Best Infantry Unit discussion

[shawkhan2]

Well, Goose, I have not progressed as far as you have in your campaign. My Manstein playthrough is not perfectly compatible with yours as I use reform units and limited dice options.
In order to make the scenarios newer to me, I use Nikivdd's truly excellent campaign variations which make the game a bit harder as well as his equipment files which give the Kradschutzen the recon movement. I play with a self-imposed prohibition to not use the Sturmpanzer in the game as no unit like that existed in 1939/40.

To take two battles in which you accepted marginal victories for example:
At Piatek, I believe the key was to use an '88 to hold the central victory hex next to the river. In other places I used units with the recon move to immediately counterattack any unit taking a river victory hex. In the air, I had 2 fighters and two 110s.
At Modlin, as already explained, I used 3 strategic bombers to strip ammunition and suppress units and forts/strongpoints.
Oleh Dir circled to one side of the Modlin position and approached a suppressed fort and depleted Polish armor.
To the right, I moved a substantial force of armor and artillery/infantry. Using proper timing, I simultaneously assaulted both forts, taking moderate casualties. If you compare prestige points for each of us, I am not doing that badly.
I will try to attach the relevant replays so you might see the battles fought. I am particularly proud of Modlin.

[goose_2]

Just wow! I may try to download so I can watch but my computer is notoriously wonky with that kind of thing.
I would be very interested and eager to watch both.

But the one that leaves me the most perplexed is how you did the very first scenario. If you have a replay of that I would very much be interested in seeing that as well. Please.

Where are you at?

I just finished 42 this weekend...I did not do Tatsanskaya, and I am super glad as watching Night Phoenix's playthrough gives me heart ache...

[shawkhan2]

Well, make me perfectly clear that Decisive victories at this level are incredibly hard. About half of them I have had to replay in order to get them.
I may have posted my first playthrough of Piatek rather than the 'keeper' I played in order to minimize my losses and maximize prestige so I will post that as well as the Poznan playthrough requested by Goose.

[goose_2]

Just incredible.

I watched the Modlin and Piatek replay and have to say, just incredible.

He finished Modlin 2 rounds earlier.

I see that the Pz2c's and Kradschutzen have recon movement, which I did not have...still his defense of Piatek was brilliant, and he finished Modlin 2 turns early. Just amazing.


I highly recommend watching, studying and applying these tactics, especially if you are using the mod he uses.

There is also a tank hero I do not have as well as a Polish arty before Poland. Neat mod.

[goose_2]

Unfortunately the Poznan replay was unable to play for me...that was the one I was wanting to see most, as I was left with one place to take and it was way too overpowered for me to even attempt.

[goose_2]

Just watched the Spoils of War replay, Rough Round for our friend, as he lost 4 units, but still ended up with the Decisive Victory.

You might want to try that again as losing 4 units is very costly and there is no shame in retrying for better results, and better heroes.

[shawkhan2]

The Spoils of War battle was nearly impossible to win decisively. As my objective in this campaign is to simply get decisive victories, this was about the best I could manage. From a prestige point of view, it would of course have been better to accept the marginal victory. Fighting with nikivdd's augmented OOB for the Russians meant I was fighting top of the line (for 1939) Russian forces at 15 strength, complete with an augmented Russian airforce, which made survival for my spearheads very difficult.
Even T-26s and T-28s are dangerous to Pz IIcs in this situation.
I am currently about to start Sedan, and yes, I have achieved Decisive victory in every battle so far. My current prestige is at right around 10k, not great but good enough to continue.
I hope to achieve all Decisive victories until some time in 1943. Doing that will require overstrengthing and I doubt my prestige will hold up.
If anyone has a battle they would like to see, post here and I will provide it if I can.
If anyone can achieve a better result for Spoils of War with these handicaps please post it.
Thank you all for viewing and for your good wishes.

[goose_2]

Yes, yes, yes...please shoot me like before Albert Canal, and The Hague, and Sedan once finished. These were all extremely difficult, in my playthrough. I especially want to see how you did Albert Canal as that one specifically gave me the biggest head ache.

Thanks for this awesome chance to watch another master at work

[shawkhan2]

The Albert Canal battle at Manstein is an embarrassment of riches. It is necessary to not be seduced by all the available non-essential victory hexes if you want the decisive victory. Basically, stay near the river(canal) and advance up it to the city.
The Hague is a rescue. It is necessary to evacuate as many of the FSJ as possible. Put them on air transports and move them to safety.
The only way I found to relieve the FSJ in the central airfield before they are annihilated is to attack the strongpoint and connect with your oncoming ground forces coming straight through the city.
Sedan was a tricky battle. You need the right mix of forces. I value mobility when there is a road system so used Oleh Dir and Kradschutzen to raise havoc in the North while assembling my artillery before Sedan for the main assault. 88s I found useful both for dealing with strongpoints and the numerous airpower you must face. Did this one with just four armor. This battle might be easier if you use the Sturmpanzer artillery. I will not use them but you can launch the main assault a turn earlier if you do.
Currently I am attempting Mauberge. Not much time in this one to achieve the decisive victory.

