seems perhaps harder than the real life situation, although perhaps that is because i waited until late '42 before attacking in that direction?

Italian AT
Italian AT are not in the same upgrade tree. Therefore you have to pay full price to upgrade to later models. Is this deliberate?

Marder Series
In other playthroughs I never upgraded to Marders, always going for Stug’s. In this playthough I decided to try out the Marders and upgraded 4 Towed AT to Marder II/III, plus the ones you swap out in Berlin. It was a mistake… they are real glass cannons and it is very easy for these units to get annihilated if not heavily protected. I just don’t see them as being a worthwhile purchase. Perhaps consider lowering their cost slightly to give more incentive to buy these units (especially Marder II, which is particularly weak)?

oladelmar
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Re: Battlefield: Europe MOD v1.9

Post by oladelmar » Thu Nov 09, 2017 2:29 pm

I'm in Jan '42 and have noticed a few things -

My overall strategy: no fancy operations, any distraction from reducing Leningrad/Moscow/Stalingrad as soon as possible will probably be punished with massive Soviet reinforcements. AK reinforced somewhat and heavily supported by Regia Marina, to be able to maintain a steady advance. Any early capture of oil fields is out of the question as too risky before the Soviet steamroller is sufficiently wounded. Everything is easy after Russia falls...

Goddammit, this mod is great!!! Sry just had to get that off my chest.

MALTA
I'm on dice chess, and this renders Malta almost unconquerable. With even Rudel getting a damage estimation of zero, there's no application of force that will guarantee the fort's reduction. A bit excessive perhaps? Short of parking the Regia Marina within gunnery range AND using the 4-range arty AND bombing with Rudel until I get 12 lucky hits. Ended up abandoning the siege, I'm now gambling on the German battlecruisers interfering with the Torch landings and an advanced landing in Algiers/Oran to stay out of range of Maltese air cover. I dread the additional air units I'll have to deal with...

RUSSIAN WINTER
The Russian Winter effect is beautiful and brutal. Knew it was coming, and still I got hammered, lost 1 Pz, an 88Flak and 2 Grenadiers so far(all of which were full-cost upgrades!) Meaning any gain from an early capture of Moscow is already cancelled out by the cost of the rush.

MARDERS
@JimmyC: I could have told you about the Marders man, I tried a couple myself in an earlier game. Thing is, with so many turns of bad weather, the good INT values of those cannons are cancelled out, meaning the supreme value of any ground unit is its ground defense value. Panzer III all the way! You get GD 12 - 14 early on, and to hell with the puny cannon, you can still kill everything BUT the russian armor. Either surround, pound and surrender, or send in the Stukas when the weather's nice.

FUEL
The fleet fuel limitations are excellent. I would have wished the warnings to come even sooner though, as fleet plans are very long term affairs. Tirpitz having to stay in Norway is a nice touch, I've opted for parking the beast in Trondheim, putting the prestige to use in bolstering my assault on the Russian Bear.

SUPPLY
reducing supply in forest is a nice touch, and addresses the main weakness of the engine - supply modelling. I'm imagining it's going to cost a LOT of turns in total, and then there's that horse drawn artillery thing as well.

...Did you know I can refuel my aircraft from Vichy French airports? Accuse me of being gamey if you wish, but forcing Vichy to accept this concession is very much within the realm of the possible IMHO. There's a certain Jagdgeschwader on its way from Sardinia, with the cream of Regia Aeronautica in attendance. The JG will be sorely missed elsewhere, but hopefully this will solve the Gibraltar issue! German fighter, Italian naval bomber, and the torpedo frog men to block the Straits. Good luck getting past that trio, Tommy! You can keep your damn Rock, the Med is mine!

LENINGRAD
... is mine. A costly business, but it actually went somewhat ahead of schedule. The fort has no air cover, and there are no tanks in the North, so I sent two arty, a recon and a Flammpanzer up to finish what the Finns started.

