Favourite units in each unit class

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heinzrondorf
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Favourite units in each unit class

Post by heinzrondorf » Mon Feb 18, 2019 2:39 am

What are everyone's favourite unit(s) in each unit class and why? :)

A short disclaimer before we start:
I am NOT claiming these are the "best" (if such a thing exist) units, it's simply the units I LIKE and ENJOY the most!

Infantry:

Grenadier - I used to prefer Pioniere but I now go with Grenadiers since I always seem to get much better results with them. Available from 1.1.1940 and is incredibly useful all the way to the end. Becomes even meaner if upgraded to Grenadier 43.

Honorable mentions to Gebirgsjäger who are very useful early in the war with their great mobility and no need for a transport.

Tanks:

Tiger II - Expensive, slow and always seem to run out of fuel but in defensive scenarios (which there are a lot of in GC44-45) it is a beast. It really packs a punch and I always breathe a sign of relief when it becomes available.

Honorable mentions to Panzer II Flamm which is an amazing Infantry killer in 1941-1942 and one of my must-have-units in the Stalingrad scenarios but becomes obsolete very quickly. Also Panzer IIIN which is a very nice, versatile tank which can even operate in rough terrain and cities.

Recon:

SdKfz 222 - I rarely get the same emotional attachment to recon units and consider them quite expendable but still, they are very useful. If I have to pick one though I guess it would be SdKfz 222 since it is what you start with in 1939 and it is nice to be able to bring it with you to Operation Barbarossa where it usually gets killed… :(

Honorable mentions to SdKfz 231 6Rad because that’s what I buy when SdKfz 222 gets killed :)

Anti-Tank:

Elefant - See Tiger II above.

Honorable mentions to StuG IIIF which becomes available at a time when the German armor is struggling.

Artillery:

StuG IIIB - What? A +1 range artillery unit? Well, I just love StuG IIIB and always buy them as soon as they become available. They are always in the thick of the action, protecting tanks and infantry in front of them and sometimes also going on the offensive. Becomes even more useful in an offensive capacity with a +1 range hero. Usually gets upgraded to StuH 42 and later Brummbär.

Honorable mentions to Sturmpanzer which is my early go-to artillery as well as Wurfrahmen 40 which is incredibly useful but high in maintenance both on and off the battlefield.

Anti-air:

SdKfz 7/2 - I know I “should” say 8.8cm FlaK 36 and I “know” it is the better unit but I always struggle with towed units. SdKfz 7/2 is very unspectacular and not super effective but since it is self-propelled I find it quite useful since it can move move with the battlegroups and protect everything around it.

Honorable mentions to 8.8cm FlaK 36. Awesome both as anti-aircraft and as a tank killer in GC40 but I don't really know how to use it properly.

Fighters:

Fw 190A - It comes at the perfect time when the Bf 109 starts struggling against the waves of enemy fighters. An awesome fighter which is also quite useful for strafing.

Honorable mentions to Bf 109E which rules the skies in GC39-40 and Me 262A which is a real, late war, wunderwaffe.

Tactical bombers:

Ju 87D - It is difficult to pick just one Stuka since I use and love them all. Ju 87B and Ju 87R are the early versions which play a huge role in GC39-40 while Ju 87G is an amazing tank killer but only available from Kursk and onwards. So if I have to pick one version it would have to be Ju 87D because of its longevity being the best Stuka available from the fall of 1941 up until Kursk in mid 1943.

Honorable mentions to all versions of Bf 110 (and Me 410A) which are great for recon, finishing of weakened fighters, bombers as well as doing a decent job against tanks, trucks and transports. A more versatile unit than Stukas but considering the amounts of kills the Stukas add up they edge this one.

Strategic bombers:

Ju 88A - I don’t use strategic bombers for more than anti-shipping so I don’t really have a favourite but Ju 88A is a great bomber for the prestige it costs.

Honorable mentions to He 177A which is obviously the superior bomber but since it does not become available until 2.4.1942 I don’t find it so useful since there are not many anti-shipping scenarios around then if you play the GC Eastern route.