[hurly]

I think it would be a good idea to post all your Manstein replays in the correct order in the AAR section for those who are interested, so they can pick out what they want to see.

Here in this thread and randomly attached your great effort might get lost.
That would be a shame as there are some interesting approaches to learn from in there.

Just remember you can only attach 3 files per post, but you can put in as many links as you like.

So just copy the links and make a nice download list in the AAR section.

I would recommend 1 list for each gc year

[goose_2]

I think it would be a good idea to post all your Manstein replays in the correct order in the AAR section for those who are interested, so they can pick out what they want to see.

Here in this thread and randomly attached your great effort might get lost.
That would be a shame as there are some interesting approaches to learn from in there.

Just remember you can only attach 3 files per post, but you can put in as many links as you like.

So just copy the links and make a nice download list in the AAR section.

I would recommend 1 list for each gc year

I have to agree with my buddy Hurly. I have yet to watch the latest playthroughs uploaded here, plan is to watch this weekend, but I am positive based on the feedback and interest I have had in my Manstein run, which does not have your success rate, there would be a nice group of people who would love to follow your exploits on the AAR side of things.

I am still working up time to provide some final thoughts and advice for my infantry upgrades.

Stay tuned

[goose_2]

Ok my thoughts on my upgrades for 43.

Kradschutzen will remain, but used sparingly and mostly in their recon role and finish off weak units.

Grenadier will remain and may consider converting 1 or 2 of the Gebirsjaeger based on the feedback.

Pioniere will remain as is...I was surprised to see so many people agree with me that these are not as good as they appear.

Gebirsjaeger ok +3 Att, +2 Att, +1 Att, +1 Initiative, Oleh Dir, Helmut Weirnsberger, and +3 Def

Based on the feedback I am going to convert 2 to Regular Infantry and maybe 1 to a Grenadier...which ones? Thoughts?

I am thinking Helmut Weirnsberger and +3 Def to Regular Infantry...and +3 Att to a Grenadier.

Thoughts

[shawkhan2]

For what it is worth:
Kradschutzen are great spearhead units, in good weather and with a road network. When they have recon movement, they replace armored cars. Any spotting hero just makes them better.
Pionieres are almost useless unless you have some with initiative heroes which would help reduce the casualties they suffer. In battles with extensive minefields they are priceless however, but green pionieres work just as well as veterans.
Falschirmjaegers I would recommend using instead of pionieres. With their greater initiative and possessing the bunker busting ability as well as three movement there should be no question that they are much superior to pionieres.
Gebirgsjaegers are my personal favorite. I tend to keep them even when they have movement heroes.
I currently have no Grenadiers in my present playthrough as their hard attack and slower movement are a poor fit for my playing style. When the improved Grenadiers become available, any infantry with a movement hero is liable to become a Grenadier.
Sometimes I will use a Bridge engineer but have none in my current playthrough.
Regular infantry is just.....regular. They do not excel at anything but are still a good general purpose unit. I personally prefer the mountaineers until I need to provide transport for larger maps in Russia.

[captainjack]

Pioniere will remain as is...I was surprised to see so many people agree with me that these are not as good as they appear.

Earlier on I use them for bunker and trench clearance (eg when starting at 6+ entrenchment). Apply strategic bomber and one or two artillery to get most or all strength suppressed. Add Pioneers. Immunity to rugged defence on 4+ entrenchment is useful. The high suppression means that low initiative has little impact. Finish off with higher initiative standard unit.

They typically work as a pair, either two pioneers or one pio and one bridgie (for defended river crossings) with a pair of 105mm guns.

Once in Russia, they usually come out only for minefields.

[rubyjuno]

For what it is worth:

I currently have no Grenadiers in my present playthrough as their hard attack and slower movement are a poor fit for my playing style.

Great point by shawkhan2 - in a lot of cases, the units that work best depend on your playing style. He also claims that Pioneers are "almost useless" which proves his point as I don't find them useless at all. I'm currently playing the GC on FM level and I've just had my 16th straight DV with half of my infantry being Pioneers. I know I'm not on the most difficult part of the GC yet, but they weren't all easy DVs. When I need to clear a city quickly without bombarding the entrenchment out of defending units, Pioneers are great. Whatever units you choose, it all comes down to working out how to use them most effectively in combination with other units to suit how you want to play.

What a brilliant game to still be promoting discussions like this after all these years, and thanks to Goose for starting this fascinating thread

[goose_2]

Thanks for the accolades. It seems there are a lot more fans of Gebirsjaegers other than just me.

I thought most people used Pioniere's, but I always found mine taking more damage than other units, and for some reason my Geb's were not...so...

