New Difficulty Level for Grand Campaign

[goose_2]

This is great stuff Goose2. All that agonising about which units will actually add something and whether an 88 is more useful than an extra unit. It will be interesting to see how far you get from a combination of careful planning and sheer determination.

I am glad you are enjoying the pain and torture I am subjecting myself to.

I am realizing what I enjoy so much about the early campaign.
Less units, less enemies, quicker more dynamic play.

You are building to something instead of settling for something. So with that said I again busted through Kampinoska Forest last night, all within a night. Fairly straightforward and was able to use units as intended although some counter attacks were a little unexpected and scary.

The reason why I am doing this playthrough/challenge is because I wanted to create something that captured the essence of the difficulty of the war as felt by the people conducting the battle. I often play this game where I reach a point where the games realism loses it's effect.

All of a sudden I find myself in 1944 Eastern Campaign with more prestige than I need fielding an army that Germany never had available facing forces that have no chance against my experienced forces. (Don't get me wrong the scenarios are still hard and playing on Manstein still has a lot of challenges, that make me extremely worried about what I will face in 1945.) But I have 7 SE King Tigers with almost all with 5 stars of experience that still dominate the Battlefield. That never occurred in reality.

So now I have tried to create a Campaign that makes me have to wrestle with problems that the initial game does not create.
Stars of experience are extremely important, especially for your front line grunts. (Firing first and devastatingly so is very, very important.)
I will not be able to afford the best equipment, overstrengthened equipment, or all of the equipment I would like.
Battles are extremely costly and have me considering more thoughts than previously considered, that is why I am enjoying the deep dive into game mechanics going on on the forum, but still leaves me perplexed.

So now I created a Campaign, where I desire to get Decisive Victory's in the first 3 years, at least as much as I am able.
But as the years get into 42-45 I want the idea of getting Decisive, or even Marginal Victories begin to slip through my fingers, making those battles where I have to get at least a Marginal even more challenging/enjoyable.

For example. I am in Guderian Blind playthrough 45 West, the first time I played the 1st mission I played incorrectly lost the scenario and rethought and replayed the battle and garnered a Decisive Victory. (That kind of struggle is very enjoyable to me.) I like being challenged.
Right now I am facing Bastogne Assault feeling extremely trepidatious on how to tackle. Map is so large and so many areas to deploy that it will take a while to attempt a blind through any time soon.

So now I have a series of questions around my new dilemmas that I would like to hear interested parties to share their thoughts on before I attempt Modlin.

That will be my next post.

[goose_2]

I am starting Modlin with 409 prestige...It will be a while before I am ready to tackle that beast because I want to do a lot of thinking and watching other you tubers tackle those forts and how they handled it.

Braccada recently played it blind and opted for the Marginal on his Rommel playthrough. (I do not want to mimic that as it is too easy and I want to get more kills and prestige/experience.)

Other players have content that shows Decisive so I will pay close attention and try for something similar. (I see Lt. Joker aka KeldorKatarn has just uploaded his live playthrough today...This will be part of my research)

This brings me to my new list of questions and this is where I need your help and will seriously wait until I get some feedback before I make a decision.

Questions:


1) Should I sell my First Fighter?
2 units received their 1st heroes last scenario. Tac Bomber +3 Att This is a for sure keeper. (Also makes the need for another Tac Bomber less important)
But my First Fighter received a +1 Def 1st Hero. (The only thing worse would have been +1 Movement)
He has 1 star experience and only 113 kills. But my 2nd Fighter that I bought in Piatek already has a Star of experience.
I do not need 2 Fighter's in Modlin, so I could just sell it so I could have enough prestige to maintain my experience on my other units, and buy a Fighter either in Warsaw or Spoils of War. Thoughts?


