How and why so many AAR's

Battle Reports & After Action Reports (AAR's)

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goose_2
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Re: How and why so many AAR's

Post by goose_2 »

I was away for a Holiday with my extended family, so I am poised to take on Minsk with Guderian and Manstein, but I need to get time to type up the AAR's for the First 3 missions of 1941.

It is going well, and I am excited to finally be able to get started in Russia. :D
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Re: How and why so many AAR's

Post by goose_2 »

Quick Update:

Yes I only have 1 more scenario to finish Blindthrough on Afrika Korps. Excited as this should give me a bunch of Steam Achievements. :twisted: :twisted: :mrgreen:

I am trying for the 2nd time Demyansk Pocket on Manstein. It is extremely Hard!!! :evil: :evil: (As was Streets of Moscow) :oops:
(But I will get to that when I finally am able to type up some updates.

It is Guderian which I am needing a little advice.

I am going West and I can only import 9 units into the 1st Scenario
So this is where I need some advice.

These are the units I am considering taking. (Some are for sures but I need help pairing out which 9 make the cut.)
Considering 2 of 3 Fighters:
Heinrich Bar; Otto Kittel; and +3 Att Fighter.

Considering 2 Bombers with possibly only 1:
Helmut Lent and Uber Rudel.

Only 2 tanks that I will take of course:
Heinz Rondorf and Albert Kirscher.

2 possibly 3 infantry I am considering:
Oleh Dir with +2 Def 2nd Hero; Herbert Wirnsberger; and +4 Att Pioniere.

1 Artillery I would like to take:
+3 Attack Sturmpanzer: (Should I change him to a different Artillery, if so what)

1 Anti-Tank I am considering:
+3 Def Marder 2 currently

So that makes 12 units to consider making the cut as all of my SE Units will transfer over.

Which ones should come along? What should I field in terms of upgrade?

Please no spoilers only suggested units to take in the West.

Thanks for the feedback.
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dalfrede
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Re: How and why so many AAR's

Post by dalfrede »

Goose, think 39, not 43; A balanced force.

it is simple:
Heinrich Bar; Otto Kittel
Helmut Lent and Uber Rudel
Oleh Dir, Herbert Wirnsberger
Heinz Rondorf and Albert Kirscher

The last choice is Infantry or Artillery. A+3 is hard to get, so Sturmpanzer looks best.

No AT, no third fighter.
There comes a time on every project when it is time to shoot the engineer and ship the damn thing.
hurly
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Re: How and why so many AAR's

Post by hurly »

I agree with dalfrede

Take along any of the Special Multi-Heroes (except Recon Rudel of course) on your path and then look which unit from your Army has the best Hero already and probably weigh in Experience as well (but I think that is more of a Tiebreaker)

Also I would recommend to upgrade any Unit into the best Option available no matter if it's in Family or not as you might lose the Prestige you spend here anyway. Same with Overstrength Pimp anyone coming with you to the Max

On the Sturmpanzer Att+3
Have you got any Range Heroes on another Arty ? I always consider the Range +1 as most valuable for Arty and even though it is probably not the most economical way, upgrade the Sturmpanzer to a SP Wurfrahmen or even a Regular towed Arty. The Sturmpanzer is ok but outdated and for an SP Arty a bit slow anyway. The Wurfrahmen will become a Prime Target though but it's a devastating unit either with Att+3 or Ran +1.

Don't think about the Cost you will get stripped of a lot of Prestige anyway

For a little out of the Box Thinker

If you got an 88 AA gun with Mov+1 or Att+3 or Ran +1 available or a chance to upgrade a mobile AA into an 88 Gun, this might hamper your Mobility a bit, but can be rewarding later on.

On the other Hand its Guderian and the ability to move quickly can be crucial especially when playing the West Campaign in Blind Mode.

Anyway my advice is to upgrade all and everything to the Max and then go out and look which extra unit can be remodeled into the most promising Unit long term.

btw you keep all your SE Units so the Allocation might influence your decision.
I had 4 tanks back then so I even considered to leave one of the Multi Hero Tanks behind

If you got a well experienced Level Bomber with a Great ATT Hero it might be worth a Thought or 2 !!!!!
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Re: How and why so many AAR's

Post by goose_2 »

Thanks for the feedback Gentleman,

Man, you have given me much to consider.
I was considering taking that +3 Attack Fighter because he does not have that -2 Defensive penalty, and with AA being Otto's biggest weakness I considered that a factor. (Thoughts?)

Uber Rudel as a Fighter Bomber is a given, Helmut Lent is a bit of a different story +6 Initiative sounds great but on a Bomber it is like putting tits on a bull, am I right?