INFANTRY UPGRADES
...I have to pay FULL price for my Grenadiers?! Damn, that just seems hurtful. Of all the upgrades, that's the one that makes the most sense - give the guys more guns to haul around and they get slower but tougher. No magic transformation of old Panzer to new Panzer, just the same guys with better guns. I'd rather see all armor upgrades be full price, as 'upgrading' a panzer unit is a fairytale anywas. Oh well, the one cancels the other out in the end I guess, and some of those schütze divisions will have to make do with their Mausers.

INFANTRY IN CLOSE TERRAIN
Unless backed by artillery or very heavily entrenched, the survival chance of an infantry division in close terrain is actually lower than on the plains. Kind of counter-intuitive, and cost me a couple before I remembered the lethal effect forests have on the Landser's ability to ever see their Heimat again.

I WISH, I WISH
Yeah, I know, you're done with this Mod but I'm not letting that stop me. I'm sooo yearning for the ability to have my Pioniere construct fortified terrain, or something that enables me to expend resources on fortifications. The massive effort the Wehrmacht expended in static defense lines is hardly replicated anywhere, nor are the seven(!) lines of defense around Kursk... I see you've been playing around with 'dynamic battlefield' stuff, so I'm just throwing it out there...

JimmyC
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Re: Battlefield: Europe MOD v1.9

Post by JimmyC » Fri Nov 10, 2017 7:36 am

oladelmar wrote: INFANTRY IN CLOSE TERRAIN
Unless backed by artillery or very heavily entrenched, the survival chance of an infantry division in close terrain is actually lower than on the plains. Kind of counter-intuitive, and cost me a couple before I remembered the lethal effect forests have on the Landser's ability to ever see their Heimat again.

I WISH, I WISH
Yeah, I know, you're done with this Mod but I'm not letting that stop me. I'm sooo yearning for the ability to have my Pioniere construct fortified terrain, or something that enables me to expend resources on fortifications. The massive effort the Wehrmacht expended in static defense lines is hardly replicated anywhere, nor are the seven(!) lines of defense around Kursk... I see you've been playing around with 'dynamic battlefield' stuff, so I'm just throwing it out there...
I dont understand what you mean about infantry in close terrain? Is it because they dont retreat as easily, therefore get attacked by more enemy troops? Infantry will get mauled by armour when in the open, so generally its better to keep them in close terrain to help mitigate that threat (although the T34/43 still seems to do a lot of damage in close terrain).

Regarding fortifications, later in the war you have the option to purchase both forts and minefields. They are a separate unit classified as AA and come as a transport. You move them where you want them, then convert them to the fort/minefield. In this way they are somewhat similar to what you are asking for.

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Re: Battlefield: Europe MOD v1.9

Post by Slimak81 » Fri Nov 10, 2017 12:28 pm

Very Very difficult since winter 1943. I got hordes of T-34/43 + Kvs + tons of aircrafts vaporizing me from stalingrad. I could only capture Leningrad , Smolensk and Kursk, then i got outnammbered 1to 10. Ai seems have endless troop pools
and i am playing medium.
Had to cheat 15000 prestige or war would end in late 1943.
Singe Ferdidnand with 5 str would not help me for sure.

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Re: Battlefield: Europe MOD v1.9

Post by oladelmar » Fri Nov 10, 2017 6:10 pm

@Jimmy: basically the close defense value of INF makes for higher casualties, regardless of attacker. Thus, a higher chance to get wiped out. Sure they get punished in the open vs tanks, but what I'm trying to say is, sometimes you should avoid putting your unit in close terrain. Example: a weakened Pionier that would be exposed to enemy inf attack. Due to its high value the AI will avccept most odds and possibly kill the unit.