2) Strat Bombers which one, or 2 should I buy?
This is the new idea that has got me flummoxed on a whole other level. Let me parse this out.
Henkel 300 prestige beast
In my mind based on the upgrade path and the stats the Henkel is the absolute best bang for the buck. It has the ultimate best Strat Bomber to upgrade to with large attack/defense value, large amount of ammo and large amount of fuel. (So why would this even be a question, upgrade to the Henkel)
Hear me out...hear me out.
Dornier 226 prestige
Extremely affordable, able to buy 2 at very little cost, but would fulfil the role of Strat Bomber very nicely. First Strat that can be upgraded.
Here is something to consider...all strat bombers number of kills is extremely limited, as unless there are ships to hit there is not much to kill. (This is not the case with my +4 Attack Henkel I have with Manstein. I use it every battle, and it garners around 30-50 kills every scenario, and may actually receive a 3rd hero before the Manstein Campaign is all said and done.)
But their primary purpose is to drain ammo, suppress units, and remove entrenchment. A 15 Strength Strat will drain all units down to 1 Strength. This is extremely helpful in latter years and something to consider when utilizing Strategy for these incredible units.
So an overstrengthened Dornier would be a lot cheaper and attainable than an overstrengthened Henkel.
So if I am using it for it's primary purpose, a Dornier's appeal starts to shine forth.
It's drawbacks are numerous though. Very limited fuel capacity, very limited attack or defense capabilities.

So what are your thoughts on what I present for strat bombers...maybe I should make a separate post.


3) What should I buy with my prestige?
If I sell the Fighter and wait to buy a replacement Fighter. I have more prestige to spend, so could purchase 2 Strat's, but also could buy another recon, or 2 artillery as my artillery are maxing out in experience. I still would like to build up additional artillery to play with but maybe I should stick with the 4 I have. retaining Experience is extremely important, and many units are at 1 star or close, such as my 3.7cm Pak that is left with 3 Str. Very important to use Elite Replacements, as experienced AT's are extremely important later in war. (Very hard to develop though.) What thoughts are there with what I should buy?


4) What is the thinking behind attempting a Decisive verses a Marginal on Modlin?
I am open to advice on thoughts behind each approach to weigh my options.


5) Thoughts behind Fallschimjaeger?
I usually try and buy 2 Fallschimjaeger in Norway to help with those scenarios, but they always end up getting killed in latter years, I would like to avoid that, but also wanted to try the idea of dropping 3 or 4 along with 75mm arty into deep enemy territory. That sounds fun and exciting but much too dangerous on this type of playthrough.



That is all I can think of right now, and a good place to start the conversation.

I really want some opinions and have really been expanding my mind with some of the various podcasts out there from Jordan Peterson.
I find his level of deep thinking impacting my thoughts on everything in life and am enjoying the experience.

Thanks for being willing to open up your thoughts with me and the forum.
Blessings, and as always...Stay Lutheran My Friends.

[captainjack]

Fighter:
Sell it. The Polish fighters are feeble, so you can afford to train up a new one.

Strat bomber.
A tough one.
The HE177 is very good, but tthen again the Do217 is almost as good and is available in 41 but I doubt you have enough prestige to keep a strat bomber in reserve unless you have a very good reason. However, strat bombers gain experience faster than any other unit so for teh moment you could use a strat bomber as and when you need one, and then sell for the prestige.

Option A.
Use and discard Do17 and He111 until Ju88 is available. Buy Ju88 and keep it.

Option B
Use Do17 and keep it (trying not to think bad thoughts about whoever saddled it with such short range) until you can field a 2 or 3* Do217 in June 41.

Option C
Use Do17 until at 1 or 2*. If you can afford to keep it, use and discard He111 where needed until Do217 becomes available.

FJs
Use sparingly - very vulnerable in the air, while the low defence is potentially costly as they can take high casualties, especially when they run out of ammo. I have been successful with FJ in Dijon, Keramoti and Minsk 41, but otherwise I am more Arnhem than Eben Emael.

Modlin - Not that difficult but DV can be costly unless you can get rid of the Modlin AA early enough to strip ammof from the train and the fortresses.

[ErissN6]

1) Should I sell my First Fighter?
2) Strat Bombers which one, or 2 should I buy?
4) What is the thinking behind attempting a Decisive verses a Marginal on Modlin?
5) Thoughts behind Fallschimjaeger?

Never sell (but be very wary when buying).
Moreover keep your fighters if you buy Paratroopers, for they have to be protected and 1st need very good afar reco so you don't send them to death.
Paratroopers should almost always be used as simple infantry, to train them, then only send them away when they are full trained 15 strenght, and only if they are actually needed far if you want a decisive victory.
StratBombers often must strike a well defended objective, even where fighters can't protect it for they would be easily destroyed by AA guns, so I buy only the best defense SBomber. If you buy 2, however you still need more fighters to protect them.
At worst, if you have air superiority, your fighters can become reco or finishers destroying fleeing defenders.