Oleh Dir And Helmut Wirnsberger are givens, but what should I upgrade them to? I love Gebirsjaeger, but I have heard many, many great arguments for doing a different infantry unit, most suggest Pioniere. But if I do Pioniere for Oleh do I give him a transport? It makes him a much more expensive unit. Same for Helmut, Pioniere's and Grenadier's are great but they have limited ammo. (Thoughts?)

The 2 tanks are a must, but I already have 4 SE tanks, so maybe not? I just love Heinz Rondorf as a Flamm, so not changing that, and Albert as a Pz4. So not changing that, but do I need 6 tanks?

AA guns are out for consideration as I do not have those great heroes for either unit, level Bombers are not making the cut.

+3 Attack arty I have 2 of them, but the Sturmpanzer has the most kills so he is the one I am taking. I am thinking Wurfrahmen as that has the most flexibility, it's greatest downfall is it's incredible cost and vulnerability to every attack.

So this leaves +4 Att Pioniere and +3 Def AT.

The Anti-tank is something I am seriously considering as a +3 Defensive 3 star Anti-tank will be devastating in the West, and Anti-tanks are difficult to level up and get good heroes on. (Thoughts?)

A +4 Att Pioniere is a difficult unit to let go of, but I am probably the least attached to him as I already have 2 great inf's to work with.

So, I guess my final thoughts as of right now is do I take that +3 Attack Fighter instead of Otto Kittel, and do I take that +3 Defensive Anti-Tank beast with me instead of Helmut Lent?

Thoughts?

I really appreciate the advice.
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Re: How and why so many AAR's

Post by TSPC37730 »

I'd prefer to lose the fighters with the negative defensive penalties. You want to take as little expensive damage as possible.

On the contrary with regards to Lent. In air-to-air combat, initiative is a key stat. Check out the initiative value with Lent in a FW190G. He'd be able to do double duty as a fighter & bomber. If you top him off with a nice attack hero, he's all the more valuable.

Gebirgsjäger are nice in terms of mobility, but, they have a weak HA value of 3 in the '43 versions. Compare vs 6 for regular '43 infantry, 7 for '43 pioneers & 8 for '43 grenadiers. I'd choose between those 3. At some point, they may need to go into action vs armor in close terrain. In fact, I'd bet on it.

I'm not sure about the artillery. You can start from scratch & if you get a spotting hero or something just as lame, you can sell it off & try again. I think that's the route I'd go.

If you have a +4 attack Pioneer, that unit must have at least 2 heroes. If your +3 AT unit is a single hero, I'd go with that vs the Pioneer. Good luck.
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Re: How and why so many AAR's

Post by dalfrede »

I made Oleh Dir a pioneer, was about to upgrade to 43, when i realized that I had spent the last few scenarios resupplying him all the time.
So I went back and made him a MG 34 [nico's mod; mx ammo=8] and he has 200 more kills through Minsk41.

Aside from a occasional Churchill, the Pz4x are better than any allied tank until 44. You don't need the AT.
Think 39 not 43, forest and towns need infantry and artillery to take/defend, you have 4 SE tanks, think balance.
There comes a time on every project when it is time to shoot the engineer and ship the damn thing.
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Re: How and why so many AAR's

Post by NightPhoenix »

Although i just started my 42'-43' West adventure i will try to help. ;)

I would personally not take the +3 def AT-gun, but instead go for Heinrich bar, this will give you 2 excellent fighters instead of 1. That extra initiative will help you big time. As for that infantry, I think Oleh Dir can be a Pioneer, because even at 5 movement he doesn't need a transport, Helmut winsberger does, you could make him a grenadeer, he needs the trucks regardless. Also note that there are only mountains in Italy 43'-44' and there should not be any afterwards. I will be changing him to a Grenadeer 43' once the opportunity arises. Though i don't think it's that necessary in 42. Heinz rondorf as Flamm and Albert in any tank i guess are easy choices. It just means you will have to invest in new infantry once you start the DLC, which can be challenging, but i think it will be rewarding ultimately because the heroes are just that good. It might be handy to see which free units and heroes you get in the Western Path and buy new units accordingly. Most likely buying mostly infantry and artillery. (maybe a bomber or two?)

I'm only 3 missions in, so my advice might not work in the long run. ;) Cheers and good luck on that Western Cammpaign.
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Re: How and why so many AAR's

Post by hurly »

so here is the hurly verdict on the Western Trail (which I played through once on Colonel and deep into 44 both on Colonel, which basically means I have seen it all, but not on every Difficulty and not very often, so there might be other guys with way better advice)

I will try to implement a few things into my ideas (beside avoiding Spoilers)

