Status Check for GC

[goose_2]

"Pleasure boating on the Meuse is forbidden!"

One of my favorite quotes from Hustlin' Heinz. Decisive at Sedan. Left 250 on the table in un-taken hexes.

I am still getting the hang of the GC. Not losing any units, but getting smacked around a tad. Had to get a few replacements during battle again, all regular. The Ai throws waves of aircraft, which I like. Just need to be expecting it. The enemy planes get vaporized, but they get their licks in first.

Probably going the Brit route next. Not feeling like facing Char Bs(if they are present).

Have 38 +3 units. Cannot think of a thing that I need now. Have the 7/4 and a pair of jagars and an 88. Five fighters and a pair each of stukas, 110s and He111s. Six tanks, seven arty(3x sturm), pairs of every flavor of troops except an extra pioneer(the uber +3 +3).

What is next? Bridgers? I have no doubt I will need more units, but want to get them at appropriate times.

Just to give you an idea of what I ended 1940 with on my Manstein playthrough:

Here is the Manstein Army Imported into 1941 59 Core units 21293 prestige

This is 4 additional core units that I did not have in my Field Marshall playthrough.

At least with this playthrough I now have all needed SE Pz’s. I think I would cry if I was awarded like I have been in Guderian and I know I would not be getting Decisive Victory’s like I have been.
Overall I am pleased with where I am at by this stage of the game, I will need to start buying more elite replacements, but I am hoping to finish 1941 with most units at or near 3 stars experience and at least 1 if not 2 heroes.
What I do when I upgrade units to a better unit that is in its class I over strengthen them as it is the cheapest it will ever be.


9 Total Infantry
This is 4 less than in Field Marshall run, but I do not have any Fallschimjaeger as they are impossible for me to keep alive, so instead I think I will continue training a few more Gebirsjaeger and switching them to a better inf at some time, because as of right now these units are doing very well.
1 Regular Inf with 2 Stars and +3 Defense (I will update him to a Grenadier with Half-track, it is expensive but will help tremendously in Vyazma, I hope)
5 Gebirsjaeger: 3 Stars Oleh Dir (I will be holding him back, I think, until Vyazma; +3 Def 2 Stars; +2 Att 2 Stars; +1 Initiative 1 Star; and +1 Spotting with 2 stars.
2 Pioniere’s: 1 Pioniere +1 Att 2 Stars and 1 with 1 star and no heroes.
1 Grenadier with truck 2 Stars with +1 Spotting



12 tanks
This is 3 more than my Field Marshall playthrough
3 captured French tanks 1 Somua with 2 stars and 2 Char B-1’s 1 with 2 Stars the other with 1 star.
2 Pz2C’s1 with 1 star the other with 2 Stars. (These have just been sitting waiting to turn into Flamms )
+2 Att Pz3F 2 Stars
2 Pz 4D’s 1 +1 Def and 1 Star the other is Albert Kerscher with 2 Stars
Matilda 2 0 Stars (I am selling this as no way using this to try and get a hero as they just do not have enough movement.)
3 SE Pz3F’s 1st 2 stars with +2 Att; 2nd with 2 Stars; and 3rd with 1 Star



1 2 star recon with a +1 Spotting hero
(This might be my only one and I may upgrade it to a more survivable and maneuverable unit to help me do what I did in Reims, as that is a great trick)

3 AT units all without a hero and 2 Stars
2 3.7cm Pak these are going to be waiting a long long time before they become Elephant’s.
1 Panzerjaeger 2 Stars (I think I will work on training up 2 more with the intention to upgrade to Elephants)



12 artys
This is the same as my Field Marshall playthrough
All with 3 Stars except one of them
9 10.5cm artys +1 Movement, +2 Att, +3 Att, (These will all be upgraded to 17cm artys when available) and +1 Def. (Maybe change up the +1 Defense to a StuG3?)
3 Sturmpanzers including 1 with +2 Att and another with +1 Movement
(Going to buy, or upgrade, at least 2 StuG’s and 2 Nebelwerfer’s, and 2 Wurfrahmen’s when they become available.)