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Re: Battlefield: Europe MOD v1.9

Post by guille1434 » Fri Nov 10, 2017 6:51 pm

Just a thought guys... If it looks like Infantry type units are very vulnerable in close terrain, we can just mod the close defense value up in the equipment file and then make more testing, till it looks that said units vulnerability is the adequate.

hugh2711
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Re: Battlefield: Europe MOD v1.9

Post by hugh2711 » Sun Nov 12, 2017 3:10 pm

oladelmar: I find that the two italian fighter bombers are enough to take out malta (dice chess,general level, intermediate game) IFF you surpress malta first i.e. use the italian strat bomber and get another german one to help. However it is not usually possible untill after the first winter, I can usually only get it down to about 8 before the bad weather sets in and have to finish the job quite quickly after winter.

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Re: Battlefield: Europe MOD v1.9

Post by JimmyC » Tue Nov 14, 2017 2:22 am

guille1434 wrote:Just a thought guys... If it looks like Infantry type units are very vulnerable in close terrain, we can just mod the close defense value up in the equipment file and then make more testing, till it looks that said units vulnerability is the adequate.
I think you are overlooking the benefit of entrenchment. You entrench much faster in close terrain and I think this makes up for the lower close defense stats. Of course you need some turns to entrench though… Also, it provides greater protection from air attack.

I always use full random dice when playing. Sure it can be frustrating sometimes, but I think it better reflects the somewhat random nature of real life engagements. For Malta I bring Rudel down in the winter of ’41 when its raining/snowing. Combined with a strat bomber that should arrive earlier, he averages about 1 point off each turn. Key though is making sure that you eliminate any fighters that appear, as every turn they are protecting Malta is a turn you can’t attack it. So I will have at least 2 fighters and 1 AA to help with that. I also usually use one of the Italian tac bombers to hunt subs and try to blockade Malta with subs and light/heavy cruisers to prevent reinforcement. Doing this I captured Malta 2 turns before Torch started which was a bit close for comfort, but was mainly due to me not having a strong enough fighter presence to combat the enemy fighters around Malta (I ended up transferring the Fw to help).

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Re: Battlefield: Europe MOD v1.9

Post by empedocles » Tue Nov 14, 2017 1:14 pm

May '43 update.

Hey! Good fun again! I conquered Moscow and started the invasion of England during the first winter. After getting mauled by the tanks north of London I am now attacking Glasgow which should fall before winter '43.

One thing I noticed is that I didn't get any prestige bonus for conquering London. Is it a bug? the only message I got was the one about the king speech when I landed my units.

In NA I am holding in Tunez with the italian army and help from the Luftwaffe. It will probably fall but should buy me time to defeat the americans in Kasserine.

In the east, I just conquered Leningrad (no siege there. I ignored it until I could divert forces from Moscow to conquer using lot of arty).
I am also hoping the line does not break around Kursk. It's proving really hard!

1 question, what happens with Operation Dragoon (south france invasion) if I still hold tunis by august 44'?

thanks again for this superb mod!

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Re: Battlefield: Europe MOD v1.9

Post by JimmyC » Wed Nov 15, 2017 1:11 am

The Russian drive on Kursk in early ’43 is really tough. So much artillery, armour and elite infantry! I would suggest following the in-game advice and try to reduce or destroy the salient. Although its mostly passive in summer/autumn, it will activate in winter and with the rivers frozen they have the potential to steamroll your defenses.

If you hold onto Tunis then Dragoon won’t happen. And as you seem to be on your way to conquering Britain, you don’t have to worry about Overlord either. Lucky you!

What level of difficulty are you playing on? I’m playing on General and am in Aug ’43, but only managed to capture Moscow and the British oilfields so far, so you are doing much better than me. I’m hoping that with the Panther A coming available soon I will be able to pick up some pace.

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Partisans

Post by JimmyC » Wed Nov 15, 2017 5:43 am

Partisan activity seems much more random now. Whereas before it was restricted to mostly the pripet marshes and Baulkans, it is now more widespread. I also found that they set up ambushes for you. For example an understrength partisan unit captured one of the ports on the west coast of the Balkans. I advanced a couple of troops to eliminate it, only to discover 2 overstrength units lurking out of site, which ambushed and destroyed my lead unit. Well done!