Just a few ground rules that will be there

You will start with 9 Units of your Choice from your Core
You will lose any Prestige over 2000 after Turn 1, so you can spent like crazy on said 9 Units (in this case about 30000 Prestige) to make them as good as money can buy at this point
Prestige will always be low in comparison to the East Campaign, you will probably see 5 digits on the Prestige very seldom or depending on your luck never.
This first Campaign is 42 and 43 combined, so you can expect 42 to be over pretty soon (about 5 scenarios in), which means for a German Army with low Prestige count. The obligatory Upgrades --- all Infantry in 43 --- Fighters to FW 190 (out of Family Upgrade) --- Tanks to become out of Family Panthers or Tigers as soon as possible --- Tac Bombers have a lot of Upgrades as well --- Mobile AT are finally usable and good units are all all quite costly and Prestige for it has to be earned along you way. (Don't wanna spoil anything, but your army will grow in number soon and to your max allowance or over, so buying units is not a major Factor early on)
This is adjusted to Guderian Level which means Scenarios are 5 Turns shorter (which is sometimes a good thing)
but in general means you gotta be mobile and fast
With goose we have a Commander who is very aggressive, causes a lot of surrenders (which will generate some welcome extra Prestige) and can go through through any city or entrenchment without a lot of trouble



So let's start with Tanks

There are 4 SE Tanks available which is a good thing.

Which brings us to the big question

Panzer III or Panzer IV ?

Panzer III is available as Model J/1, Panzer IV as F/2 starting GC42/43

Panzer III is probably a bit more versatile in its Top Editions Model L or M or N at basically the same Cost and can be easily switched for each scenario
Panzer IV start to get an edge in Performance from Model F/2 onwards and the latest Model J is clearly better than any Panzer III Model, has twice the Fuel and can stand its ground way into 44 and probably beyond if there are no funds to afford a Tiger or Panther Upgrade right away. Probably the Model J is even serviceable to jump the Bridge til the Tiger 2 comes along

So my advice on Tanks is upgrade all SE Tanks to Panzer IV F/2 + maximum Overstrength

Then there are Special Multi Layered Heroes on 2 Regular Tanks available
One is a Panzer IV anyway so the same procedure as with the SE Tanks applies

Which gives us 5 good multipurpose Tanks to work with right away

Now the Flammpanzer Special Hero --- This unit has its flaws and must be sheltered in combat a bit, but is devastating to soft Units especially Arty and AA. Of course its an Infantry Killer Extraordinaire as well and good vs Bunkers, but I think it works best vs Arty. The thinking here is can I keep it away from AT, Tanks and Enemy Air Force long enough to enjoy its strenghts and when will it be time to switch to a heavy Tank. Or just go the conservative Route and make it a Panzer IV right away.

My Verdict here keep the Flamm and you have a good Tank squad at hand.

So Unit Count of Choice is down to 7

Tac Bombers

Rudel is a given as he makes any unit the best on the Battlefield
He sits it in a Stuka which is great Bomber vs almost anything and with Rudel inside a certain Power Unit. The latter Ju87G Tankbuster loses some strenght vs Infantry and Arty but is devastating as a Tank Killer

Still i would consider switching Rudel to a Bf 110 which has some nice upgrade path til the Me 410 so he can serve as all purpose Mix as a Fighter Bomber and gains a lot of versatility especially in Fuel with the later Models.

This is a 50-50 decision for me (unlike in the East Campaign, where I keep Rudel in his Stuka)

For both Decisions there will be some options much later with the FW 190 Tac Bomber or the Do 335 or even the Arado Jet Bomber depending on Prestige available and tasks at hand.

Then there is Lent with his immense Initiative +6
For me he is lock as a unit, especially in a Bf110 where he is a bonafide Fighter as well. And he can go the same Upgrade Path as above seen with Rudel

So I would take the 2 Tac Bombers as Bf110 + Full Overstrength with me

which brings down the Count to 5

Fighters

Right now there are ME 109 F available and the FW 190 is available soon

We have 2 Special Multilayered Heroes and Att+3 Hero in the Portfolio of Options

Bar with his 3 good Attributes is a given

and then it comes down to the other 2 whom to prefer
Maybe it is a wash maybe it is not between Kittel and Att+3 Fighter but would prefer the multilayered hero if just for some historical flavour


with a double Bf 110 squad (Rudel and Lent) at hand already a 1 Fighter Solution can be a viable option
I would upgrade each Bf 109 to Fw 190 as soon as possible, but a Green FW190 in 42 can still hold its own and costs the same as a not in the Family Upgrade if needed

So my Verdict

I would go with 2 Fighter (Bar and Kittel) probably with 1 but definitely not with 3

Open Core Slot Count down to 3 with 6 Core Units chosen (1 of them optional)

Infantry

Oleh Dir is as fast as a Tank without a Transport no matter which Infantry Unit is attached to this Hero
So he can walk anyway. I'm quite open in my decision to any Infantry Unit available, especially from 43 onwards
Each one has its assets, each one has its flaws. And a Vanilla '43 Infantry with its equal 6 Attack for Soft or Hard Attacks incl. 3 Range Movement and good Ammo of 6 Rounds is a good compromise as well (not in 42 though, but you can go with a Grenadier and "downgrade" for free) Even a Para has some interesting aspects despite the low ammo, its 43 edition has the same Attack as a Gebirgsjäger, but features Bunker Busting Trait and is good in close Terrain

This may go down to personal preference or just a good feeling. Goose has a knack for the Gebirgsjäger, many use it as an Engineer/Pionier but I second what dalfrede said. A Engineer/Pionier is quite often used as a first attacker because he does not get a rugged defense and you are always in a position to use replacements, better more replacements than on other Infantry types.

