Stalingrad, the Docks, and the Ruins
Moderators: Slitherine Core, Panzer Corps Moderators, Panzer Corps Design
Re: Stalingrad, the Docks, and the Ruins
Any idea of how many units the soviets can get across if there is no air interdiction on "the docks?" I tried playing a version where I focused my airforces on assiting my push North, but I found waves of SMG troops comming from the south...this is the hardest scenario I have faced so far.
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hmshood
- Senior Corporal - Ju 87G
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Re: Stalingrad, the Docks, and the Ruins
CUSTER had better chance than I did in "Storming Stalingrad"....He only lost 1/3 of his battalion...whereas most of my core was got shot to hell (except for my Arty's)..Prestige I had hoarded went fast as we adsorbed hoards of those Russkie Dudes pounding the crap outta my folks.....I'm told "Docks & Ruins" is a slightly easier...we shall see....and woo-hoo...I get more Italians to manage....good grief!
Re: Stalingrad, the Docks, and the Ruins
Old topic, but I can't stress enough how good this tactic is. As I was struggling with the hole Stalingrad campaign, this tactic - for a change - made this scenario very easy. Just to summarize in few short steps. Bear in mind, that it was my first gameplay, I didn't reach the DV, but I would surely acquire it on the second run.
1. 90% of core units on the north and quickly rush towards the airport but watch out, there are a group of tanks. Few of these (your northern force) can be advancing towards north-ease and east - not much of resistance there,
2. Few strong tank units near airport to counter-attack and recapture the objective (north-west),
3. After north is cleared (as well as north-east and east), rush* towards two objectives near the south-west edge of the map. From this direction strong enemy tank force will approach, so be cautious. The objective near the river is fairly simple, 2 pieces of artillery and 3-4 troops will suffice.
It's important to have a nice artillery support, in my case mixed sFH18/K18 with wurfrahmen. It all went very smoothly.
If you have plenty of tanks, you could put some in the center and move them through clear terrain towards the two objectives on the south-east. It should pay off on when doing step 3.
* Don't leave anything, that was my mistake because I thought that the enemy would arrive from outside of the map from north and north-east. To tell the truth, the only attack came from the south-east.
1. 90% of core units on the north and quickly rush towards the airport but watch out, there are a group of tanks. Few of these (your northern force) can be advancing towards north-ease and east - not much of resistance there,
2. Few strong tank units near airport to counter-attack and recapture the objective (north-west),
3. After north is cleared (as well as north-east and east), rush* towards two objectives near the south-west edge of the map. From this direction strong enemy tank force will approach, so be cautious. The objective near the river is fairly simple, 2 pieces of artillery and 3-4 troops will suffice.
It's important to have a nice artillery support, in my case mixed sFH18/K18 with wurfrahmen. It all went very smoothly.
If you have plenty of tanks, you could put some in the center and move them through clear terrain towards the two objectives on the south-east. It should pay off on when doing step 3.
* Don't leave anything, that was my mistake because I thought that the enemy would arrive from outside of the map from north and north-east. To tell the truth, the only attack came from the south-east.
Re: Stalingrad, the Docks, and the Ruins
about the docks: from another thread
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Re: Stalingrad Docks - Arrghh!!
Postby hugh2711 » 04 Aug 2017 13:42
(As mostly said in the previous comments)
I actually find stalingrad docks quite easy IFF:
1) you dont go for a DV, from a prestige point of view I dont think it is worth it.
2) Use the now redundant non-upgraded strudel for spotting over the river.
3) you should have a (farmed by now, 4 star and heroed) he117a which kills a transport in one go; prioritise smg followed by guards for complete destruction in transport on the river. I also have another strat bomber doing the same as well but sometimes it requires one of the free stukas to kill it off after using that one. Use stukas for when it gets near the shore. They are much easier to deal with on the river and if you destroy ALL the non-conscript transports the scenario is alot easier. you also have the free strat bomber as well.
4) you should have farmed quite alot of heroed/experienced artilliary by now. Dont advance without double arty cover for every piece and when attacking make sure the piece you are attacking is fully supressed. Deducters youtube video is very good to watch.
5) you should have farmed some heroed and experienced SE tanks by now which you can use in the NON-Urban areas only to take out enemy tanks, dont use them in the town hexes.
6) your strongest fighter should be over the river providing cover for the he117, you should have one decent fighter at opposite ends to take each take out (most of) the one fighter that are at set positions at the beginning. They can be finished off with the two Bf110g's you should have by now: one from spoils of war (mine is usually 4 star by now and has another hero on top of the A+1 i+6 it had to start) and one the upgraded strudel (awesome). remember to kill them off rather than let them recover, dont expose yourself if you are not going to kill them off completely. both fighters and ground units."
As for the other stalingrad scenario, similarly
1) , 4), 5)
I also deal with all the partisans behind the airport first with some of my best units, then use the units that did that to reinforce your very SLOW advance through the urban hexes. Use the aux italians etc for taking risks, for cannon fodder and protecting flanks. careful prepositioning of air units should mostly take care of the air opposition (similar to number 6). you might have to take a few points damage to take them out.