That's my list. Would be great to hear other people's thoughts!

Elkarlo
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Re: Favourite units in each unit class

Post by Elkarlo » Mon Feb 18, 2019 10:03 am

I like the 21cm artillery. It's the only artillery that can suppress the Soviet heavy tanks in 44-45

PeteMitchell_2
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Re: Favourite units in each unit class

Post by PeteMitchell_2 » Mon Feb 18, 2019 10:06 am

Your list includes several reasonable thoughts (IMHO). Some people may agree more/some less on certain units...

However, as you already mentioned, the performance of many (favorite) units can heavily depend on the situation (e.g. offensive vs. defensive) and the terrain/weather. In addition, it may also significantly change in case you play with adjusted equipment files (e.g. compare Battlefield Europe mod by McGuba).

The one thing I really wanted to mention/suggest: you may want to try using strategic/level bombers to strip heavy armored units off its fuel and ammo. You can also neutralize city and airfield hexes so they can’t be used by the enemy anymore (e.g. to buy or repair units, etc.). Strategic/level bombers can also help eliminate AA (as they fly higher).

Ah and another thought might include the upgrade paths, i.e. some units can be more valuable (e.g. weak/early ATs in the long run) because they can be upgraded to something much better later on...

There are also various nation-specific differences here, e.g. if you look at switchable SU/US equipment...

proline
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Re: Favourite units in each unit class

Post by proline » Tue Feb 19, 2019 4:44 am

heinzrondorf wrote:
Mon Feb 18, 2019 2:39 am
Anti-air:

SdKfz 7/2 - I know I “should” say 8.8cm FlaK 36 and I “know” it is the better unit but I always struggle with towed units. SdKfz 7/2 is very unspectacular and not super effective but since it is self-propelled I find it quite useful since it can move move with the battlegroups and protect everything around it.
The SdKfz 7/1 is superior to the SdKfz 7/2, because while it has one point less of attack, it has a rate of fire of 12. That means if you over-strength to 15 you get a whopping 18 shots. A 5-star 15 strength SdKfz 7/1 can basically one-shot most fighters. You only miss the attack points when you are shooting at bombers which have more armor, but your fighters can handle that. One or two SdKfz 7/1 can make the skies safe for your air at no cost to you whatsoever. Oh, and the cap hit is next to nothing, even over-strengthed to the max.

heinzrondorf
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Re: Favourite units in each unit class

Post by heinzrondorf » Tue Feb 19, 2019 12:02 pm

proline wrote:
Tue Feb 19, 2019 4:44 am
heinzrondorf wrote:
Mon Feb 18, 2019 2:39 am
Anti-air:

SdKfz 7/2 - I know I “should” say 8.8cm FlaK 36 and I “know” it is the better unit but I always struggle with towed units. SdKfz 7/2 is very unspectacular and not super effective but since it is self-propelled I find it quite useful since it can move move with the battlegroups and protect everything around it.
The SdKfz 7/1 is superior to the SdKfz 7/2, because while it has one point less of attack, it has a rate of fire of 12. That means if you over-strength to 15 you get a whopping 18 shots. A 5-star 15 strength SdKfz 7/1 can basically one-shot most fighters. You only miss the attack points when you are shooting at bombers which have more armor, but your fighters can handle that. One or two SdKfz 7/1 can make the skies safe for your air at no cost to you whatsoever. Oh, and the cap hit is next to nothing, even over-strengthed to the max.
That's a very good point. I never considered rate of fire with AA, only with artillery.
Thanks for bringing it to my attention! I will go with SdKfz 7/1 from now :)
Last edited by heinzrondorf on Tue Feb 19, 2019 12:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.

heinzrondorf
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Re: Favourite units in each unit class

Post by heinzrondorf » Tue Feb 19, 2019 12:11 pm

PeteMitchell_2 wrote:
Mon Feb 18, 2019 10:06 am
The one thing I really wanted to mention/suggest: you may want to try using strategic/level bombers to strip heavy armored units off its fuel and ammo. You can also neutralize city and airfield hexes so they can’t be used by the enemy anymore (e.g. to buy or repair units, etc.). Strategic/level bombers can also help eliminate AA (as they fly higher).
Good points. I used to use strategic/level bombers also for scenarios where there is no shipping but I always found they did not justify the core slots but maybe it was because I never had the patience to build up their experience so they could be as efficient as they can be. It usually took me 2-3 turns of strategic bombing to make that heavy tank or AA lose their ammo and fuel and I felt it was not worth it compared to what I could achieve with ground units or tactical bombers.