3 AA units
1 with 1 Stars 2 with 3 Stars 1 with +3 Attack and the other with +1 Movement
(These have been the true beasts in battle, they just dominate on every level, best unit in the game so far, I will be focusing on building up just 3 of them, I don’t think I will by any mobil AA’s but I can be persuaded. )



7 Fighters
1 more fighter than my Field Marshall Playthrough
3 with 3 stars no heroes 1 with 2 Stars and no heroes
Heinrich Bar with 3 Stars
+1 Initiative with 2 Stars
+2 Def with 2 Stars



9 tac bombers 6 Junkers 3 Fighter Bombers
5 Junkers
Recon Rudel with 1 Star (Waiting for Minsk)
1 Star with +1 Def
3 Stars with +2 Def
3 Stars with no hero
3 Stars +2 Att/+2 Def (Never had a 2nd hero awarded in 1940)
My 3 Fighter Bombers are the absolute best
All with 3 Stars 1 Helmut Lent, 1 with +3 Att, 1 with +3 Def



4 Strat Bombers 3 with 3 Stars and 1 with 2 Stars

Not sure what you want to do with this or if this gives you ideas

[AnalogGamer]

Thanks for that insight Goose. I was getting ready to rest on my laurels and start really pushing experience. That is a large core force there me compadre. 59 units. 12 troops and arty? Yikes!


I suppose that my next questions are...

When does one stop worrying about having "extra" units? I have 38+3 and can only deploy 23 at the present time.

Am I "banking" units now to replace the inevitable upcoming losses on the late Eastern Front with experienced units? Will it really be that much of a hell-scape for an old PzG/vanilla PzC player? I am not in this to lose or play battles in retreat. If there is a way to win, I will be taking that campaign path.

Just how big do these battles get?!? I am used to two columns with 3 arty each or three columns with 2-3 each. It looks like I may have to go from standard divisional make-up to a more kampfgruppe style of play.

My usual style is to emulate a panzer division, as it would be in FM Manstein's and Herr Guederian's views. I use two, until I can use three.
Each tank/troop/AT is a regiment, each supporting arm is a Btn.

2x tanks, 2x troops(w/H/T), 3x partial S/P-H/T arty, 1x recon, 1x S/P A/T, 1x mobile AAA. Each of these is assigned a path through the VLs. A lot of teeth, but not much tail. Nothing left for secondary objectives or out-of-the-way areas. The recons peel off when and where they can to help scoop up secondaries.

Now that I am looking at that in the light of the GC... sigh. Soft Cap Hell. The Hanomags and S/P arty will be hurty won't they? Putting troops in trucks goes against everything I have ever done. hehehe If they are walking, they are "Category B" troops, and not on my map. The mountain troops are the exception of course, but are only used where there are mountains. Fallschirm as well for obvious reasons. I do currently have my two Wehr in trucks, but was planning on upgrading them now. Everyone else has proper transport.

Playing at General this first time out, so I am willing to accept the hit to keep my Hanomags.


Well over 12k prestige at present. If that isn't a good enough start, then I am in trouble.

EDIT - oops my bad. 15,500 prestige at end of Sedan. Brit path, pre-replacement and pre-purchase of new units.


edit Again - Captured S35? Was wondering why I had 38 units. What should be its fate?

[captainjack]

Half tracks improve mobility quite well (until you get snow) but since they contribute to the cost for overstrength and reinforcements they are quite expensive.

A few years ago I tried avoiding transport for infantry - it's surprising effective and while not necessarily a good overall strategy it teaches you a lot about where and when you really need transport (this was shortly after playing the earlier no-transport versions of BNC's WW1 mod, which included 1-speed artillery and a lot of forward planning).

Currently I often use one motorised division with trucks and one mechanised with halftracks as a lower cost compromise. Later (especially once 43 infantry are available) If you get a few move heroes, a divison of 4-move infantry or 3 move pios and grenadiers on foot can be quite effective. Walking is cheap, environmentally friendly and keeps your troops fit and busy, so you can play with a clear conscience too!

[AnalogGamer]

As a Wurfry-with-a-move-hero aficionado, I cannot imagine no-transport arty. LOL Beyond challenge into masochism. Kudos to you sir!