[captainjack]

ErissN6
I'd normally agree with your suggestions but Goose2 is playing with almost no prestige so they are probably too expensive.

However, I play at much easier levels and might try your para strategy next time, though with my para skills this is likely to be a bit brutal and unpleasant.

[goose_2]

Ok Quick Update.

I hope to be able to type up my latest AAR about Kampinoska Forest playthrough some time tomorrow, maybe not sure, work is dicey at the present and my lunches are minimal.

I have Thursday and Friday off to watch the kiddo's while my wife will be at a Homeschool conference.
I won't be able to just play and play, but I will have evenings and early mornings free to hopefully set up Round 6 for the Tournament, and to get some more of these missions under my belt.

So, the plan will be to do Modlin and maybe Warsaw this weekend. Hesitant to start Vilna after the pain of Minsk 44 this weekend, but if Night Phoenix get's to his posts of that mission, may find that doable as well...still avoiding Bastogne Assault Blindthrough...not sure when I will attempt.

So about my thoughts on my questions:
1: The consensus has been heard and I agree selling the Fighter to try for better first hero is a must.

2: Buying 1 and using Henkel, as want the most bang for my buck, and thinking of Dunkirk I want to be able to bomb ships with 2 Henkels.

3: This is what I intend to buy with my extra 410 prestige from sale of fighter. Henkel, recon, 1 10.5cm arty w truck. Thinking I will retain my arty's at 2 10.5 cm 's and 2 7.5cm's. Retain experience of all units with at least 1 star or ones that are close.

4: I am still considering whether or not to try for the Decisive, still watching a bunch of other peoples attempts on you tube and trying to get huckc to send me his replay of his Decisive on Modlin on Manstein so I can gain much needed inspiration. Might end up going for the Marginal as Decisive may just be too costly at this level.

5: No, Fallschimjaeger...need units that will minimize damage taken and maximize effectiveness, so with that said...will opt for my typical Gebirsjaeger starter infantry and upgrade accordingly from their. Meaning their first hero changes their upgraded direction.

Those are my thoughts at this point.

Thanks for sharing your thoughts and encouragements.

[NightPhoenix]

Alright, i'm a bit late to the party, but here are my 2 cents.

1: I think you are right in selling the fighter, but only this one. Normally it would take you a lot longer to get a hero on these units. +1 def is pretty bad, but i actually think you can't go wrong on your fighters. Later on you will get 3/4 insane fighter+hero that have stats on 1 hero that surpass anything you can get normally. Those are all you will need for the rest of the campaign.

2: I don't really think you can go wrong with the strategic bombers, i enjoyed the He177 in the West due to the large amount of Naval units. I would think the ju188a or even the ju88 will serve you better on the Eastern front as it's a great all rounder, and cheaper so it keeps the soft cap low. I know it would be difficult, but you need all the prestige you can get, so any opportunity to cut on unit cost might be useful. Especially because the difference in these two bombers isn't that big.

3: I'd really upgrade those 7.5's to 10.5, but that's just me. The extra +1 range i find especially useful. I'd even wait off on buying the strategic bomber for it, and 4: just going for a marginal on Modlin fortress and buying the strategic afterwards.

4: Fallshirmjaeger are really only interesting for their 6 soft attack i think, as dropping them behind enemy lines without arty support is just too costly, and you don't really need that ability anyways. I would think it's awesome to have at least an elite fallshirmjaeger or 2, but i would hardly call them neccessary.

Keep fighting the tough fight!

[hugh2711]

2 comments
I would not bother trying for a DV in Modlin At ANY level. Although it certainly can be done the losses are horrendous. But I would prolong it to the last turn and use it to build up experience on my air force by strafing for the fighters and other targets for my strat bomber. I would specifically have more fighters than (none) needed for the scenario to give experience by strafing as to do the MV is so easy (by turn 5 without ANY losses!).