I watched Shawkhan2's playthrough of The Hague, He played it much smarter than I and showed me how to concentrate all of your forces mostly on one area to achieve an overwhelming force that you can push through an inferior force. Instead of my press everywhere style. I am watching his Sedan and he is spreading out more in this one but avoids using Fallschimjaeger and is showing me how to push through Sedan successfully without too much trouble. (He of course is using Nico's mod's which help use Kradschutzen with recon movement and StuG3B's in 40 a whole year earlier than in the normal units available.)

It is fun to watch and I wish he was closer to where I am as I would love to see him take on 43, where he thinks he will run out of steam,..I am not so sure, but after watching Night Phoenix's assault on Kharkov 43, I feel ready to have a go at it, hopefully by next weekend.

I may post my thoughts on my army I am importing into 43 as I feel that is a critical year in terms of upgrades and future thoughts/plans for the bleak years of 44 and 45...

Stay Tuned...

[goose_2]

I finished watching Sedan, and I have to say I am impressed with shawkhan2's ability to concentrate forces in an effective way to breakthrough difficult areas with seeming ease as he pushes through and overwhelms an area brilliantly, it really shows me that Decisive Victory's are possible where I thought they would be too costly, he might not be building as diverse a unit base I am building and I think that will bite him in the butt in the latter years of the war as losses become inevitable.

I really hopes he opens up a posting on the AAR side of this forum and continues to update us on his progress. I know I am rooting for him and highly enjoy watching the replays he has sent me.

He is up their with the masters, now if I could just get him to play multiplayer the real challenge of Panzer Corps.

[shawkhan2]

Goose is doing an excellent job of writing AARs at the Manstein (read impossible) level. I think there is little point in adding another almost identical AAR showing that even Manstein is playable, although incredibly difficult.
Nikivdd's campaign changes make PC into a Manstein+ for difficulty. He has added extra units, especially lots of air, and armor like the T-28 which can obliterate an infantry unit quite easily.
As I am not trying to play out the entire campaign, which I do not think is possible, I am merely trying to achieve an unbroken string of decisive victories as long as possible. I am currently at Ostrov on the road to Leningrad, and the next 'impossible' decisive victory I will definitely post will be a decisive victory at Moscow....if I can.
Goose has done quite well in 1941, and that is the next marginal victory he was forced to accept.
If someone requests an AAR of some other battle, I would be happy to post it.
On an alternate note, I have been exploring using Falschirmjaegers whenever possible. The trick to not getting them killed is to never drop them into combat w/o hope of almost immediate relief. I have found them most useful in Russia when used to capture undefended airfields, as at Minsk and Smolensk. They make excellent assault troops as well when backed up by artillery. With higher initiative, they take fewer casualties than pionieres. I still do not have any pionieres in my core, but will have to remedy that before the minefield dense battlefields of Kursk.
Currently, I am playing three Grenadiers with movement heroes. Too cheap to give them halftracks, they make do with trucks, at least until bad weather makes HTs a better deal.
Since I play with reform units I do not need as many units as Goose. If a unit has good heroes, it is 'immortal'. 50 units is enough to see me through 1943, although I will be adding mobile AA sometime in 1942.
I have had lousy luck getting SE tanks. I have two while Goose is sailing along with four in 1941. Luck is nice to have. Goose complains about lack of prestige but is currently about 2-3000 points ahead of me. I cannot seem to break the habit of elite replacements, although I am working at it. Three stars is just so nice to have.
Watching Goose's AARs has taught me to love Flammpanzers, for the first time. I now have three of the little dickens and it is just great fun to watch them barbecue enemy soft units.
I am happy to share what little I know, so ask if you have any questions about this Glorious Quest.

[codman]

[quote="shawkhan2"
Watching Goose's AARs has taught me to love Flammpanzers, for the first time. I now have three of the little dickens and it is just great fun to watch them barbecue enemy soft units.

"barbecue enemy soft units", why is that phrase soooo appealing!!! Somehow I always end up converting them to other units later in the campaign as the Allied armor gets tougher. Most equipment files do not have the PzIII upgrade which might allow them to be slightly tougher but I also rarely keep any PzIIIn's. There is another thread about Berlin 45 and perhaps the Flammpanzer's (on a narrow front) backed up by artillery would flare better against the waves of Soviet infantry...

[goose_2]

[quote="shawkhan2"
Watching Goose's AARs has taught me to love Flammpanzers, for the first time. I now have three of the little dickens and it is just great fun to watch them barbecue enemy soft units.

"barbecue enemy soft units", why is that phrase soooo appealing!!! Somehow I always end up converting them to other units later in the campaign as the Allied armor gets tougher. Most equipment files do not have the PzIII upgrade which might allow them to be slightly tougher but I also rarely keep any PzIIIn's. There is another thread about Berlin 45 and perhaps the Flammpanzer's (on a narrow front) backed up by artillery would flare better against the waves of Soviet infantry...

That is my hope, I do not think I will be keeping Heinz Rondorf in a Flamm, but my other 2...Oh Yeah! Light it Up!!!

About SE Tanks...sell all SE inf you get, starting in Norway.