"
Re: Stalingrad Docks - Arrghh!!
Postby hugh2711 » 04 Aug 2017 13:42
(As mostly said in the previous comments)
I actually find stalingrad docks quite easy IFF:
1) you dont go for a DV, from a prestige point of view I dont think it is worth it.
2) Use the now redundant non-upgraded strudel for spotting over the river.
3) you should have a (farmed by now, 4 star and heroed) he117a which kills a transport in one go; prioritise smg followed by guards for complete destruction in transport on the river. I also have another strat bomber doing the same as well but sometimes it requires one of the free stukas to kill it off after using that one. Use stukas for when it gets near the shore. They are much easier to deal with on the river and if you destroy ALL the non-conscript transports the scenario is alot easier. you also have the free strat bomber as well.
4) you should have farmed quite alot of heroed/experienced artilliary by now. Dont advance without double arty cover for every piece and when attacking make sure the piece you are attacking is fully supressed. Deducters youtube video is very good to watch.
5) you should have farmed some heroed and experienced SE tanks by now which you can use in the NON-Urban areas only to take out enemy tanks, dont use them in the town hexes.
6) your strongest fighter should be over the river providing cover for the he117, you should have one decent fighter at opposite ends to take each take out (most of) the one fighter that are at set positions at the beginning. They can be finished off with the two Bf110g's you should have by now: one from spoils of war (mine is usually 4 star by now and has another hero on top of the A+1 i+6 it had to start) and one the upgraded strudel (awesome). remember to kill them off rather than let them recover, dont expose yourself if you are not going to kill them off completely. both fighters and ground units."
As for the other stalingrad scenario, similarly
1) , 4), 5)
I also deal with all the partisans behind the airport first with some of my best units, then use the units that did that to reinforce your very SLOW advance through the urban hexes. Use the aux italians etc for taking risks, for cannon fodder and protecting flanks. careful prepositioning of air units should mostly take care of the air opposition (similar to number 6). you might have to take a few points damage to take them out.
Re: Stalingrad, the Docks, and the Ruins
Two suggestions for the Stalingrad scenerios:
1) Take last two VH on same turn, may limit triggered counter attack to one turn.
2) Multipurpose Flamm to Infantry, close trait is now hard coded into Inf, does not work now.
Results from selected units for three Stalingrad scenerios [Stalingrad Assault, Stalingrad Docks, Stalingrad Ruins]
Name Type Kills/Losses
1st Pz Flamm 338/2
2nd Pz Flamm 282/5
Heinz Rondorf Flamm 358/2
Albert Kerscher Pz4G 94/6
Oleh Dir MG42 198/7
Helmut Wirnsberger Krad 119/5
I may keep Flamms through 45.
Reconmove anyone?
1) Take last two VH on same turn, may limit triggered counter attack to one turn.
2) Multipurpose Flamm to Infantry, close trait is now hard coded into Inf, does not work now.
Results from selected units for three Stalingrad scenerios [Stalingrad Assault, Stalingrad Docks, Stalingrad Ruins]
Name Type Kills/Losses
1st Pz Flamm 338/2
2nd Pz Flamm 282/5
Heinz Rondorf Flamm 358/2
Albert Kerscher Pz4G 94/6
Oleh Dir MG42 198/7
Helmut Wirnsberger Krad 119/5
I may keep Flamms through 45.
Reconmove anyone?
There comes a time on every project when it is time to shoot the engineer and ship the damn thing.
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TSPC37730
- Sergeant First Class - Elite Panzer IIIL
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Re: Stalingrad, the Docks, and the Ruins
While Flammpanzers are quite useful & fun up to & through the Stalingrad scenarios, I find that things change thereafter. The game becomes more "armor-centric" and thus there are fewer opportunities to use them. As the months roll on, the newer Soviet tanks get increasingly stronger & powerful. Meanwhile, your Flammpanzer will trundle along with its GD value of 8. It's simply too weak. No matter what heroes or how much experience the unit has collected, it is defensively merely a quick snack for advancing & overstrength tanks. There's probably a few offensively oriented scenarios along the way where you can deploy one. However, it will require much baby sitting and you'll have to ensure the neighboring area is thoroughly scouted out in order to avoid surprise attacks. The AI loves targeting them.dalfrede wrote: I may keep Flamms through 45.
IMO one of the best things you can do going forward is to upgrade your Flammpanzers. With their heavy prior use, they're likely to have a high number of kills and almost certainly a hero - or two. Good luck!
Re: Stalingrad, the Docks, and the Ruins
Hanjar: Maybe this is of use?
this from my thread GC42-45 EAST, Replays and analysis
http://www.slitherine.com/forum/viewtop ... 45&t=82744
Storming Stalingrad
". As per urban, the crucial tactic is; my tanks will only be going in the roads that grid the hexes, never the hexes themselves (unless they are WAY behind the lines and need to capture a town hex that has been cleared). At deployment there are two groups of enemy partisans behind the lines in rough terrain. I will focus on those first and then when they are destroyed release those units to support the main attack. There are some aux italian units which can be used as bait and to fill gaps in lines. The german infantry units will advance in lines backed up by artilliary. There are three planes in range of your first go that can be destroyed..."