I would go with Oleh as a Grenadier as you cant go wrong here and if you miss that one hex Range for each Turn can go to Infantry for free in 43.

I'm not so sold on the idea to give that Wirnsberger Hero (Att+2,Ini+3) a fix place in my magnificent 9 core especially not on Guderian. Don't get me wrong here, You can't fail with this unit, I'm just not sure if it is not better to choose a Unit that is faster resp. does not need a Transport to cover some ground. And any Infantry is among the cheaper Units in the Market so why not take a more Expensive Unit Now (even without a Special Hero) and hope for some Green Infantry to level up in the process.

So my Verdict
Oleh Dir is in as a Grenadier, Wirnsberger not resp on my Long List depending on what kind of heroes I got on other more expensive units

Open Core Slots down to 2 + a Wirnsberger in close Reserve

AA seems to be a no Consideration Unit as there are no real good Heroes in the Army
Recon is out of question anyway

Anti Tank
an Def+3 Mobile AT may be a good Unit down the Road, worth a consideration for sure, but I'm not really sure which Unit is the Aim as End for the Path. Shoot it, I'm a positive Thinker and certainly Pro Tank not an Anti-anything Guy (This is a real good argument isn't it ?)

so what do we have right now

We have 6 Tanks, 5 of them All Purpose, 1 specialized on Soft Targets
we have 4 Air Units -- 2 Fighters and 2 Tac Bombers with some pretty Good Air Fighting Capabilities
we have 1 Infantry that has Speed has Initiative and some good Fighting Skills

we have not any kind of Artillery yet and no Level Bomber

Artillery
Here I would take any Range + 1 Hero over any Attack+ 3 Hero or a Movement Hero
and while it is nice have a 4 Range Arty still prefer the Mobile Wurfrahmen and go with it because of it's devastating Soft Attack and heavy Price Tag to acquire later on. It will be a preferred Target for the enemy but with Range 3 and some Air Cover a good Can Opener to any entrenchment. End of the line Target somewhere don the Road is the towed 30cm Nebelwerfer, which is despite its low ammo the best German Arty Unit and can be converted for free resp the cost of a transport

Now back to the no Wirnsberger idea
Cost of units is not a Factor at the Start of the Western Trail, but later on it may be
If you got 2 Range+1 Heroes in the Army a 2nd Mobile Wurfrahmen is a valid idea and certainly a very usable unit.
And for me a Range +1 Hero is >>> than Wirnsberger Att+2 Ini+3 tag. Again that one depends on style of play a bit, but for goose and his all out swarming tactics with heavy arty fire to suppress maybe the better option.

So I will give one maybe 2 Core Slots to Arty with Range +1 Heroes if they are there

Last Group Strat Bombers
They level up pretty fast so experience already at hand is not too much of a Factor, Cost of getting a Good One maybe is
The Do 217 cost almost 500 Prestige even more with Overstrength which should be a 3 Star Unit by now.
Starting Price for a He 177 is over 500 if you buy it, upgrading from a He 111 is about 200 and keeping Overstrength as it is in the Family

The He 177 is maybe a bit better, but I like the Fuel of the Do 217 so if one of the Fab 9 is to become a Level Bomber it would be the Do 217 for me, but only if there is a 3 Star Strat Bomber available. Without giving away Spoilers I think a Level Bomber might be very handy in early 1942 Scenarios and the more I think about it the more I like the Idea of keeping one of them


So what do we have now

We Have
4 SE Tanks PZ IV F/2 with Full Overstrength ---> All Purpose Tanks
1 Multilayered Hero Pz IV F/2 with Full Overstrength ------> All Purpose Tanks
1 Multilayered Flammpanzer with Full Overstrength -------> Soft Target Specialist
*Note as Prestige Does not matter in the Choosing Process you can also Switch these Heroes on the Regular Tanks and their Units (Eg making Kerscher the Flamm Dude and Rondorf the Pz IV Guy or flamm them both, I don't like it, but i's not a matter of resources right now)