Can an overstrength, experienced strategic/level bomber completely deplete a heavy tank or AA of its fuel and ammo in say 1 turn?
PeteMitchell_2 wrote:
Mon Feb 18, 2019 10:06 am
Ah and another thought might include the upgrade paths, i.e. some units can be more valuable (e.g. weak/early ATs in the long run) because they can be upgraded to something much better later on...
Upgrade paths are interesting. That's one of the things I really like about Ju 87 and StuG III B if I am not mistaken.

PeteMitchell_2
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Re: Favourite units in each unit class

Post by PeteMitchell_2 » Tue Feb 19, 2019 12:32 pm

heinzrondorf wrote:
Tue Feb 19, 2019 12:11 pm
Can an overstrength, experienced strategic/level bomber completely deplete a heavy tank or AA of its fuel and ammo in say 1 turn?
Fuel/ammo drainage are correlated to bomber efficiency but I never paid attention to the details, maybe compare here as well: http://www.slitherine.com/forum/viewtop ... 41#p702152

I think a minimum of 1 ammo remains all the time but still... on heavy SU tanks/ATs this can make a huge difference already...

goose_2
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Quick Info on the strat Bomber.

Post by goose_2 » Wed Feb 20, 2019 2:46 pm

This post deserves more depth from me, but busy with other things at the moment.

15 Strength Strat Bomber will drain all ammo but 1 of "ANY" Target.

This is the key. Reducing any unit to just 1 ammo effectively neutralizes that unit as it is easily reduced to out of ammo on either their next attack or your next assault.

The problem is the 15 strength Strategic Bomber is very expensive and very attractive for the enemy to attack, so that makes deploying them at the start of a scenario less effective, then the way I typically use them. Which is deploy them once I am assured that I have eliminated the enemy's First Wave of Fighter's and when my Soft Cap is back at 100%.

One thing that is not discussed that much on this forum is the strategy of not deploying all needed units.

To see the outstanding tactic in action I recommend watching my posts on my channel of the 2 of the last 4 battles of Grand Campaign West 45 to see how I utilize this tactic to great effect, even though I am playing blind. Imagine it's effectiveness once you develop knowledge of their various attack vectors and can deploy accordingly.

Yeah, Strat Bombers have their limits, but they are an extremely effective combat unit to use in force surrenders and ammo drainage.
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huckc
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Re: Quick Info on the strat Bomber.

Post by huckc » Thu Feb 21, 2019 12:42 am

goose_2 wrote:
Wed Feb 20, 2019 2:46 pm
15 Strength Strat Bomber will drain all ammo but 1 of "ANY" Target.
This is true and when attacking AA you'll fully deplete it since it shoots back after the ammo reduction.

auda
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Re: Favourite units in each unit class

Post by auda » Thu Feb 21, 2019 3:18 pm

SdKfz 222 is a favourite. It gets used plenty until the 234 variants become available. I also like the way Deducter incrased its movement and vision, but at a cost of ammo which can drain pretty fast.
Gebirgsjäger are awesome, specially with attack and/or initiative heroes. I used infantry up until the end of '42, where things get sketchy with the introduction of Soviet Guards. Grenadiers are needed by that time.
Stug B is great early on for support of advancing armour and it can even withstand some damage.
I like the 88s very much and try really hard to put them to good use. The switch fire is awesome, and it can rip apart early KVs with ease, which is specially useful since Germans have no tanks or tank destroyers to match until later on.
During my latest GC playthrough with Deducter's mod I re-discovered the strategic bomber. I use them as flying artillery, overstrength them only at city-intense scenarios, otherwise keep them replacing with regulars since they gain experience so fast anyway. The inevitable losses from attacking AA guns are easily replenished by regular replacements in-game.

