Battlefield Europe v1.9 – Turning the Tide in the East (Kursk save: plan of attack for discussion)

[PeteMitchell]

After my other Battlefield Europe AARs, I took some break from this great mod (mainly for time reasons) but I tried a few (normal) multiplayer games in the meantime, great experience and a lot of fun with endless opportunities to learn!

Nonetheless, I still wanted to do another AAR of the Kursk save (or the Stalingrad save). So I tried the Kursk save a few times but I feel I still get stuck… Please note, I haven’t played until the end yet. However, you can tell after 10-20 turns if your strategy can work out or not. As you may know, it starts at turn 51 (July 1943) of the original mod. For inspiration, I also had a look at the AARs of GeneralWerner and Uhu already…

BE_Turn_51_001_Strategic Map.jpg (217.36 KiB) Viewed 2870 times

For the (high-level/summarized) plan:

• I think I have figured out how to hold Sicily (at least the first Allied landing) and therefore prevent Operation Dragoon/Anvil in Southern France.

• I also have a plan for amphibious landings in Scotland with some deception measures in the south, therefore eventually preventing Operation Overlord.

• At the Ostfront, I am thinking of prioritizing Leningrad, the Caucasus and Stalingrad (depriving the Soviets of critical reinforcements as quickly as possible) while falling back behind the Dnieper (establishing defensive positions) in the center, i.e. following Guderian’s thoughts to some extent:

Is it really necessary to attack Kursk, and indeed in the east this year at all? Do you think anyone even knows where Kursk is? The entire world doesn't care if we capture Kursk or not. What is the reason that is forcing us to attack this year on Kursk, or even more, on the Eastern Front?

Basically, I don’t really believe in a full frontal attack on Moscow and Kursk given what I see on the Soviet side at this point in time…

So my questions:

1. Do you have any thoughts on my above/brief plan of attack?
2. Is there anything that has worked/hasn't worked for you that I missed?
3. Has someone actually managed to achieve a MV with this Kursk save (i.e. based on V1.9 of the mod and at General difficulty level)?

Any thoughts or ideas are very welcome and will be much appreciated, thanks a lot!

[goose_2]

I cannot address any of your questions, but I am looking forward to how this plays itself out.

Wish I could figure out how to apply this mod.

[PeteMitchell]

I cannot address any of your questions, but I am looking forward to how this plays itself out.

Wish I could figure out how to apply this mod.

Thanks a lot goose_2... until now it hasn't played out well yet as I am kind of going around in circles...

[GeneralWerner]

Hi Pete,
I have thought about your plan. In principle everything is possible in this mod. If you would reach all your targets you would be on a good way to defeat Russia.

If you can stop the Allies in Sicily I would be surprised. On the strategic map it looks like the Allies will land next round and I guess the Axis troops on Sicily can't stop them. But you have a good chance to stop the Allies in Italy with deeply entrenched troops in the mountains. It would help very much if you could destroy or damage most of their battle ships. If they can bombard your troops over the whole winter the entrenchment will be reduced. If they break through your last defense for the Reich are the Alpes.

An amphibious landing in England and capturing a city will prevent Overlord. But you will need good troops and air cover that you will miss in Russia. And you will need luck. A change in weather, an unexpected move of the Royal Navy and suddenly your whole plan fails. I am not sure whether it is worth to prevent Overlord in that way. You can later set up a good defense against the Allies in France with experienced troops from the Ostfront far away from the beaches and their Navy.

In Russia you have to expect an overwhelming enemy while you will suffer from low prestige. Retreating in the center and going for Stalingrad and the Caucasus will overbend your frontline in the south and the risk that your troops are overrun and cut off is great. You would have a much more compact frontline if you go for Leningrad and Moscow. Easier to defend if the game turns bad and easier to retreat.

Just my opinion. I look forward to see, how you approach.

Good success, Herr Generalfeldmarschall! The Reich counts on you

[PeteMitchell]

Thanks GeneralWerner for your thoughts and your opinion, very much appreciated and good to hear back from you as well!

