Does slitherine plan on supporting PzC for Ipad?

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mgdpublic
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Does slitherine plan on supporting PzC for Ipad?

Post by mgdpublic »

I know slitherine has made the questionable decision to shift from iPad, but are they at least planning on keeping PzC updated? I want to buy the gold pack but not if it's gonna be defunct in the next update. Thanks!
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Re: Does slitherine plan on supporting PzC for Ipad?

Post by Tamas »

I am not sure what you mean?
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Re: Does slitherine plan on supporting PzC for Ipad?

Post by Rudankort »

If you are concerned that Panzer Corps may break after one of Apple's iOS updates, then yes, we will look into any such issues if they appear. Otherwise, please clarify your question. :)
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Re: Does slitherine plan on supporting PzC for Ipad?

Post by DonCzirr »

I don't think that Panzer Corps was on the 32 bit list of doomed Slitherine Apps like BA, BA2, P&S, CTGW etc - so I think it should be fine on IOS 11 ....
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Re: Does slitherine plan on supporting PzC for Ipad?

Post by mgdpublic »

Oh sorry I wasn't clear. I was referring to the fact that slitherine has let a lot of games on ipad go defunct. The majority of my games on ipad no longer work and require a developer update that I've since read isn't coming since slitherine is supposedly dropping their support for iOS games. I don't want to drop 60 bucks on the gold package if they're gonna drop support for panzer Corp as well. I thought they might make an exception for this game because of its popularity.
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Re: Does slitherine plan on supporting PzC for Ipad?

Post by zakblood »

DonCzirr wrote: Thu Aug 16, 2018 4:45 pm I don't think that Panzer Corps was on the 32 bit list of doomed Slitherine Apps like BA, BA2, P&S, CTGW etc - so I think it should be fine on IOS 11 ....
agreed but a developer or staff member will confirm
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Re: Does slitherine plan on supporting PzC for Ipad?

Post by DonCzirr »

mgdpublic wrote: Thu Aug 16, 2018 5:30 pm Oh sorry I wasn't clear. I was referring to the fact that slitherine has let a lot of games on ipad go defunct. The majority of my games on ipad no longer work and require a developer update that I've since read isn't coming since slitherine is supposedly dropping their support for iOS games. I don't want to drop 60 bucks on the gold package if they're gonna drop support for panzer Corp as well. I thought they might make an exception for this game because of its popularity.
Aside from the games I mentioned (and a few more that I can't remember), I don't think they're completely dropping out. Just don't expect rewrites of the STUB engine games or future releases like Commander the Great War.

Hopefully - easy win ports like March to Glory and Check Your 6 will still be published on IOS.

IIRC they just updated Drive on Moscow to 64 bit with a patch. That shows some ongoing commitment.

So - personally, I would think PC Gold would be a good investment.

As Zak said though - it would be good for staff or a developer to confirm.
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Re: Does slitherine plan on supporting PzC for Ipad?

Post by Rudankort »

I think I've already replied. The whole game becoming unplayable is too serious an issue to ignore. If this happens, we will fix it.

As for the 32 vs 64 bit issue, Panzer Corps was updated in December 2016, so it should have 64 bit support. If you are worried with compatibility with iOS 11, you can try and install the free Panzer Corps Lite version first.
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Re: Does slitherine plan on supporting PzC for Ipad?

Post by proline »

Worth noting is that iPad PzC does not support resolutions other than 1024x768 such as the iPad Pro 10.5", and 12", and all future iPad Pros. Rudankort will tell you it runs on these larger devices, but things are big and blurry and certainly not pleasing.
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Re: Does slitherine plan on supporting PzC for Ipad?

Post by Rudankort »

proline wrote: Mon Sep 10, 2018 6:42 am Worth noting is that iPad PzC does not support resolutions other than 1024x768 such as the iPad Pro 10.5", and 12", and all future iPad Pros. Rudankort will tell you it runs on these larger devices, but things are big and blurry and certainly not pleasing.
Well, to be completely objective ;) the situation is as follows:

- The map uses full available resolution, so you can see a lot of the map at once on a Pro, and it will look crisp and clear at the same time. Also, iPad version benefits from smooth zooming which does not exist in desktop version.