heinzrondorf
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Re: Favourite units in each unit class

Post by heinzrondorf » Thu Feb 21, 2019 4:28 pm

auda wrote:
Thu Feb 21, 2019 3:18 pm
During my latest GC playthrough with Deducter's mod I re-discovered the strategic bomber. I use them as flying artillery, overstrength them only at city-intense scenarios, otherwise keep them replacing with regulars since they gain experience so fast anyway. The inevitable losses from attacking AA guns are easily replenished by regular replacements in-game.
I think that's one of the keys to using them efficiently and something I never really thought about. I usually never do replacements in-game and then only do elite replacements in the deployment to the next scenario. I have had that approach for ALL units regardless of type, something I now realise maybe is not so smart... :|

That's one of the reason why I found the strategic bombers not to be so useful since they would have the inevitable AA losses which made their AA attacking very expensive. However, by doing it the way you do. Just doing regular replacements in-game keeping in mind they gain experience so fast, then it becomes more interesting and less expensive.

PeteMitchell_2
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Re: Favourite units in each unit class

Post by PeteMitchell_2 » Thu Feb 21, 2019 5:14 pm

On "normal" difficulty settings, you may even want to consider doing free regular replacements for many units during the deployment phase, i.e. due to the experience cap along the GC...

ycloon
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Re: Favourite units in each unit class

Post by ycloon » Fri Feb 22, 2019 12:53 am

I really like the SdKfz 7/1 precisely because of the high RoF. However, its half-tracked movement of 5 means that the unit is not very mobile during winter scenarios. One fix is to downgrade it to the SdKfz 10/4, which has a half-tracked movement of 8, at 0 cost. Once you get pass those winter scenarios you can upgrade it back to the SdKfz 7/1 for 21pp and still retain any overstrength because both types belong to the same family.

As for infantry, the Wehrmacht inf is the best IMHO. It has a good movement rate, relatively high ammo, decent defenses, and cheaper than Grenadier or Pioniere. The Grenadier does hit much harder, has higher INI and AD, but I find the 2-move somewhat restrictive. During the late war years, you really want to end the turn with your infantry in close terrain if possible. The 3-move Wehr Inf could get into close terrain while the 2-move Grenadier may not.

As for AT, the 8.8 cm Pak 43/41 is worth looking into. It's definitely not as versatile as SP AT units, but when used correctly, the Pak 43 is as devastating as the Elefant at a fraction of the cost (Pak 43/41+SdKfz 7 cost 340pp vs. Elefant's 600pp). The Pak 43 works best when deployed in a fortification hex in defensive scenarios. You get a number of these scenarios in the later war years when Germany is on the defensive, e.g, Kiev43 and Jassy Kishinev. Check out Deducter's youtube videos for a demonstration.

captainjack
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Re: Favourite units in each unit class

Post by captainjack » Fri Feb 22, 2019 1:35 am

Infantry - probably British HW early war (like grenadiers but 6 ammo not 5). Late war Wehr 43 or SE grenadiers.
Tank - Early - Matilda. Later Churchill flametank. 140RoF, decent armour OK attack and very good CD.
Recon - Early LRDG or Sahariana for the versatility. Later the 8rad with 50mm gun or the 75mm.
Artillery - I like artillery and alwyas have lots. I should like the GMC155 but it has way too much ammo and is unbalanced because of this. Probably the 25 pounder for the switch when you have few unit lots (and especially with a range hero), or 21cm nebelwerfer, and 149 early/the later SPART if playing Italians are my favourties
AT - Elefant but the Stug IV is a good late war all-rounder because of the artillery switch.
AA - Combo of US twin 0.5" +37mm half track and 90mm for US, Sdkfz 7/1 (later the Ostwind) and an experienced 128mm for Germans Preferably with +1range SP and +1 move towed.
Fighter - P47D or FW190
Tac Bomber - Beaufighter for Allies, for Germans 110/410 as I only do babysitting for strat bombers! However, the HS129 can be quite good for sharing the love between hard and soft targets.
Strat bomber - Do217 (very powerful when available, and slightly more durable than He177), or Lancaster/B17 for allies.