For the strat bomber although I would normally go straight for the heinkel but you really want one that will take such a big bite out of a capital ship that it can be finished off by ANY air unit, even recon rudel . It would be interesting to see side by side comparison graphs of the different bombers performance. The problem with start bombers is they have to be overstrengthed to get really good efficiency. I have never used a dornier.

Why on earth would you keep 7.5's and not put them straight to 10.5?

Fallshirmaegers; these I find as the grand campaign goes on to later stages they are more useful than my very experienced and heroed pioneres. I suppose because of the high initiative and the extra movement.

[bravouser]

I will try to bring my notes tom so I can type up AAR.

[goose_2]

I will try to bring my notes tom so I can type up AAR.

Curious to see what this is?

Completed Modlin and Warsaw this weekend and...
Next Spoils of War with 674 prestige.
My thinking is to buy 3 new units for Spoils, 1 recon, 1 new arty, 1 new 3.7cm Pak.
Spoils can be a little tricky and I probably should not be bringing new units in on this map, but I want to build up more forces for the long haul, and I am really hoping to utilize recons differently than I have in the past so I can create traps and surround, suppress, surrender more readily. My greatest concern is my use of 3.7cm Pak’s they are very, very fragile, but also very cheap, so hopefully I can have 2 of them at least at 1 star. Experienced Anti-tanks are so important in later war years.

Let me know your thoughts as will not be playing Spoils until this weekend.

[goose_2]

Well I busted through Spoils of War this weekend, but could not find time to finish Bastogne Assault yet, that will take some time...

I will not comment about multiplayer issues and will simply let the admin folks take care of that stuff...I will simply say...nope on second thought, I will say nothing...

Anyway,

Spoils actually was not too difficult, I got a nice Rugged Defense when needed against the KV-2, and not too bad of damage to my units. Only a single hero awarded. +1 Att to one of my artillery, I will maintain it and will probably use it, but not going to be a favorite, probably.

I only purchased a Sturmpanzer as saving prestige to buy more versatile recon in Norway as well as more versatile Panzerjaeger instead of another 3.7cm Pak.
I am not going to build up anti tanks, it is such a struggle, but doing what I can when I can.

My hope is that I can use the 809 I now have in Oslo to purchase a new Gebirsjaeger, Sturmpanzer, Panzerjaeger, Recon.

I will have plenty prestige to work with as I was also awarded an SE Gebirsjaeger with half track that I will sell as awaiting/hoping for Panzer's.

Norway is super easy, and I am sure enjoying Lt. Joker's and Braccada's playthrough.

I am seeing a ton of English versions of the Grand Campaign started and way too many to keep track of and comment on but I am enjoying all the available content.

Just wishing I could create something.

[huckc]

Well I busted through Spoils of War this weekend, but could not find time to finish Bastogne Assault yet, that will take some time...

Were you able to get a DV in Eindhoven on Guderian?

Some random notes:

1) Getting a DV in Modlin is actually pretty cheap and easy if you keep Oleh Dir as a mountain unit and using him to flank along the unorthodox southwestern route. I got one on Manstein with relatively little losses and no mid-scenario replacements using this tactic.

2) Fallschirmjäger can be effective but you need to know exactly where to drop them. For most scenarios however they're not anywhere close to optimal, taking up vital deployment slots, but are fun and great for the soft cap.

[goose_2]

Well I busted through Spoils of War this weekend, but could not find time to finish Bastogne Assault yet, that will take some time...

Were you able to get a DV in Eindhoven on Guderian?

Some random notes:

1) Getting a DV in Modlin is actually pretty cheap and easy if you keep Oleh Dir as a mountain unit and using him to flank along the unorthodox southwestern route. I got one on Manstein with relatively little losses and no mid-scenario replacements using this tactic.

2) Fallschirmjäger can be effective but you need to know exactly where to drop them. For most scenarios however they're not anywhere close to optimal, taking up vital deployment slots, but are fun and great for the soft cap.

Were you able to get a DV in Eindhoven on Guderian? yes, I might actually lose Bastogne Assault, not just get Marginal, I am getting my A** handed to me, I have 8 or 9 more rounds, but it does not look/nor feel good...



Decisive on Modlin?
How did you do it?
I understand taking that sneaky SW Corner, but you have to destroy both Forts. That Eastern Fort is a Monster, how did you take it out without taking serious damage?