Stalingrad docks:
Strategy:..." I think the key to this one is actually sinking all the transports coming across the river. If they get across and unload you tend to get overwhelmed by the number of units against you in the urban area. For this although you are given an aux ju88 you need to have your own heroed and experienced strat bomber that can take out transports in one shot. I actually deploy 2 and there is a case for deploying another even then there will sometimes be too many transports. It is important to make the SMG infantry and guard units your priority, make sure none of them get through. Your own infantry can take care of the conscripts but the SMG and guards are quite tough and need multiple arty strikes. You also need recon rudel for his great spotting. It is possible to get a lossless MV in 8 turns and do very little for the next 14 turns but as for a DV it is very costly as the last two H's are so heavily defended. Two of their fighters are in range of the first turn. You get given alot of aux stukas and 2 aux 109's these are useful for finishing off transports on the river when they are near the bank as there is alot of static AA at the bank and you dont want to expose your core units to this. You are also given some aux italian units which are usefull for bait, risks and plugging gaps in lines. Of course there is the usual urban nightmare - dont advance untill you are backed up by two arty per unit and dont put your tanks in the town hexes......
Comments: Well I am glad that is over
. As expected very difficult which makes it alot longer. The other thing about this scenario is it is such a big map with lots of units you cant do it in one go and have to do it in bits, very unsatisfying. It is also hard to keep track of the units across the river. Looking at the second column of casualties I destroyed 28 transports as well. Given they were mostly SMG infantry and guard units I dont think I could have gotten a DV if they had made it across. I took some losses; recon rudel got bopped, also lost 3 overstrength points on one of my Bf 110's. The MV was straightforward and I have posted it as well if anyone wants to try the DV from the MV at turn 7. "
this from my thread GC42-45 EAST, Replays and analysis
http://www.slitherine.com/forum/viewtop ... 45&t=82744
Storming Stalingrad
". As per urban, the crucial tactic is; my tanks will only be going in the roads that grid the hexes, never the hexes themselves (unless they are WAY behind the lines and need to capture a town hex that has been cleared). At deployment there are two groups of enemy partisans behind the lines in rough terrain. I will focus on those first and then when they are destroyed release those units to support the main attack. There are some aux italian units which can be used as bait and to fill gaps in lines. The german infantry units will advance in lines backed up by artilliary. There are three planes in range of your first go that can be destroyed..."
Stalingrad docks:
Strategy:..." I think the key to this one is actually sinking all the transports coming across the river. If they get across and unload you tend to get overwhelmed by the number of units against you in the urban area. For this although you are given an aux ju88 you need to have your own heroed and experienced strat bomber that can take out transports in one shot. I actually deploy 2 and there is a case for deploying another even then there will sometimes be too many transports. It is important to make the SMG infantry and guard units your priority, make sure none of them get through. Your own infantry can take care of the conscripts but the SMG and guards are quite tough and need multiple arty strikes. You also need recon rudel for his great spotting. It is possible to get a lossless MV in 8 turns and do very little for the next 14 turns but as for a DV it is very costly as the last two H's are so heavily defended. Two of their fighters are in range of the first turn. You get given alot of aux stukas and 2 aux 109's these are useful for finishing off transports on the river when they are near the bank as there is alot of static AA at the bank and you dont want to expose your core units to this. You are also given some aux italian units which are usefull for bait, risks and plugging gaps in lines. Of course there is the usual urban nightmare - dont advance untill you are backed up by two arty per unit and dont put your tanks in the town hexes......
Comments: Well I am glad that is over
. As expected very difficult which makes it alot longer. The other thing about this scenario is it is such a big map with lots of units you cant do it in one go and have to do it in bits, very unsatisfying. It is also hard to keep track of the units across the river. Looking at the second column of casualties I destroyed 28 transports as well. Given they were mostly SMG infantry and guard units I dont think I could have gotten a DV if they had made it across. I took some losses; recon rudel got bopped, also lost 3 overstrength points on one of my Bf 110's. The MV was straightforward and I have posted it as well if anyone wants to try the DV from the MV at turn 7. "
Re: Stalingrad, the Docks, and the Ruins
Great maps. I did the same in the ruins. Went north and took out the major positions. While also sending a relief force to the Italian airfields. I didn't want to risk having no air fields. This was way easier than I thought it'd be. Helped me recover prestige I lost at Stalingrad and storming it. Had to reinforce a lot of units in battle in order to keep advancing
Re: Stalingrad, the Docks, and the Ruins
I think the key to docks scenario is actually in: destroying all the smg and guard infantry coming across the river. For which you use a couple of experienced bombers i.e. experienced (and preferably heroed) enough to take out the smg and guard infantry with usually one shot. With any that are left with a few strength just use the given stukas to take them out. You only get one shot with the bombers before they go too near the shore AA, hence using the stukas to finish any off. You dont need to worry about conscripts but if those smg ang guards get across they will overwhelm and you will lose valuable units because of it. with thise taken care of it is manageable if done slowly and carefully backing up everything with arty.