- The fonts also use full resolution, so all text and numbers are big and crisp. Readability is great on iPad screen, in fact better than on a PC, because PC version does not scale its UI.

- Yes, we never created HD version of all Panzer Corps art. It would be a huge job, given the number of units, tiles and UI assets. So, the UI is getting upscaled and slightly blurry, and the same is true for the map at max zoom in. It is not a new issue though, it always existed on retina iPads, and iPad Pro does not make it significantly worse to my eye. I do agree that it is a compromise and not all players are happy about it. To check weather it is acceptable or not, one can always try the free version and decide for himself.

The thing is, Panzer Corps is a 7 years old game by now. It does not work perfectly on modern hi-rez PC screens either. Sad but true. :)
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Re: Does slitherine plan on supporting PzC for Ipad?

Post by DeMeza »

I’ve played PzC on iPad for years. It runs really well now.

There have been issues in the past (like high power usage, so the battery was drained very fast), but the game has been updated together with iOS versions continuously. The only thing the iPad version really lacks is the ability to load custom-build content. That would be an awesome feature to have, but hinges on the restrictions imposed by Apple.
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Re: Does slitherine plan on supporting PzC for Ipad?

Post by proline »

Rudankort wrote: Mon Sep 10, 2018 7:28 am The map uses full available resolution, so you can see a lot of the map at once on a Pro, and it will look crisp and clear at the same time. Also, iPad version benefits from smooth zooming which does not exist in desktop version.
Unfortunately, the above is not true. The iPad Pro 10.5" is limited to displaying a battlefield 16 hexes wide, exact same as the iPad mini. I just checked today. You don't get to see anything more on the bigger screens. Instead of keeping the UI the same physical size and letting you see more Panzer Corps, the UI simply becomes huge. This is a problem Rudankort has been made aware of and once offered to "look in to" but it never got addressed. Similarly, on the 12" iPad you are also more than likely limited to 16 hexes wide, which is absurd on a screen that size.
Rudankort wrote: Mon Sep 10, 2018 7:28 amThe thing is, Panzer Corps is a 7 years old game by now. It does not work perfectly on modern hi-rez PC screens either. Sad but true. :)
Starcraft 1 is old. Still gets updates to increase the resolution. The iPhone 5S is five years old, Apple is still going to give it iOS 12. Supporting your products is a choice some people make and others don't. Those who choose not to say they don't have the sales to support such an effort, but reality is the reverse- people with good support get good sales.

Thanks to Marzipan, the iPad version could run on the Mac starting next year and replace the flawed abandonware Mac port. But again, that would be a choice and it would require updating the iPad app.
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Re: Does slitherine plan on supporting PzC for Ipad?

Post by Rudankort »

proline wrote: Mon Sep 10, 2018 11:51 pm Unfortunately, the above is not true. The iPad Pro 10.5" is limited to displaying a battlefield 16 hexes wide, exact same as the iPad mini. I just checked today. You don't get to see anything more on the bigger screens.
OK. I double checked and can confirm that you see 16 hexes on a Pro 12". Sorry for misinformation in my previous post. ;)
proline wrote: Mon Sep 10, 2018 11:51 pm Instead of keeping the UI the same physical size and letting you see more Panzer Corps, the UI simply becomes huge. This is a problem Rudankort has been made aware of and once offered to "look in to" but it never got addressed.
Panzer Corps UI was not designed for tablets, and on a classic iPad and especially on a Mini many controls are too small for finger. So, I'm not convinced it's a bad thing. The UI on a Pro becomes more usable. And if you want to see "more Panzer Corps", you can always collapse the UI by tapping the eagle at the top of UI panel.

Just out of curiosity, why are you addressing me in third person when replying to my comment?
proline wrote: Mon Sep 10, 2018 11:51 pm Similarly, on the 12" iPad you are also more than likely limited to 16 hexes wide, which is absurd on a screen that size.
Again, I don't see anything "absurd" about it. 16 hexes is what people see on a full HD screen of a PC, no matter how large it is. And you still benefit from bigger screen size on a Pro, because once again it is easier to see and tap hexes. Personally, I could comfortably play at full zoom out level on a Pro, which is not necessarily true for smaller iPads. And unlike the UI panel, blurriness in the map is not obvious at all, which is exactly why I made the mistake of claiming it used full screen resolution.