I will keep the idea of putting move hero troops back on their feet though. Thanks.

Coming into Arras with another decisive, and 16,200 prestige after replacements.

Time for a Bridging unit. I always have one, once I have the deployment space. I am seriously considering putting the +3/+3 uber-unit into Bridge status. Grab another fresh pioneer, and have a truly flexible, experienced bridging unit. What a refreshing change of pace that would be. A Bridging unit that does not live in constant fear. Thinking out of the box can get a column into the enemy rear, and I look hard for a crossing point.

I keep getting one of my jagars smacked down from anywhere between a 3 to a 1. They are popular fellows. Come on STuGs! My 8Rads are doing better.

Getting some nice attack heroes, along with an initiative or two. My Pioneers seem to favor defense as 1st hero, and I am fine with that. Investment for the future. If the numbers look bad enough to the AI, it won't even attack.

[captainjack]

Generally bridgies aren't worth developing as their combat stats are poor and they are just as useful green as experienced.
Having said that, if you aren't too short of prestige, Oleh Dir makes a good bridgie for assulting from a river hex, and the extra move can help him get into position, so when you need a real bridge engineer, he's a good conversion even if it's likely you'll be converting him back fairly soon.

Incidentally there's a few good move hero infantry units awarded in 42 and 43, so allowing for a few in-game move heroes you shoudl be able to create an on-foot 4-speed 43 infantry brigade with a mix of grenadiers (or pios) and infantry (after 43, gebirgsjagers aren't so good). Matched with some SPGs they can be very good in snow (no fuel to run out) and can pass through some terrain that isn't accessible in transports. It's not always a great choice, but worth considering to keep costs down, whether because you're playing with reduced prestige or using soft cap.

[AnalogGamer]

Thanks for the input.

I have always had issues with Bridgies in combat for the reasons you have stated. They are squishy and hard to ramp up. Having a prestige pool like this to work with is a novel experience. A unit usually upgrades or stays the same. Never considered switching unit types for more experienced.

My arty is getting attack heroes, my tac bombers get initiative, and my pioneers get defense so far. Been rather smooth in distribution.

[TSPC37730]

Regarding the bridge engineers, I usually buy one at the start of the campaign and employ them immediately as regular infantry. Their stats will never be considered good, but, in '39 they're the best they're going to be in a relative sense. You should be able to work them up to a first hero by mid '40. There's a few creative bridging opportunities for them in the early scenarios as well.

I also like to get them the best transport available. That way, they can get where you need them as soon as possible. They can also be used as trap bait - both for air and ground units. Just some thoughts. I'd also add that I don't always deploy them - it all depends on the scenario.

[AnalogGamer]

More advice requested...

Callas was callous to my boys. Decisive, with only 2 secondaries left on the table and a few turns left to go... but it cost me. I had to bring some armored 3s back to battery on the field to counter the last wave. Have not lost anyone since that single early jagar a few battles ago, but keep getting bloody noses.

Now 16,300 prestige before pre-battle replace and purchase.

As I head into Calais, I am instituting a new rule for my boys... The "Two Star Rule". Replacements may not bring a unit below two stars. I have been frickin' Ebenezer Scrooge since the first battle. Using regular replacements almost everywhere. But, when I saw a 2-star 3-strength jagar and PzIII on the field that were needed right THEN, I just couldn't do it. I ate a chunk and kept the stars and whupped 'em.

How do you experienced hands handle this? I see no need to pile on stars beyond or close to the max allowed for the campaign section. I am under a 3-star limit if I am correct, so am looking for kills and heroes for now.

Do I keep a high-star unit on until it earns a hero, or give a rookie a chance?

Once a unit has stars and a good hero, should it be parked, and a new one purchased?

Thanks for all the great input and discussions!

[AnalogGamer]

Hero Advice Column.

Here is the pre-Calais list of units with heroes. Some may be "meh", but none are dis-bandable offenses in my opinion.