2 Fighters in Bf109 F (with a at least 1 Hero in the Cockpit)
2 Tac Bombers BF110 F (with at least 1 Very Special Hero in the Cockpit) capable of Dogfighting as well as of attacking Ground Units
1 Infantry Unit Grenadier with excellent Speed

these are the Locks for me with small afterthought on the Second Fighter

leaving open 2 Slots

I Recommend at least 1 Arty with a Range Hero and would go with the Wurfrahmen

leaving open 1 slot

which could either be

Tie ----- another Wurfrahmen with a Range Hero or a 3 Overstrength Level Bomber Do 217. Bomber a bit more risky than the Wurfrahmen
close behind and certainly a safe choice the Wirnsberger Hero Infantry Unit (Att+2, Ini+3)


Well hope this helps
and my off the book thoughts might be appealing or not
I still have a hard time evaluating General goose' Special Attack Skills and it was definitely easier for me to transfer that into Afrika Korps Advice than into GC West advice.
Last edited by hurly on Sun Jul 16, 2017 3:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: How and why so many AAR's

Post by TSPC37730 »

Nice post Hurly. So many choices...

I could never bear to part with so many good heroes. Not to mention all the ones I might build up on my own. I guess that's why I've always played the west campaigns with the corps provided.
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Re: How and why so many AAR's

Post by dalfrede »

Goose

It just stuck me that we have all missed the BIG question here.

What does a Lutheran give up for Lent?

Christendom awaits the answer. :D
There comes a time on every project when it is time to shoot the engineer and ship the damn thing.
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Re: How and why so many AAR's

Post by goose_2 »

dalfrede wrote:Goose

It just stuck me that we have all missed the BIG question here.

What does a Lutheran give up for Lent?

Christendom awaits the answer. :D

What does a Lutheran give up during Lent? Well the obvious answer is that we try giving up Pietism, Jesus forgives the rest ;)

For outward bodily fasting and prayer are good and noble practices, but of most importance is one who receives the Sacrament worthily. ;)

How is that for a Lutheran answer?
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Re: How and why so many AAR's

Post by dalfrede »

Helmut was concerned his BF110 might be left in the cold Russian winter. :(

He is happy to hear he is more important than Pietism. :D

He hopes. :|
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Re: How and why so many AAR's

Post by goose_2 »

dalfrede wrote:Helmut was concerned his BF110 might be left in the cold Russian winter. :(

He is happy to hear he is more important than Pietism. :D

He hopes. :|
Oh I see you were talking about Helmut, I misunderstood. ;)

I am still going back and forth on a few things in considering which 9 will make the cut. I have been taking all the posts I have received on this under careful consideration, what I am contemplating right now, based on Hurly's suggestion of possibly changing Albert to a Flamm, I am thoroughly considering having 2 Flamm's since I already have 4 SE Tanks, and then considering using either 2 range heroed arty's or the +3 att and 1 range arty. Those arty's seem to be key to my playstyle, and I would love to be continuing my rapid playstyle on Guderian.

I will pull the trigger this weekend.
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Re: How and why so many AAR's

Post by goose_2 »

Ok you guys have been so helpful on this forum. I am now at a place where I need some thoughts again.
In the East I am at Novoanninsky and the first 3 Rounds have been absolutely perfect, but now I am in Round 4 uncertain about how to proceed, as I am facing in front of me:
5 T-34/40s all with essentially 18 Str and that pesky KV-1A, which thankfully was reduced to 12 Str thanks to that excellent 3rd Round. The problem comes in those 2 SPAAGs with 15 Str each, the one in the back protecting many units is the real bugger. As if that wasn't enough I have 2 15 Str Katyusha's and 76.2mm arty's to contend with along with that pesky 15 Str KV-2 that is just so inconveniently placed. What to do?

The real reason I am here though is to pick your brain about my West Campaign on Guderian:
I am at Syracuse 1943 so first time I can upgrade to some much nicer equipment.
Problem is prestige is at a minimum. 2926 to be exact.

1) I have essentially 2 Infantry to upgrade. I feel that this is not near enough infantry and I need to have more. Any suggestions on number of satisfactory infantry to have at this point, and what the makeup of said infantry should be?

2) I have 4 SE Pz4G's and Albert Kerscher and Heinz Rondorf are both Flamm's and an assortment of various captured tanks. Any advice on upgrades, My Flamm's have been vulnerable, and they are expensive to replace, but they have been nice to use as mobile infantry. Should I keep or upgrade, and upgrade to what? Tiger? That would kill my soft cap. Should I do it to any of my SE Tanks?

3) Arty: I have the 2 I imported from my 39-41 playthrough, both still do not have a 2nd hero, I am regretting changing them to Wurfrahmen as they are incredibly vulnerable as I have been unable to protect them as I would normally. I have 4 green artys, but I want to upgrade my 2 bad boys to something a little more resilient, one is +3 Attack, the other is +1 Range. Any thoughts?