Fallschimjaeger...nope...I am just no good with them. I want to be, but I am not going to even try at my new difficulty level.
Nope sticking to my starting guys and buying Gebirsjaeger updating them to only different units based on their first heroes, +1 spotting Kradschutzen, +1 Movement Pioniere, the rest will be an even disposition once 43 Campaign is started.

That is the plan at the present

[huckc]

Decisive on Modlin?
How did you do it?
I understand taking that sneaky SW Corner, but you have to destroy both Forts. That Eastern Fort is a Monster, how did you take it out without taking serious damage?

I brought a tank along with Oleh in the SW that drew fire from at least some of the fortresses, perhaps including the one in the east which was just barely in range.

This screenshot in my AAR shows the SW tank taking a shot from "Death" the armored train.

e: Looking back I did take a decent amount of damage to most of my tanks. 12 strength down to 8 or 9 typically, but the extra points for the DV and the 300 points for taking all the flags in range of the forts was probably worth it from a prestige standpoint.

[goose_2]

Decisive on Modlin?
How did you do it?
I understand taking that sneaky SW Corner, but you have to destroy both Forts. That Eastern Fort is a Monster, how did you take it out without taking serious damage?

I brought a tank along with Oleh in the SW that drew fire from at least some of the fortresses, perhaps including the one in the east which was just barely in range.

This screenshot in my AAR shows the SW tank taking a shot from "Death" the armored train.

e: Looking back I did take a decent amount of damage to most of my tanks. 12 strength down to 8 or 9 typically, but the extra points for the DV and the 300 points for taking all the flags in range of the forts was probably worth it from a prestige standpoint.

That screen shot tells it all...Braccada pay attention...Huckc did an amazing amount of creativity by avoiding the front and hit the fort from the flanks brilliant, just brilliant.

Quick Update for me before I go to bed.

I left the last 8 rounds of Bastogne Assault for another time as I was frustrated at accepting a loss, especially since I lost a 4 star Gebirsjaeger. Ack!

Well that rest helped a lot because I played 2 more rounds and than waited another couple of days when it dawned on me...I have 6 V Rockets I did not deploy thinking I would use later, well I used them to help dig out Bastogne, that did it. I cracked that nut open like a walnut with the help of those rockets, artillery and AK in the Flamm!

I have 4 rounds left and 3 more Primary Objectives to seize for the Decisive Victory. I have lost 6 units in this incredibly difficult battle, but I believe I will be able to push through for the Decisive Victory.

It will be difficult, but I do not think impossible.

Bastogne Assault has been incredibly fun/frustration, ups and downs like I am playing a human player, very good time...If you have never gone West I highly recommend it.

The conclusion will have to wait though...I need to sleep on last 4 turns and will probably finish this weekend.

[huckc]

I left the last 8 rounds of Bastogne Assault for another time as I was frustrated at accepting a loss, especially since I lost a 4 star Gebirsjaeger. Ack!

Well that rest helped a lot because I played 2 more rounds and than waited another couple of days when it dawned on me...I have 6 V Rockets I did not deploy thinking I would use later, well I used them to help dig out Bastogne, that did it. I cracked that nut open like a walnut with the help of those rockets, artillery and AK in the Flamm!

I have 4 rounds left and 3 more Primary Objectives to seize for the Decisive Victory. I have lost 6 units in this incredibly difficult battle, but I believe I will be able to push through for the Decisive Victory.

It will be difficult, but I do not think impossible.

Bastogne Assault has been incredibly fun/frustration, ups and downs like I am playing a human player, very good time...If you have never gone West I highly recommend it.

The conclusion will have to wait though...I need to sleep on last 4 turns and will probably finish this weekend.

Yes those rockets are extremely helpful but also worth a ton of prestige, however if they weren't disbanded prior to starting the scenario then it's a use-or-lose situation.

I took a look at Bastogne Assault and it appears you can get a Marginal Victory by just capturing/holding all the victory hexes outside of Bastogne proper, while still getting you a ticket to Liege.

Liege I feel will be even harder on Guderian due to losing a hefty 28% of the normal amount turns on top of an already extremely difficult offensive scenario on frozen ground, and requires a DV or else dismissal. So perhaps best to conserve prestige in Bastogne Assault by only going for a cheap Marginal?