By the way, do partisans come with any traits other than camo? Maybe its because I’m playing on full random dice, but it seems that I often get worse combat results than indicated when fighting partisans?

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Re: Battlefield: Europe MOD v1.9

Post by empedocles » Wed Nov 15, 2017 9:26 am

JimmyC wrote:
What level of difficulty are you playing on? I’m playing on General and am in Aug ’43, but only managed to capture Moscow and the British oilfields so far, so you are doing much better than me. I’m hoping that with the Panther A coming available soon I will be able to pick up some pace.

also on general. I use turbo units for naval units to move between the north sea and the atlantic only if they are not engaged in battle.

I never managed to conquer the british oil fields, how do yo do that?

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Re: Battlefield: Europe MOD v1.9

Post by hugh2711 » Wed Nov 15, 2017 5:12 pm

There appears to be three ways to get the oilfields:
1) get poti, the black sea coast port by sneaking (without being seen) two units across immediately at start with a fighter bomber and strat bomber to take out the sub and ship in the way. then just get and units strike southeast on the road, take out the first city, keep going, the next one is empty, keep going a bit and take the next city (occupied). then get enough units to go for the first oifield, you will need enough to take out a sherman, a t34 and a light tank. while you are doing that arty and infantry (mountain troops) can get the first oilfield, i think it is grozny. then i usually split the force the mountain troops go north with all the arty and get the next one (is it markop?). the tanks i usually use to go south and get the first british one (with some support) and subsequently go souht again and get the one on the persian gulf. The difficulty I find is having enough open slots to get new units as you cant import them.
2) take your parachutist from the med on your first go otherwise he will be stuck there for a while. During the first winter sneak him across the black sea and land him in the unoccupied city on the above route then follow the above path.
3) [havent actually tried this one myself] take (is it?) crete. launch an amphibious attack on the coast of north syria, then take over the middle east. Looking at the map I would say the british ones are much easier to take from the east rather than this method. The advantage of this method is you are not reliant on having open slots.

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Re: Battlefield: Europe MOD v1.9

Post by JimmyC » Thu Nov 16, 2017 1:26 am

I have done it twice now and gone for option 3 both times. It has pros and cons, but my feeling now is that it is probably not optimal, as it sucks resources from other theatres. It is fun though.

Basically you capture Cyprus with the fallschirmjäger/brandenburgers and Regia Marina for use as a springboard (its airport is really useful). You then land forces in the very north of the Syrian coast (preferably during bad weather to avoid being spotted). After eliminating the enemy forces in the area you strike out across the desert to the oilfields. It takes a long time to reach there as it is mostly dunes, so use tracked vehicles/transports. The British will send a relief force, so you need to be prepared for their counter attack. I bring 4 armored units (a mix of tanks and SPAT), 1 or 2 artillery (the Italian SPA is good here) and some infantry. I also use a spotter plane, the long range Italian tactical bomber and the Bf109 desert fighter that you get gifted early on (it has a bit more fuel than standard fighters). If you then plan to use this force to further advance north into Russia you should supplement it accordingly (probably by adding more infantry/artillery).

Things to be aware of:
1. The British will send a relief force against you from the Gulf (east). This is a scripted event that otherwise doesn’t happen. Its not too hard to defeat if you are prepared, but if they catch your infantry or artillery out in the open desert, they will annihilate them.
2. When the reinforcements from the Suez arrive (battle of El Alamein) my experience is that they split into 2 groups. One group attacks towards Tobruk as normal, whilst the other will attack up the Syrian coast and recapture the cities. They will then head out across the desert (but only if you have captured 1 or more cities in Iraq). This can be beneficial as it makes it easier to deal with the group attacking Tobruk. For your oilfield force it is vital you capture the cities on the Euphrates/Tigris so that you force the overstrength enemy armour to attack your entrenched infantry or attack across the river. That way they are much easier to destroy.
3. There is an aircraft carrier and battleship (I think) in the Gulf and I sometimes encounter an Allied fighter stationed there.

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