My list of most used units would overlap this a fair bit, but quite a few of the favourites aren't necessarily the best choice so depend on having a suitable hero, or having enough unit slots and prestige to add some extras.

proline
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Re: Favourite units in each unit class

Post by proline » Fri Feb 22, 2019 3:33 am

ycloon wrote:
Fri Feb 22, 2019 12:53 am
As for AT, the 8.8 cm Pak 43/41 is worth looking into. It's definitely not as versatile as SP AT units, but when used correctly, the Pak 43 is as devastating as the Elefant at a fraction of the cost (Pak 43/41+SdKfz 7 cost 340pp vs. Elefant's 600pp).
Vs. tank destroyers the Pak 43 is actually more devastating than the Elefant because tank destroyers have terrible soft attacks. It doesn't matter what initiative roll they get or how lucky they are, they'll never even scratch the Pak 43. That's a big deal in the east because the soviets have tons of tanks destroyers and artillery that switches into them.

ycloon
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Re: Favourite units in each unit class

Post by ycloon » Sat Feb 23, 2019 12:57 pm

proline wrote:
Fri Feb 22, 2019 3:33 am
Vs. tank destroyers the Pak 43 is actually more devastating than the Elefant because tank destroyers have terrible soft attacks. It doesn't matter what initiative roll they get or how lucky they are, they'll never even scratch the Pak 43. That's a big deal in the east because the soviets have tons of tanks destroyers and artillery that switches into them.
Great point! I've been on the receiving end of this a few times, i.e., the Soviet 57mm AT almost always fares better in engagements with my StuG IIIGs, even when my StuGs are more experienced (AT experience-based attack bonus only applies to HA, not SA).

auda
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Re: Favourite units in each unit class

Post by auda » Sat Feb 23, 2019 7:25 pm

Might take the PaK 43 this time 'round. Never used it actually. Towed AT was always something I avoided, mainly because of speed, but also because of poor close defense values that make it very bad in cities and forests. Therefore not versatile enough for my game play.

How does the PaK 43 fare against artillery though? It appears that the only reliable way to use AT was in fortification hexes. Left out in the open, two shots from enemy artillery and it surrenders...

ycloon
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Re: Favourite units in each unit class

Post by ycloon » Sun Feb 24, 2019 1:26 am

The Pak 43's GD = 8, same as Wehr Inf/Wehr Inf 43/ Grenadier/ Grenadier 43/ Pioniere/ Pioniere 43. In other words, not all that great in open terrain. However, because the AI is not smart enough to quickly deploy arty to pound away at the Pak 43, the unit can still score some serious damage before the arty gets within range (Jassy Kishinev is one such scenario). The Pak 43 is a situational unit and has to be used carefully to harness its full potential. Thus, it's unlikely to be a top choice for favourite unit in the AT class. But, one can derive some satisfaction when the unit is used in the correct scenario. I'd put it down as the kind of unit that you might want to try on a second playthrough of the same scenario because at that point, you have a fairly good idea of the opposition and terrain. It's a unit that helps to inject a dose of replayability into the GC.

PeteMitchell_2
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Re: Favourite units in each unit class

Post by PeteMitchell_2 » Sun Feb 24, 2019 1:21 pm

ycloon wrote:
Sun Feb 24, 2019 1:26 am
The Pak 43 is a situational unit and has to be used carefully to harness its full potential.
Maybe best to use it in established defensive positions, e.g. on clear ground backed up with artillery (maybe even two) and flanks protected as well...

dalfrede
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Re: Favourite units in each unit class

Post by dalfrede » Mon Feb 25, 2019 3:53 am

US Rangers is the best Inf
Willy's Jeep is the best Recon, soft target, eats 88s for lunch. Only problem is the nopurchase trait.

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