A few scenarios down the the line you can expect a nice windfall of prestige fighting the Soviets, but don't want to spoil things too much

[goose_2]

This weekend Daddy was able to get busy on some single player action.

I had a great deal of trouble sleeping because I got a massive sunburn taking my kids to the pool around noon for 2 hours in the hot sun with inadequate sunscreen...so if I can't sleep I play.

Anyway,
I busted through Oslo which I will be finishing up the type up soon. (Super Easy, barely an inconvenience.) Has to be one of the easiest scenarios in the entire Grand campaign and I barely had any units (except auxiliary ones) damaged.

Preparing for Lillehammer sometime either this week or weekend.

But I also finished Bastogne successfully so I will be able to take the Victory Path and Loss Path.
(I will probably be coming back to this in 2 or 3 weeks)

Bigger yet is I started Vilna on Manstein, and it has been going overall very well. (This scenario is one of the best made by the game as so many things to consider)
I followed similar layout as Night Phoenix with a few tweaks based on observing his playthrough.
Some interesting things to take note is their Fighter attacked my +2 Def FW-190A with 4 stars at Full Strength (10) 1 round. (-6 me -8 them, if I remember correctly)
The greater thing is that if they are no longer timid about attacking my Fighter's at Full Strength (10) this may mean I start losing Fighter's as more experienced Fighter's come out to play.

2nd: I have had to buy multiple in scenario Elite Replacements as my units get chewed up. This is ok and I am fully prepared to be doing this it just is happening at greater intervals than in the past. (This may mean I have hit my limit in prestige accumulation, not sure about this but it has occurred to me)

3rd: I did need to redo Turn 9 as my first time doing it I was way too aggressive and got my butt handed to me when they did their turn and overwhelmed the forces I thought were ready for their attack.

I am not sure I will finish this week or weekend, but will plug away a day or 2 at a time, as am able, but 30 rounds will take a while.


That is one of the aspects that has this game having me come back again and again as it is like a puzzle that you are never quite sure if you solved it in the best way possible so you want to try again and again to make it even more difficult to solve again and again.

Hope you are all enjoying the summer of gaming

Other than my sunburn very much enjoyed my Father's Day weekend

[braccada]

Limitations create creativity I like your low on prestige challenge, because using more different (and weaker) units is a lot of fun and the best moments usually are when you find out that the normal way of doing it does not work, you come up with something new and make it work

By the way goose, speaking of puzzles, I think I solved Modlin. At least in my first test run I got through with very minimal damage. There might be an even better solution involving Brückenpioniere, but the timing is already difficult and that adds one more element that needs perfect coordination. Moreover that is a more or less dead core slot, I like to bring units that actually fight and gain exp.

[goose_2]

Limitations create creativity I like your low on prestige challenge, because using more different (and weaker) units is a lot of fun and the best moments usually are when you find out that the normal way of doing it does not work, you come up with something new and make it work

By the way goose, speaking of puzzles, I think I solved Modlin. At least in my first test run I got through with very minimal damage. There might be an even better solution involving Brückenpioniere, but the timing is already difficult and that adds one more element that needs perfect coordination. Moreover that is a more or less dead core slot, I like to bring units that actually fight and gain exp.

BruckenPioniere? I have to see how that works, that just seems so creative, and you say creates minimum damage, that will be something to see. I have most units in Manstein with 4 or 5 stars, so experience does not become a problem, my newest problem is what to do with an airforce that becomes targeted by the enemy. As last night I had an enemy Fighter accidentally run into a 10 str Fighter in which I lost 1 Str, and then another Fighter tore into it for another 4. I am just unaccustomed to such brazeness from the enemy, and will need to consider how this effects my air force deployment.

[captainjack]

I have previously converted Oleh Dir to a bridgie and sent him south west to get behind the Modlin fortress. It worked quite well, though I usually send armour and faster troops down the eastern path to take out the AA units so the strategic bombers (2 or 3) can ammo strip Smierc and the fortresses as this is reliable.

I'm not sure how well this would work on your difficultly level as there are some quite big guns which can cause a lot of damage and some well entrenched units to clear out so you might find the replacements needed too costly.