4) I have no AA, should I rectify that, and with what? I have never purchased mobile AA, only 88's but I am not sure how those would work in this highly mobile playthrough. Thoughts?

5) 4 planes currently 2 green FW-190a's and 2 BF 109F's Heinrich Bar and +3 Att fighter. Any thoughts on what if anything I should upgrade them 2.

6) My 2 Bf-110G's have to become the ME-410A's right, I mean there is no discussion on that right, or should I consider the Fw190F?

Please help.

I appreciate all the advice given right before I started my Blind through on Guderian, it has been extremely helpful.

You guys are the best.
Thanks!
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Re: How and why so many AAR's

Post by hurly »

goose_2 wrote:Ok you guys have been so helpful on this forum. I am now at a place where I need some thoughts again.
In the East I am at Novoanninsky and the first 3 Rounds have been absolutely perfect, but now I am in Round 4 uncertain about how to proceed, as I am facing in front of me:
5 T-34/40s all with essentially 18 Str and that pesky KV-1A, which thankfully was reduced to 12 Str thanks to that excellent 3rd Round. The problem comes in those 2 SPAAGs with 15 Str each, the one in the back protecting many units is the real bugger. As if that wasn't enough I have 2 15 Str Katyusha's and 76.2mm arty's to contend with along with that pesky 15 Str KV-2 that is just so inconveniently placed. What to do?

The real reason I am here though is to pick your brain about my West Campaign on Guderian:
I am at Syracuse 1943 so first time I can upgrade to some much nicer equipment.
Problem is prestige is at a minimum. 2926 to be exact.

1) I have essentially 2 Infantry to upgrade. I feel that this is not near enough infantry and I need to have more. Any suggestions on number of satisfactory infantry to have at this point, and what the makeup of said infantry should be?

2) I have 4 SE Pz4G's and Albert Kerscher and Heinz Rondorf are both Flamm's and an assortment of various captured tanks. Any advice on upgrades, My Flamm's have been vulnerable, and they are expensive to replace, but they have been nice to use as mobile infantry. Should I keep or upgrade, and upgrade to what? Tiger? That would kill my soft cap. Should I do it to any of my SE Tanks?

3) Arty: I have the 2 I imported from my 39-41 playthrough, both still do not have a 2nd hero, I am regretting changing them to Wurfrahmen as they are incredibly vulnerable as I have been unable to protect them as I would normally. I have 4 green artys, but I want to upgrade my 2 bad boys to something a little more resilient, one is +3 Attack, the other is +1 Range. Any thoughts?

4) I have no AA, should I rectify that, and with what? I have never purchased mobile AA, only 88's but I am not sure how those would work in this highly mobile playthrough. Thoughts?

5) 4 planes currently 2 green FW-190a's and 2 BF 109F's Heinrich Bar and +3 Att fighter. Any thoughts on what if anything I should upgrade them 2.

6) My 2 Bf-110G's have to become the ME-410A's right, I mean there is no discussion on that right, or should I consider the Fw190F?

Please help.

I appreciate all the advice given right before I started my Blind through on Guderian, it has been extremely helpful.

You guys are the best.
Thanks!

hi bro

i'm in a hurry so a little bit shorter than usual

I see you have already reached 1943 in Italy that's fine

Prestige is low as expected and afaik it will stay that way for some time

so just short and crisp regarding you questions


I started a a parallel 42/43 West Campaign on Guderian when you first asked for some advice just to make sure I know what I'm talking about but cause I was short on spare time lately; I'm just a little bit (3 scenarios) ahead of you at Salerno Landing/Catanzaro split

question 1)
I have only Oleh Dir as a Grenadier with me + the awarded 2 Recruit Units and the Kradschützen
Experienced no major Problems yet with basically just the 1 Infantry (Krad and Recruits sit on the Bench usually)

question 2)
Have only 1 Flamm along with the 4 SE Tanks and all the Pick up Stuff that was given out by the Game
NO Tigers or Panthers yet for me

question 3)
2 Wurfrahmen with Range + 1 for me that have the same Problems as you encounter, they are Prime Targets, but i'm not sure what will change if you convert them to anything else. The new Stuff might be targeted as much as the wurfrahmen so I can't help you with that. And the absence of the Wurfrahmen might change the Attack pattern of the AI in so far as then other Units are the Prime Targets (I suspect your Flamms will be attacked even harder so it may be a wash) But is it really so bad to know that the Wurfrahmen are the known Prime Targets ? you can use that knowledge to your advantage

leading to question 4)
AA no spoilers but don't buy an AA Unit NOW unless you want more than 1 or 2. Whatever you do there might be some AA Unit waiting for you soon and you can't avoid it anyway, so it's not really a Spoiler to tell you about it.
Ask the question again after your AA changed which will happen pretty soon