1x Wehr with +1 init
1x Pioneer +3 +3 (uber)
2x Pioneer with +1 Defense(never happened before, but they dig in like ticks now)
1x SE Gren +1 Defense
1x PzIIIF +1 Defense
1x PzIVD +2 Atk/Def/Spot (uber)
1x 105mm +1 Atk
1x 109e +2 atk/init, +1 def (uber)
1x Stuka +1 init
1x Rudel
1x Me110 _1 atk +6 init (uber)
1x Me110 +1 init


What say ye? It is only Calais... or just after by the time replies get to me.

Edit - One of those Pioneers is destined for Bridging duty. No rivers worth crossing yet. Another may be Fallschirm-bound.

[AnalogGamer]

Going into Dunkirk with almost the same prestige as Calais, after replacements during and after battle. One of my Sturmpanzers got a +1 range hero and a Me109 got a +3 Atk. Another got a +2 Defense. A pair of tanks got some Defense heroes.

[TSPC37730]

More advice requested...

As I head into Calais, I am instituting a new rule for my boys... The "Two Star Rule". Replacements may not bring a unit below two stars. I have been frickin' Ebenezer Scrooge since the first battle. Using regular replacements almost everywhere. But, when I saw a 2-star 3-strength jagar and PzIII on the field that were needed right THEN, I just couldn't do it. I ate a chunk and kept the stars and whupped 'em.

How do you experienced hands handle this? I see no need to pile on stars beyond or close to the max allowed for the campaign section. I am under a 3-star limit if I am correct, so am looking for kills and heroes for now.

Do I keep a high-star unit on until it earns a hero, or give a rookie a chance?

Once a unit has stars and a good hero, should it be parked, and a new one purchased?

I think mid-40 is the point when you should start considering the choice between using green & elite replacements. Until that point, due to the cap, you can make up a lot of lost ground from using green replacements. After that, it gets harder to catch up a 1 star-ish unit.

One tactic to consider is if your unit is badly crippled is to move it to a remote corner of the map and essentially withdraw it from the battle. You can then use elite replacements between scenarios when it will cost less.

Another trick to consider is to add replacements while still "in contact" with an enemy unit. While your unit won't be back at full strength, you won't be paying as much either. Hopefully, the replacements you do get will be enough to get you through whatever mess you're in. You can fully top off later in between scenarios. Alternatively, you can also add some green replacements while still in contact. Your unit star level will still be watered down, but, the effect will be somewhat limited. Obviously, this tactic should be used carefully - the replacements will come in suppressed and the overall situation on the ground may make it a bad idea.

Regarding the heroes, I generally would lean towards getting that first hero before bringing in any rookies. That way, you can see what you will get. I'm not entirely sold on parking units with heroes either. The whole point of getting heroes is to have an additional advantage to leverage. Further, any unit which is on the sidelines is guaranteed not to get a hero. This applies to your second or third hero as well. Ultimately, the only way to maximize your chances of getting those extra heroes is to keep the unit in action - even if it is maxed out in star level terms. Lastly, units which end up sitting on your bench for most scenarios essentially are a pool of trapped prestige which you can't otherwise use.

[AnalogGamer]

Thanks for the "in contact" replacement tip. I though it charged full price but only gave some.

I was under the impression that I had an experience and hero limit as I progress through the Grand Campaign. I think that presently my units max out at 325 experience. I thought I could only have up to one(1) hero per unit up to a certain date.

Am seriously considering a leavening of rookies for the last few battles of the '40 campaign. Once a unit that is used a lot(ART) is at 325 experience, I am throwing experience away. Heroes can tend to come in a wave, but I need a force with stars while it is cheap and easy to do so. My SturmPanzer with a range hero and almost 3 stars is nice and all, but that is not the point right now. I have a long hard road ahead(looked at the full campaign tree - no win all lose). If I brought that puppy out this battle, I would be throwing experience away after the first volley.

39 core +3 SE going into Dunkirk. Only one captured unit so far, an S 35 tank. A lot of units have a hero and over 2 stars. Time to spread the love around some after this battle gets heroes in my remaining high-kill units.