However, I do agree with you that on an iPad Pro it would be possible to provide a wider range of zoom levels without losing map and unit detail. Not a big deal on 10.5" (17 hexes instead of 16), but clearly a more significant gain on 12".
proline wrote: Mon Sep 10, 2018 11:51 pm Starcraft 1 is old. Still gets updates to increase the resolution.
Well, who knows? Perhaps 20 years after original release we will remaster Panzer Corps too. :)
proline wrote: Mon Sep 10, 2018 11:51 pm Thanks to Marzipan, the iPad version could run on the Mac starting next year and replace the flawed abandonware Mac port. But again, that would be a choice and it would require updating the iPad app.
Since Mac version is directly based on iPad version anyway, I'm curious what improvements you expect to get this way? The most fundamental issues with Mac version are lack of the editor and no support of user mods. Alas, Marzipan will not solve any of this.
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Re: Does slitherine plan on supporting PzC for Ipad?

Post by proline »

Rudankort wrote: Tue Sep 11, 2018 2:08 am OK. I double checked and can confirm that you see 16 hexes on a Pro 12". Sorry for misinformation in my previous post. ;)
Apology accepted. ;)
Rudankort wrote: Tue Sep 11, 2018 2:08 am Just out of curiosity, why are you addressing me in third person when replying to my comment?
I wasn't talking to you, I was talking to the OP who was asking about the state of PzC for iPad.
proline wrote: Mon Sep 10, 2018 11:51 pm Similarly, on the 12" iPad you are also more than likely limited to 16 hexes wide, which is absurd on a screen that size.
Rudankort wrote: Tue Sep 11, 2018 2:08 am16 hexes is what people see on a full HD screen of a PC, no matter how large it is. And you still benefit from bigger screen size on a Pro, because once again it is easier to see and tap hexes.
This is false. On a 15" MacBook Pro, even without hiding the UI the battlefield is 22 hexes wide. That's well more than double the number of hexes you get to see on a 12" iPad.
Rudankort wrote: Tue Sep 11, 2018 2:08 amHowever, I do agree with you that on an iPad Pro it would be possible to provide a wider range of zoom levels without losing map and unit detail. Not a big deal on 10.5" (17 hexes instead of 16), but clearly a more significant gain on 12".
You've said that before. Are you going to fix it? This may well be as simple as one line of code to change how far out you can zoom on the iPad Pro. Also, "17 hexes instead of 16" is 12% more screen area, probably 20%+ more area if you kept the UI the same physical size on the 10.5" as it is on the 9.8" and used all the extra space for battlefield, so it is a big deal.
proline wrote: Mon Sep 10, 2018 11:51 pmSince Mac version is directly based on iPad version anyway, I'm curious what improvements you expect to get this way? The most fundamental issues with Mac version are lack of the editor and no support of user mods. Alas, Marzipan will not solve any of this.
The problems with the Mac version have very little to do with the editor and mods. It would have to be playable for things like that to matter. Although this has been explained many times, the Mac version's real problems are:

1) Extremely high unnecessary CPU usage on portables that makes them run extremely hot and drains the battery in around an hour on even the best MacBooks. Yet somehow the game runs for like six hours on an ancient iPad 4, so obviously this doesn't have to be that way but nobody will fix it.

2) The entire UI is badly distorted such that everything (buttons, artwork in the purchase screen) is horizontally stretched to comical proportions. Yet strangely the UI is just fine in the promotional screenshots. They must have used the PC version to make the Mac App Store screen shots.

3) The briefing text is all bugged up. Often unreadable with text appearing overtop of text, flags like <center> showing up in the middle of text, etc.

4) The rename unit feature is bugged. You can rename 1 unit. To rename another unit you have to quit the game and restart it.