question 5)
I really like the FW190A so it's my choice of upgrade for the Timeline, later the Me262 is the next Top Unit tro go for but that some future thing. FW 190 Fighter all the way for me now and obviously even before I upgrade my Tanks

question 6)
as much as I like the FW190 as a Fighter, I'm not at all convinced with it as a Tac Bomber especially not the 190F Model. What is wrong with Me 410 especially wih Rudel and Lent operating them ? Maybe I'm biased here but I think the FW 190F is a lateral Move at best and a costly one as well. I'm not in the Timeline for it yet, but I remember I waited for the Do335 on my "ancient" run on "Colonel about 2 years ago and not quite sure if I even upgraded the 2 Me 410 at all or maybe very late in 1945 for the final Scenarios.

sorry for the quite vague hints

hope to find some time soon to take a closer look to Panzer Corps very soon, but right now there are some more urgent things to solve, as my new Car is more of a mystery and raises more questions than the Panzer Corps game.
And no it's not a Problem with the Car, the User is the Problem :oops: as he is just flat out not prepared for all the new Stuff and Gimmicks that come with it ---- just feels a bit like I have an encounter with said "Wunderwaffen Arsenal" in Panzer Corps
NightPhoenix
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Re: How and why so many AAR's

Post by NightPhoenix »

As for Novoanninsky, maybe retreat a little bit and let the AI come to you, allow it to make mistakes and ambush it. Once 2/3 of the T-34/40's are gone, you can focus on the remaining units, and the artillery will not be a problem anymore. ( Also i will be interested to see how you deal with the Ilovlya counterattacks. ;) )

1) As for infantry, i will be going for a maximum of 2 per class myself. This will allow you to adapt to any situation probably, and get them to a reasonable experience level. ( I don't know if it will be best, since I'm going blind here myself )

2) I would try to go for expensive SE-tanks only, as you mentioned the soft cap is more unforgiving in the West, and you need expensive planes (It's generally over 400 prestige per plane). I would try to upgrade the least amount possible to save that prestige, and beat the levels with what you have. If you can take the same amount of damage on a weaker unit, and still finish the mission you don't need to upgrade. I don't know about Guderian, but i really only expect to upgrade 1 SE tank to a tiger in 43 IF i have the prestige. (3000 seems like a juicy number to be honest, i have 900 at the end of Dieppe. Do you get a large boost going into 43'?)

3) Do you really want to sink more prestige into this? You will have to upgrade them again later if you switch now. I would leave them on the sidetracks for a while and only use your green artillery to give them some exp. Later on you might be able to protect them again. ( if the missions on Guderian are even beatable with green units like that, otherwise StugIII/StuH42 for both i think, they will allow you to keep going and will hardly ever be targeted by enemy bombers. It's cheap and will keep the soft cap low )

4) Mobile AA is okey, but generally weaker than 88's. If you buy it, go for the 7/1, it has higher RoF compared to the 7/2. For Guderian you need to be more mobile than on Rommel, so it might be more useful to go for the mobile AA. I bought 2 88's and they were devastating, helping me take out the spitfires without taking any losses.

5/6) As for fighters, the 190A seems to be the best compared to the costs, i would maybe get 1 Me262 in the end, for emergencies. I would go for the ME-410A too, the FW190 costs 100 prestige more, for less fuel and spotting, and a very marginal increase in attack defense and initiative, i would think it's not worth it.
dalfrede
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Re: How and why so many AAR's

Post by dalfrede »

Goose

I tend learn the hard way, I played US Corp on my IPAD to DDay three times. Restarting each time to build a different [better?] army. For example keeping a Long Tom to support the NE Brits in Kasserine. The fourth time was on my Mac using a modded Nico’s equip mod through the end.

So you have already messed up. :) How to fix?

1) Upgrade Flames to Pathers, one at a time.

2) Upgrade SE to Tigers, one at a time, weakest first.

3) Wurfrahmen
a) buy a mobile AA and weld to Wurf or,
b) upgrade to Brummbar [R+1], or StuG 42; [AD=12]

4) ME410.

5) FW190.

Order 4), 4), 1), 2), 3), 1), 2), 3), 5), 2) . . .

It can take several scenarios.
There comes a time on every project when it is time to shoot the engineer and ship the damn thing.
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Re: How and why so many AAR's

Post by TSPC37730 »

I'll start with the west campaign for now. Those days when you were playing in the east with 5 figures of prestige must seem like bittersweet memories now...