Will need more armor, and almost every tank has a hero now, so the rookie panzer division will take the field next battle. Moar arty. Always moar arty. Need my third Fallschirm as well. If one of my squishy Jagars would earn a hero, I would get another. It seems that a Jagar's primary method of gaining experience is almost but not quite dying. LOL

I lived and breathed Ju88s all through my years of vanilla campaigning. But, I think that I have read here that 'tis better to go the He111 route for ease of upgrade. Being able to delete ships was nice. My pair of He111s has served me well and have a pair of stars each, but no heroes yet. Cannot think that more than two Strat bombers would be needed.

EDIT - This forum is like rubbing a magic lamp. Turn 2 of Dunkirk... both Jagars get +1 Def and do without getting smacked silly.

[AnalogGamer]

Came out of Dunkirk with a decisive, and a passel of heroes, and a captured Matilda II. Just over 17,000 prestige before replacements and purchase.

About to spend some prestige. Time for the Rookie divisions to be blooded.


EDIT - Out of 40/+3 units, 23 have heroes now. While not all are epic, they are all applicable to their unit type. +3 Def Jagar and +3 Atk Me109 are a couple of my faves. A lot of Def heroes on my Panzers, but that is OK for the future as long as the next one is nice.

[AnalogGamer]

Another lesson learned. Was wasting effort attempting to capture units by surrounding them and making them surrender. The darn things are hard-coded into LOCATIONS of all nonsense. If a unit occupies a certain hex, I get a captured unit. I have the list now. Won't be missing out on any more, or wasting time trying to capture units that I want.

[TSPC37730]

Another lesson learned. Was wasting effort attempting to capture units by surrounding them and making them surrender. The darn things are hard-coded into LOCATIONS of all nonsense. If a unit occupies a certain hex, I get a captured unit. I have the list now. Won't be missing out on any more, or wasting time trying to capture units that I want.

It's not at all a wasted effort IMO. You will gain prestige by forcing enemy units to surrender. The more valuable the unit, the more prestige you'll get. So, it's usually better to force tanks to surrender than ordinary foot soldiers. If you think you have a good chance of forcing a unit to surrender, you can see how much you earned by checking your prestige counter before & after combat.

[goose_2]

Another lesson learned. Was wasting effort attempting to capture units by surrounding them and making them surrender. The darn things are hard-coded into LOCATIONS of all nonsense. If a unit occupies a certain hex, I get a captured unit. I have the list now. Won't be missing out on any more, or wasting time trying to capture units that I want.

It's not at all a wasted effort IMO. You will gain prestige by forcing enemy units to surrender. The more valuable the unit, the more prestige you'll get. So, it's usually better to force tanks to surrender than ordinary foot soldiers. If you think you have a good chance of forcing a unit to surrender, you can see how much you earned by checking your prestige counter before & after combat.

I do this all of the time and is why I have over 120k in 1944 on Manstein playthrough

[goose_2]

Hero Advice Column.

Here is the pre-Calais list of units with heroes. Some may be "meh", but none are dis-bandable offenses in my opinion.

1x Wehr with +1 init
1x Pioneer +3 +3 (uber)
2x Pioneer with +1 Defense(never happened before, but they dig in like ticks now)
1x SE Gren +1 Defense
1x PzIIIF +1 Defense
1x PzIVD +2 Atk/Def/Spot (uber)
1x 105mm +1 Atk
1x 109e +2 atk/init, +1 def (uber)
1x Stuka +1 init
1x Rudel
1x Me110 _1 atk +6 init (uber)
1x Me110 +1 init


What say ye? It is only Calais... or just after by the time replies get to me.

Edit - One of those Pioneers is destined for Bridging duty. No rivers worth crossing yet. Another may be Fallschirm-bound.

+1 Def lousy 1st heroes but not sure if you want to start on all of those units again...so...maybe.
+1 Init Tac Bomber is a no save for sure...disband and buy new Tac Bomber...You want + Def or + Attack Tac Bombers

Maybe also the +1 Init Me-110 you need Bombers to be good with Defense or attack, mainly attack.

[AnalogGamer]

Thanks for the input!

The French were causing a lot of surrenders by crowding their own units. It got easy for a while, until they ran out of units to send into the mosh pit.

While I always prefer attack or move heroes on my panzers, but the defense ones are well within my envelope. They came in a wave during two battles after my tanks were well experienced, and it would have been difficult to ramp up more as things progress. Once I realized there was no way to invade England or the USA, and that it was always going to lead downhill, I embraced defense heroes.