If Marzipan allowed you to magically just compile the iPad version to run on the Mac, 2, 3, & 4 would be instantly fixed. 1 might or might not be fixed. So actually Marizipan would fix most of the crappy programming that went into the Mac version. However, if the iPad version can't get more than 16 hexes on screen at a time that would cripple the Mac's one and only advantage- being able to show more of the battlefield.

It is really important for a strategy game to be able to use extra screen space to show as much battlefield as possible. When I read Dev diary 3, I thought you understood that when you spoke about dual monitors and so on. But then in this thread you seem kind of indifferent.
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Re: Does slitherine plan on supporting PzC for Ipad?

Post by zakblood »

just a note to remind everyone, replies have to be kept civil, or the post / thread will be locked, thanks

all information can be found on the same subject / topic's already in these 2 threads,

viewtopic.php?f=10&t=76866

viewtopic.php?f=10&t=78295
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Re: Does slitherine plan on supporting PzC for Ipad?

Post by Rudankort »

proline wrote: Tue Sep 11, 2018 7:09 am Are you going to fix it?
I don't want to give any promises which I'm not sure I can keep. Right now my top priority is to bring Panzer Corps 2 to release.

As for the Mac version, we all depend on the willingness of its makers to fix existing issues. Perhaps Marzipan could be an alternative solution to fixing it, once it becomes available.
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Re: Does slitherine plan on supporting PzC for Ipad?

Post by proline »

zakblood wrote: Tue Sep 11, 2018 7:32 am just a note to remind everyone, replies have to be kept civil, or the post / thread will be locked, thanks
It certainly isn't my intention to be uncivil. Rudankort has done a lot of amazing work reinvigorating this franchise. However, it isn't acceptable to have a developer telling prospective customers information that isn't true. The iPad Pro screen resolutions are not supported (the largest iPads are limited to the same view of the battlefield as the iPad Mini), and this is not a limitation shared by the desktop version which shows more battlefield the bigger your screen.

Part of why this kind of discussion becomes a recurring theme, as the links you've provided show, is because while Slitherine's defense- that the game is old so they shouldn't be expected to support it- doesn't hold water when they are literally taking customer's money right now. Today. In 2018. For a game that only came out last year, in the case of the Mac. They are leaving it entirely up to the customer to find out that the game is abandonware on their own. And there's no easy way to do that. Some old games are well supported (Nanosaur came out in 1998 and still gets fixes) and others aren't. If Slitherine pulled PzC from the iOS and Mac App stores the "old game" defense might work. Or if the App Store text clearly stated that it is abandonware.
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Re: Does slitherine plan on supporting PzC for Ipad?

Post by gacardman »

For the past two years I’ve gamed exclusively on my iPad Pro. I love the portability. Being able to play in an airplane, a hotel or as a couple of weeks ago while waiting for new tires to be installed is invaluable to me.

I’m in my mid fifties now and sit in front of a computer all day at work. The iPad and a recliner are a welcome relief in the evenings and provide a little downtime. I acknowledge it may not be for everyone and some things are lost such as mods, larger screens, and the scenario editor. I personally, however, have had zero issues with playing on the iPad Pro and certainly hope Slitherine continues to support this platform for future releases.

I actually bought the iPad specifically to play Panzer Corps but now own several other games such as RTW, Civ VI and a slew of lesser games. I have never regretted the purchase.

It works for me and I fervently hope that one day soon I’ll be able to play Close Combat on it. One of my all time favorites.
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Re: Does slitherine plan on supporting PzC for Ipad?

Post by proline »

Rudankort wrote: Tue Sep 11, 2018 10:13 pm
proline wrote: Tue Sep 11, 2018 7:09 am Are you going to fix it?
I don't want to give any promises which I'm not sure I can keep. Right now my top priority is to bring Panzer Corps 2 to release.

As for the Mac version, we all depend on the willingness of its makers to fix existing issues. Perhaps Marzipan could be an alternative solution to fixing it, once it becomes available.
4 years have passed. The Mac version made by the foreign porting house is now an ancient memory, though thanks to Apple Silicon the iPad version works well on the Mac. However, it lacks the desktop polish such as keyboard shortcuts. Would you be willing to spend one day to fix that?
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