1) I think the best choice for infantry is the standard '43 version. It has a decent HA value for attacking tanks & AFV's in woods, towns & hills. Since transport is probably an unaffordable luxury, the movement of 3 vs 2 for a grenadier makes it the better choice. If you have an infantry unit with a movement hero, a grenadier may be a workable option. The ammo of 5 is always a bit frustrating though. As an aside, I've always had a fondness for playing the GC with at least one SE Grenadier unit. The one extra ammo gives them a capacity of 6, making them the equal of the standard infantry in that regard. Keep at least one infantry as a Gebirgsjäger - if you envision the terrain of Italy you'll likely want the mobility in the hills at some point. Overall, you're quite right in saying 2 infantry isn't enough. They're essential in close terrain & their prestige costs without transport is reasonable. I'd suggest you develop a variety of them, but stay away from Pioneer & paratroop units.

2) The Flammpanzers have to go. They are simply too weak & are too much of a magnet for Allied air & armor attacks. You'll keep using prestige you can't afford to waste on replacements & you'll eventually lose them. Best to leverage their heroes against at least a Pz IV upgrade. I like the thought of upgrading one of your SE tanks to a Tiger due to the soft cap benefits. Placed carefully, it can be an immovable roadblock that can stifle an advance for an extended time. Take stock of your captured tanks. Consider the ones with a decent amount of kills & experience for an upgrade. Sell the rest. I expect that if you don't do that now the decision will ultimately be forced upon you.

3) I think you should consider converting your +1 range artillery to a StuH42. With the +1, it has some ability to fire from behind & over your defenders. The ammo count of 6 is the equal or better of anything mobile save for the Brumbar. Ground & air defense values of 15 & 12 are solid. Lastly, if you take advantage of the switchable feature, drop the gun & go into assault gun direct fire mode, the SA of 10 is better than even a Tiger I. You can deliver a strong & surprising punch against an advancing infantry unit this way. I also like the StuG III cousin AT units. Again, solid numbers & a great value at a base cost of 353 pp. As to the +3, my choice would be the 150 mm towed artillery.

4) If you look at German WWII pictures from the western front, it should be quite apparent where you're wrong here. No AA? It was everywhere historically - mostly due to overwhelming Allied air superiority. For starters, I'd suggest 1 88 & 1 SdKfz 7/1. The 88 is switchable making it quite versatile as a tank opener. The SdKfz 7/1 offers mobility, the 20mm ROF & potential XP bonuses. While I love the be-everywhere mobility of the SdKfz 10/4 - it's too frustratingly weak.

5) Fighters. I'd recommend maintaining very limited expectations for your air units in this campaign. You're always playing outnumbered, meaning every time you take to the air you're at significant risk. A mass attack, an unseen AA unit or simply bad die rolls can be devastating if not outright fatal. Even if you do manage to limp away from the fight, you'll be faced with a choice that is far more difficult than it was on the Ost Front: Watering down your prize fighter unit with green replacements or using elite replacements that you know you can't afford? I strongly recommend deploying a generous compliment of AA units in the west. With AA, you get essentially free, and occasionally multiple, no-risk attacks. Lastly, one of the best arguments for AA is the prestige cost. Every fighter you deploy will be increasingly well over 400 pp/unit. A SdKfz 7/1 is barely half of that. With a base sticker price of 206, it pairs nicely with say, a 600 pp Elefant, yielding a nearly perfect total of just over 400 pp/unit.

During the occasions that I do use my fighters, I keep them far away from the front. There they linger until a target such as an AA damaged fighter or an unescorted strategic bomber presents itself. I then mass attack & wipe out the attackers - hopefully taking no losses at all. But those opportunities can be frustratingly rare. You ultimately may wonder if those deployment slots might be better filled with other units.

6) I don't know about your FB units. See item 5 I guess. My choice would be the FW190F with the ultimate upgrade to a FW190G for survivability reasons. But, again, how often will you be able to actually use it?


Just my thoughts for consideration. Good luck & hope you'll continue to let us know how it goes.
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Re: How and why so many AAR's

Post by goose_2 »

Thanks guys for the many thoughts around the West playthrough, I am truly enjoying the newness and dynamic play style, it is all so unexpected. So much fun. I am pondering all of the advice I have received and will decide what to do, probably this weekend.

In the East however I pulled the trigger last night. I decided to move my planes away from thos nasty AA SPAAG's until they could be eliminated, which was not long and use my planes on the peripherals, as for the tanks I weakened where I could and outright destroyed/surrendered on others, I have limited the damage to my units, the most vulnerable attacks being from their persistent air force and against vulnerable soft infantry attacks.

I am on turn 9 and once you eliminate those 2 SPAAGs your air force has free reign to destroy the enemy with impunity on open terrain. I am quite pleased with my progress minimal damage to most units and confident I will secure the Decisive Victory in the next couple of days.

I checked my prestige count and would you believe I actually have more prestige currently than in my Field Marshall run. I am beginning to feel more confident about this Manstein playthrough, we shall see what the latter years does to that confidence. :oops:

Thanks again for the feedback it is much appreciated.
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