The Stuka with the init is gone. Fresh pair of them for Dijon.

I like my fighter/bombers to have init. Atk and Def are better, but I have faith.

I am getting a leavening of +3 atk and +2 def as well. The PzJagar with the +3 def is a nice rock now

Init for Stukas or Artillery is cause for disband. Move for a plane as 1st hero as well. I am easy-going in many other respects. The balance of different units helps when I make up my kampfgruppen.

When is a good time to start over strength? I am already using 11s on my arty. Me110s, a few Me109s, and a couple Panzers go in at 11 as well.

Over 17,000 prestige. It goes down as I buy and replace, then goes up again, but the curve is leveling out a bit.

[AnalogGamer]

On to the Maginot Line! All decisive victories so far, though some have been tight and costly on my virgin run through the GC. I would be raping, pillaging and plundering if it was not for farming units and ramping up rookies. Leaving a Sturmpanzer with a range hero behind every battle is hard to do, but others deserve their shot at hero generation.

18,000 prestige, 50 units. 47 core(four captured), three SE. 105mm, Samua S35, Matilda II, and a Char B.

My hero list is not what the more experienced players would prefer, but there are no real losers either(other than an arty that earned a bad one at Dijon). No spotting heroes on artillery, etc. I have no real issue with either defense or Initiative heroes on the units that have earned them to-date. I identify with my boys a but too much to disband over a meh hero. Certainly NOT going to replay entire battles for a better hero wave. Some days you eat the bear... some days the bear eats you. I am playing this first run-through at General, and am not all that concerned.

Current Order Of Battle is as follows... All but the newest captured/purchased units have at least 2 stars. HT = Halftrack T = Truck All heroes are shown.

Infantry - 11 units

2x Wehr w/HT - both w/+1 Init
3x Fallschirm - no heroes 2+ stars (dropped on the Char B city at Dijon and went on a rear-area rampage with my new little friend)
2x Gebir - one w/+1 Def
1x Pioneer w/HT - +3 Init +3 Move (uber)
1x Pioneer w/HT - +1 Def
1x Bridge w/HT - +1 Def
1x SE Gren w/HT - +1 Def

Armor - 9 units

2x PzIIIF - one with +1 Init, one with +1 Def
2x Pz IVD - +2 Atk/Def/Spot (uber) and one with +1 Def
1x Samua S35
1x Matilda II
1x Char B
1x SE PzIIIF - +1 Spot
1x SE Pz IVD - +1 Def(filled the hole on the squish factor)

2x 8Rad (the cap-takers who speed the entire process up... don't know what I would do without them)

3x PzJagar - one w/+1 Def, one w/+3 Def, one clean

Artillery - 8 units

4x 105mm w/T - one captured, one w/+1 Atk, one w/+1 Def(he is GONE, just earned it in Dijon and pissed me off), two clean
1x 150mm w/HT
3x Sturmpanzer - one with +1 Range, two clean

AAA

1x 88mm
1x 7/1

Aircraft
Fighters - 6 Units

6x Me109e - one +3 Atk, one +2 Atk, one +2 Def, one uber Atk/Def/Init - I REALLY like my fighter force.

Bombers - 9 Units

3x Stuka - Rudel and two rookies
4x Me110 - one uber +1Atk/+6 Init, one +1 Init, two clean
2x He111

I need another 88mm FlaK and a new 105mm for sure. The 88 will have to wait, as it would be useless against the Maginot Line and all the forts the briefing is warning me about. As always, I am open to suggestions and advice.

The Maginot Line is the chance for my Fallschirms to shine. "Fortkiller"! Heroes are coming for sure! Those three Amigos are going to sweep the map. They will take a little walk, with arty and level bomber support.

[goose_2]

That is a somewhat strong army, a little sad to see all of those +1 Defensive 1st heroes, but oh well...Defensive heroes make good StuG3B's, so does +1 Range...something to consider

Nice Fighter Force

I highly recommend acquiring a +1 Movement 88 they are boss for a long time on the battlefield.