You are definitely more experienced than me. Actually, I have the impression that this Kursk save file is more difficult than the normal BE mod and also even more difficult than the Normandy save file, a bit like on a knife's edge…

Yes, the strategic map above shows the starting point prior to any move.

Sure, it is definitely an option to go all north in Russia (with Leningrad and Moscow first), hoping to be fast enough in defeating Russia (while they still get heavy tank reinforcements due to the Caucasus oil fields) and then to go west and south asap trying to stop the Allies in France and Italy (or more realistically: maybe only/latest at the borders of Germany)…

Well, so far I haven’t solved this puzzle yet, and I am not sure I actually can/will… that’s also why I had started this thread!

[PeteMitchell]

Happy New Year to all!

Talking about New Year's resolutions... has anyone some more valuable experiences with this Kursk save file maybe? Thanks for any additional ideas or hints!

[Uhu]

Hi Pete,
With 1.9 it is still possible to hold Sicily. It needs much luck, but it is possible. You need to redirect some strat bombers and fighters to neutralize the ships, than you can send everything away. With later versions, I don't know, if you have any chance to hold Sicily, as you cannot buy units, so you cannot hinder the Allies to go ashore. Then, I think, if you can redirect some Strat bombers + fighters, you can neutralize the Allied ships and than take back Sicily after some time.
For the cancellation of Overlord, I would probably still recommend Plymouth, because it can be defended with a few units and the Scapa Flow British flotilla can be held up at the strait S of London. I used with earlier versions a Panther, a StuH42 and an armored AA for defending that point. If you focus in the meantime on east, it can probably work.
I think, after Kursk, it is important to seal the Volga river. Therefore it is important to take Voronezh, Tula, Stalingrad, Astrakhan, and even more Moscow and the region east of it till Gorky, while blocking Yaroslavl, Ryazan and guarding the Oka river. After that, I would say, go for the oil wells and for Leningrad. But beware of the winters! After that, take the rest of the CCCP. With earlier versions, with tons of reload, replay and luck, it was even possible to make a DV in the very last turn. But it is no more possible. At least not with Rommel difficulty (manual prestige allocation halving).

Happy New Year to all!

Talking about New Year's resolutions... has anyone some more valuable experiences with this Kursk save file maybe? Thanks for any additional ideas or hints!

[PeteMitchell]

Thanks a lot Uhu for your thoughts and input, very much appreciated!

So if I understand you correctly, you suggest to focus on the center first and only then approach the flanks (oil wells and Leningrad). This is interesting indeed although I am not sure I will be able to do this…

[Uhu]

You are welcome!
I think, you know, how big difference is to take on a Soviet tank on staying river, or field... Also, when a hostile unit is blocked in the river, others behind it cannot cross too. Also, there is/will be a huge army west of Moscow, which you had to take on - sooner or later. So it's better to take this out sooner, before the arrival of the T-34/85's... On the other hand, you can redirect some units after Kursk to the Caucasus, but I would more advise to take Moscow first (plus the region east of it). It would also give a huge prestige boost which is desperately needed. After that, you can part your forces.
On the other hand timing is total important to take Plymouth. Not to soon, because, you need a Panzer A and also if you take Plymouth too early, the losses in every turn, which will be there will be even higher. On the other hand, have also enough time to take it before overlord!

Thanks a lot Uhu for your thoughts and input, very much appreciated!

So if I understand you correctly, you suggest to focus on the center first and only then approach the flanks (oil wells and Leningrad). This is interesting indeed although I am not sure I will be able to do this…

[PeteMitchell]

Thanks a lot Uhu, well I definitely agree on the various challenges…

For anyone who might not be that familiar with the map (yet), here is also the strategic map (at the start of turn 51 as above) with Fog of War off:

BE_Turn_51_002_Strategic Map FOW Off.jpg (227.28 KiB) Viewed 2602 times

As well as the air map:

BE_Turn_51_003_Strategic Map Air FOW Off.jpg (212.81 KiB) Viewed 2594 times